What, in your opinion, is a terrorist?

noun
1.
intense, sharp, overmastering fear: to be frantic with terror.
2.
an instance or cause of intense fear or anxiety; quality of causing terror: to be a terror to evildoers.
3.
any period of frightful violence or bloodshed likened to the Reign of Terror in France.
4.
violence or threats of violence used for intimidation or coercion; terrorism.
5.
Informal . a person or thing that is especially annoying or unpleasant.

You all want to know something? The word terrorist really pisses me right off. I've been called a terrorist for my beliefs in the constitution. I've been called a terrorist for supporting the free will of humanity to do as they please. I've been called a terrorist for saying I love my country but hate my government. It's infuriating how much that word is thrown around!

Who is the real terrorist? I will never forget where I was on the morning of September 11, 2001. Unlike many I also haven't forgotten that that was not the first attack on the WTC. I won't forget the day my best friend died in Afghanistan, or the day my cousin got blown in half by an Iraqi IED. I will never forget any of that, ever, and any one who assumes that because I'm not a war monger makes me less of a patriot should try and say that to my face in public.

You armchair warriors have no clue what it's like, do you? You think America has some authority to do as she pleases just because we're supposedly the elite police force on this small, small planet. That's a disgusting way to look at the world, IMO... Totally disgusting.

If the poor child who had his face blown apart survives to become a man, and learn the truth about why his face was blown off, and why his friends and family died in an explosion they had no idea was coming... You think that young man is not going to have a permanent vendetta? You think those children that survived and watched their people die are ever going to forget that it was an American air strike that took those people away?

Open your eyes to the brutal and uncomfortable truth: The government of the United States of America has played its citizens for fools. We have stood back and watched attack after attack roll on the daily news and yet we as a whole still seem to ignore the inhuman treatments our government has chosen to dole out on the civilian population in the middle east. WAKE THE F UP! Put yourselves in another persons shoes for one day.....

Imagin yourself sitting on the front or back stoop of your home in suburbia, or your home in the city, or your home in the country, or your rental, or at your trailer. Now imagine yourself having a glass of tea, or playing some chess with your buddy, or maybe sipping a beer or two with the neighbors.

Now imagine hearing a high pitched whine screaming out of the sky followed by a series of explosions beginning at the end of your block and ending about 100 feet from you.

Or imagine a quick carpet bombing with a few 500 pound incindeiry bombs going off about a half a mile away and within seconds all of the windows in your home are broken, and it feels like there was an earthquake rolling under your feet.

Now imagine you found out who dropped those bombs.

Get my drift?

------------------

The above, minus the definition, was taken from another thread I had posted this in. I feel like this thought I've had at least merits more discussion, with derailing the other thread, which is about a video showing the rawest reality of what has been going on in the Middle East at American and allied hands.

We all think we know how grizzly war can be. We all know some one, and many of us have actually been in war(s) , but for those who are unaware it is the nastiest business in the world.

The harsh reality is that the US government has been TERRORIZING the civilian population of the middle east since late 2001. We have the blood of over 200,000 innocents on on OUR collective hands, because our 'enemies' don't choose to differentiate between us and the government.

And why should they? Our taxes have paid for it. Our media is bankrolling huge because of it. WE ARE ALL JUST AS GUILTY AS THE GOVERNEMNT. Not because we have chosen to support this type of action from our government, but because we have stood idly by and watched as innocent men women and children are burnt, blown up, and shot at in the name of American freedom. Please.

Its extremely unfortunate, but entirely true. I am an American, and I am ashamed. The Government of our country, the good ol USA, fits every definition of terror to the truest meaning of the word. So what do you guys think? I've been in nearly full outrage mode for the last year or so, and I know many of you have strong opinions about this topic. Here's your chance to get it off your chest.

A freedom fighter.

But what the question that begs to be asked after what i have just said is.

What do you define as freedom?



After all isnt a man who is a terrorist to you a freedom fighter to another? Not many people hate,kill,plot,destroy,toture and despise for no reason. I mean, would you?

I've stated in another thread that the war on terror is not about stopping terrorists from doing evil deeds to the American people. It's about who wins the right to terrorize the American people.

So when I say we're winning, I mean the US is doing a far better job at terrorizing it's citizens than any "terrorist group" out there.

I can also say "the terrorists won", and I'd be referring to the DHS, the TSA, the FBI, the CIA, the PD of any municipality, and the Government in general.

Originally posted by definity
A freedom fighter.

Care to elaborate? The modern day freedom fighter is running out of options. I feel that aside from an open rebellion the interwebs are our last small bastion of hope. On the flip side of that token the net has ceased to become a place of collaboration between like minded individuals, and has turned into a virtual fist fight caught with text, pics, and video. This being the case the phrase freedom fighter can be applied in broad strokes, much the same way the word terrorist can be.

I have a feeling with your sweet, three word response, you didn't read my entire thread, but I appreciate the input.

Of course you are right. I often have to consciously remind myself what a privileged life I have, even though by American standards I suppose I may be average at best. I complain about such meaningless things I'm too embarrassed to mention them, and when truly significant, even life altