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Phoenix this... Phoenix that...

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posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 11:40 PM
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Originally posted by Aliensun
reply to post by The Shrike
 


Oh, Shirke, up to the same old tricks of the debunker. I think I'll call you Carl Sagan junior. You focus on the least credible part of a situation--the government's explanation-- no less--for one evidently unrelated aspect and act like that nails it. Did you forget the many, many eyewitness accounts of people that actually had the large craft pass directly over their heads? Where they could actuall look up into the wells that contained the light sources? Or the tracking of the craft for over 90 miles? Naw! Why should you. That's not a debunker's job.

Again, you can't prove a negative. Why bother?


Huh! My comments didn't touch on the alleged "triangle", I commented on the lights that appeared and disappeared. Nevertheless, my comments on the alleged "triangle" are also negative 'cause I've seen the video showing the alleged "triangle" and it's ridiculous to think that what is shown is anything more than possibly military jets traveling in a chevron-shaped pattern. And the pattern is not tight.

You can believe all you want but I wasn't sold then and I'm certainly not sold now. Besides, I'm an excellent debunker.




posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 06:37 AM
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The whole Phoenix thing is as useful as the rendlesham and roswell "cases". All three are a good example of modern myth-making done by wishful and ignorant believers in fantasy.

I especially like how things in the stories have changed in order for the believers to hold on to ignorance. Like no man!!!! The Military let off flares to hide the fact of the realz UFO doodz!!!!!!. Sad, just sad.

Odd that in this day and age given the CHEAP and advanced technology that is in the hands of even the poorest and most ignorant people that we haven't had something concrete by now....yeah, odd that. Must be a conspiracy. Government agents posting utter bs to keep the myth alive so they hide the truth.....no wait, that is ignorant. The government used to spread bs to keep the myth alive, but now ignorant people do it for them at no cost, and actually believe it. The government couldn't wish for more!!!!



posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 08:00 AM
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Originally posted by MainLineThis
The whole Phoenix thing is as useful as the rendlesham and roswell "cases". All three are a good example of modern myth-making done by wishful and ignorant believers in fantasy.

I especially like how things in the stories have changed in order for the believers to hold on to ignorance. Like no man!!!! The Military let off flares to hide the fact of the realz UFO doodz!!!!!!. Sad, just sad.


What myth would that be with regards to Phoenix?

The UFO flyover reports were in conflict with the timing and the location of the flares, which remained in one location until they burned out. This would indicate that the "Phoenix Lights" were independent from the boomerang UFO sightings that were reported along a path over AZ by multiple eyewitnesses, including the then governor. Of course you can dismiss everything with "they are just a bunch of wishful and ignorant believers in fantasy", but then what is the point of even participating in the thread?

Perhaps you are just under the assumption that anyone who claims to have seen a UFO believes it to have been extra-terrestrial in origin, which is for some reason in conflict with your personal convictions. That's fine, but that was not a leap of logic taken by the eyewitnesses I've seen interviewed, who simply don't know what it was... only that it wasn't what was filmed over Phoenix [flares]. In the absence of any decent footage we are left with qualified eyewitness testimony... not proof of anything, but it's more than nothing. Certainly doesn't rise to the level of "ignorant belief in fantasy". There are PLENTY of threads here far more deserving of your ire which are exactly that.

Rendlesham? No idea. Seems something happened, but the story has taken on a life of its own. Nick Pope and Col. Charles Halt seem to have contracted the UFO disease, which only adds turbidity to the events surrounding the nights of the sightings. Creative interpretation of "alien hieroglyphs" and decoded binary messages are among the current embellishments.

Roswell? Yeah, I'll go along with that being the best example of UFO myth making extant. Seems everyone has added their own personal chapter to the canon. Saw a show not too long ago that had one of the soldiers that actually participated in the "wreckage recovery". According to him they formed a line and walked the field picking up everything in their field of view and placing it in their shoulder bag. A little sparse and flimsy for the remains of an extraterrestrial craft I'm thinking... but about perfect for a weather balloon with radar target train. This is from a guy that was there. Sadly he died shortly after the show was aired.
edit on 14-2-2012 by draknoir2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by draknoir2
 


I apologize for your inability to understand that what you "investigate" online is clouded by moronic idiots and misconstrued facts by ignorant fools. Yeah, sure. The internet told you that the two were separate incidents. Unfortunately, the internet is filled with friggin' idiots that couldn't describe everyday events much less something as "fantastic" as the allege "Phoenix lights"

Having been there myself, and witnessing everything, I can say that what I read in the coming weeks, months and years regarding this "event" makes me puke, especially when it comes from internet cheerleaders like you. As a matter of fact, to admit my own ignorance, the mundane events I witnessed that night I had no idea would be taken out of context by Joe six pack (i.e. the modern internet idiot). I would have paid more attention if I thought that the ignorance of the modern age would have blown this into something it is not. I learned my lesson then.

Being a first hand witness to such an event, I find it my experience lends much credence to the modern myth-making that I prescribe to idiotic stories such as roswell or rednlsham. Unfortunately, folks online with the inability to use even half of their brain need to forgo common sense, reason and logic in an effort to arrive at the least likely conclusion. And those same fools wonder why we are not taken seriously. Odd that.
edit on 14-2-2012 by MainLineThis because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by MainLineThis
reply to post by draknoir2
 


I apologize for your inability to understand that what you "investigate" online is clouded by moronic idiots and misconstrued facts by ignorant fools. Yeah, sure. The internet told you that the two were separate incidents. Unfortunately, the internet is filled with friggin' idiots that couldn't describe everyday events much less something as "fantastic" as the allege "Phoenix lights"

Having been there myself, and witnessing everything, I can say that what I read in the coming weeks, months and years regarding this "event" makes me puke, especially when it comes from internet cheerleaders like you. As a matter of fact, to admit my own ignorance, the mundane events I witnessed that night I had no idea would be taken out of context by Joe six pack (i.e. the modern internet idiot). I would have paid more attention if I thought that the ignorance of the modern age would have blown this into something it is not. I learned my lesson then.

Being a first hand witness to such an event, I find it my experience lends much credence to the modern myth-making that I prescribe to idiotic stories such as roswell or rednlsham. Unfortunately, folks online with the inability to use even half of their brain need to forgo common sense, reason and logic in an effort to arrive at the least likely conclusion. And those same fools wonder why we are not taken seriously. Odd that.
edit on 14-2-2012 by MainLineThis because: (no reason given)


No problem.I apologize for your inability to express yourself in a non-combative, polite fashion.

And I'm pretty sure I know why you aren't taken seriously.





Wish I had back the time it took to bother responding your post. Once bitten...



posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 09:45 AM
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reply to post by Watts
 


what is never being made clear to all the viewers is that on the same day there were TWO different incidents of either visual 'V' shaped craft (all day long from Kingman AZ to Tuscon AZ an 3-4 hour period of time)

the 10PM 'Lights' were a different incident, and might be explained by A-10s dropping flares on the Barry Goldwater Range


see: www.latest-ufo-sightings.net...


The first event—the "v," which appeared over northern Arizona and gradually traveled south over nearly the entire length of the state, eventually passing south of Tucson—was the allegedly "wedge-shaped" object reported by then-Governor Symington and many others. This event started at about 8:15 over the Prescott area, and was seen south of Tucson by about 8:45.

The second event was the set of nine lights falling behind the Sierra Estrella, a mountain ridge to the southwest of Phoenix, at around 10pm. This was also observed by numerous people who may have thought they were seeing the same lights as those reported earlier.


Proponents of two separate events propose that the first event still has no provable explanation, ...





what makes the incident watchable, for me, is to see if any of the real time reports over the hours are being included... the V shaped craft with lights traveled hundreds of miles over the course of several hours...
Nevada to Kingman -> Prescott & Verde Valley -> henderson -> cave creek -> Phoenix -> Chandler -> Tuscon

all these towns/cities reported sightings to a local talk radio station, i heard blurbs all afternoon while on service calls...ever alert and eyes drawn to the sky ahead of me hoping to see the object as it approached Phoenix
but i went home @ 6PM, listened to the radio where there were reports of the UFO gliding over the Camelback Mountain then heading west towards Estrella park then down to South Mountain and followed I-15/I-10 past Chandler then past Casa Grande & south to Tuscon



posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by danaBLAF
 



I personally find Phoenix lights docs interesting because the different testominies they get followed by the debate of what it was from believers & skeptics. The footage they use are flares but it still adds to the entire debate of was it this or that. On top of that no one can prove either right or wrong after 15 years.


The only real mystery is what people saw (and reported) at 8pm that night.
The 10pm event was pretty much proven conclusively to be flares (and this was the event that was captured on video by at least 3 different people...and the one shown in the media).

So, this begs the question, where were these videos for the 8pm sightings? There's only one, but it's so fuzzy, it could be anything, and is likely the flight that dropped the flares (from the person's testimony).

While it's hard to call all these 8pm event witnesses liars, it's also hard to believe that nobody caught that sighting on tape, when they did for the one just a couple of hours later. Just doesn't add up.



posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 



Oh, this is hilariously rich:


The plasma critters don't count because you cannot catch them


Just like "BigFoot", and the "Lock Ness Monster", Leprechauns and Unicorns......something that does not exist, cannot (by definition) be captured....



posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by ProudBird
Just like "BigFoot", and the "Lock Ness Monster", Leprechauns and Unicorns......something that does not exist, cannot (by definition) be captured....


Well good... so if they don't exist you can't catch them, but if they don't exist no one would have skads of pictures to post in those ball of light UFO threads that you and your buddies like to lurk in collecting stars

Either way... they don't count and there hasn't been a good case of a 'visitor' for many years, hence the lack of anything to research

But hey... I am surprised at you... mean your favorite show Star Trek already did the giant space amoebas YEARS before NASA started recording the critters feeding on thunderstorms and tethers...

As to Bigfoot and Nessie... I am willing to bet that those sightings are brief glimpses into another dimension when a 'window' briefly opens.

But there is little point of discussing that idea with you

edit on 14-2-2012 by zorgon because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 09:09 AM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by ProudBird
Just like "BigFoot", and the "Lock Ness Monster", Leprechauns and Unicorns......something that does not exist, cannot (by definition) be captured....


Well good... so if they don't exist you can't catch them, but if they don't exist no one would have skads of pictures to post in those ball of light UFO threads that you and your buddies like to lurk in collecting stars

Either way... they don't count and there hasn't been a good case of a 'visitor' for many years, hence the lack of anything to research

But hey... I am surprised at you... mean your favorite show Star Trek already did the giant space amoebas YEARS before NASA started recording the critters feeding on thunderstorms and tethers...

As to Bigfoot and Nessie... I am willing to bet that those sightings are brief glimpses into another dimension when a 'window' briefly opens.

But there is little point of discussing that idea with you

edit on 14-2-2012 by zorgon because: (no reason given)


No offense intended, but I've gotta ask... are you serious, or just playing? It is difficult to tell.



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 02:16 PM
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While it's hard to call all these 8pm event witnesses liars, it's also hard to believe that nobody caught that sighting on tape, when they did for the one just a couple of hours later. Just doesn't add up.


I don't think it's that unlikely. How many videos of the actual flares were taken? I think there was two. Only one "well known" one. And that was in full view of the entire city of Phoenix. In 1997, video equipment was not quite as prevalent as they are today. The other sightings were hardly as visible. The flares keep in mind were behind a mountain range. Viewable from probably the entire city. The other sightings were over neighborhoods, from highways, etc. I don't think it's really all that surprising at all. Even recent phenomena over major cities (for example, the one over a city in China with a population over 1 million, from which I think 3 or 4 videos surfaced) doesn't always yield a lot of video.


Having been there myself, and witnessing everything


That's a patently ridiculous statement.

And the case was well covered - there was plenty of evidence reported in 1997, when it occured. I'm sorry you can't be bothered to review it, but there were plenty of handwritten reports, artist renditions based on testimony from witnesses, etc. - many things that had nothing to do with the flares near Phoenix - reports of the huge, black, triangular craft that was spotted before and after the flares were "cooincidently" dropped by the military.

And even though you changed your moniker, your comment of

And those same fools wonder why we are not taken seriously.
makes as little sense now as it did when you used it under your other name. You obviously don't believe at all. You are not "us" or "we." You are the debunker.



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 07:25 PM
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Originally posted by draknoir2
No offense intended, but I've gotta ask... are you serious, or just playing? It is difficult to tell.


None taken
but that reply was for that silly pilot
(about the space amoebas in Star Trek) and yes they did do that show.. "Immunity Syndrome" One really huge space critter that feeds on energy



As to the critters being real, many people know this now, just google 'Plasma life forms' And that was first proposed back in 1954 when Trevor coined the term 'Critters' (And no this has nothing to do with Rods), My personal estimate is 80%ish of UFO sightings after removing the obvious fluff are critters, 15%ish our own black ops and 5%ish the true visitors which are not just buzzing around our skies aimlessly

Even NASA studies the Critters, though they won't admit it
Just watch STS 80, the part over the storm. And here is a huge one on Mission Control screen



And I have not heard of any recent really good sighting of the visitors

As to Bigfoot and Lochnessy... yeah I find it more likely that they are glimpses into another dimension and tie in with stories like the Bermuda Triangle and Skin Walker Ranch

Hope that helps clear up you confuscation
I could go into detail but I don't see the point here

edit on 15-2-2012 by zorgon because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 07:13 AM
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reply to post by zorgon
 



I'm familiar with the episode. I'm a reformed Trekkie from way back [yeah, I said Trekkie and not Trekker].


I asked because sometimes it seems like you put the wildest of claims "out there" simply to promote discussion rather than to state your genuine beliefs. If I'm going to make an appropriate response to YOU, then it helps to know whether you're being sincere or just stirring the pot.


As for the "critter" you posted, it just looks like a zoom of one of the aperture artifacts from the STS-80 tether experiment footage.

Now before you point and screech "DEBUNKER!!!!" let me just say that when this footage was first made public, around the time Independence Day was released, I was astonished. To me the implications were staggering... at the time. I knew nothing about the mission, how the cameras worked, or how such artifacts could be produced, but since that time I've learned a bit and they have been explained to my satisfaction - reproduced, even on UFO Hunters. The artifacts are not mile-wide saucers passing behind a distant tether that is so thin as to be invisible without reflecting light. There is no way to tell if something as reflective were passing behind or in front of it with the light saturating the CCD, and without the light it would be impossible because the tether is too thin to see at that distance. The "saucers/critters" are all oriented the same way and have the same details - notch clocked the same way, same size, and same pulsing black dot in the center. They are aperture artifacts from over-exposed, out of focus FOD floating close to the camera.

www.youtube.com...

I consider myself to be fairly open-minded, but given a choice between a reasonable explanation which can be practically demonstrated and speculation that requires many wild leaps of logic, I will always go with the former.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by draknoir2
As for the "critter" you posted, it just looks like a zoom of one of the aperture artifacts from the STS-80 tether experiment footage.


Well two things, the tether footage is STS75... I was referring to the STS80 footage of the ones that come out of the thunderstorm and change intensity... and are no where near the thrusters

Second.... the 'critter' I posted is very huge on NASA's mission control screen.... you seriously thing they are zooming in on a tiny ice particle?



You are of course entitled to believe as you wish, but in my opinion you have let the skeptics cloud your judgement
However I don't intend to go through it all again... it was all covered in this thread (for 131 pages :wow


New Analysis Video of the STS-75 Tether Incident
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 02:23 PM
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I've always felt that was a camera effect / artifact. When you watch that video, you'll note that no one is even vaguely watching or caring that a supposed space critter is floating across the screen. You'd think they would be a bit more excited about it, or at least like.. watching it.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by draknoir2
As for the "critter" you posted, it just looks like a zoom of one of the aperture artifacts from the STS-80 tether experiment footage.


Well two things, the tether footage is STS75... I was referring to the STS80 footage of the ones that come out of the thunderstorm and change intensity... and are no where near the thrusters

Second.... the 'critter' I posted is very huge on NASA's mission control screen.... you seriously thing they are zooming in on a tiny ice particle?



You are of course entitled to believe as you wish, but in my opinion you have let the skeptics cloud your judgement
However I don't intend to go through it all again... it was all covered in this thread (for 131 pages :wow


New Analysis Video of the STS-75 Tether Incident
www.abovetopsecret.com...


No, I seriously think the cropped photo was a zoom of the mission control screen. It's the same sort of artifact from a particle floating too close to the camera. Doughnut with pulsing black center. They weren't "rising up from the clouds", but rather moving further and closer to the lens making them wash in and out of the image. Since the alternative requires more than a few unprovable and highly speculative assumptions, I'll say mine is the judgement least clouded. I have no particular desire to disprove or subscribe to anyone's beliefs. I'll go with what makes the most rational sense to me, and me alone.


Yeah, STS 75. I get my STS's mixed up. Same artifacts... different mission. And I've heard the back and forth. Bottom line is the artifact can be explained and reproduced without the invention of giant flying saucers or "plasma critters".



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 02:57 PM
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And ditto for Escamilla's "Rods".

Bought it for a brief period until it was proved a reproducible video camera artifact. Still the "unclouded" cling to their beliefs, and so it shall ever be.



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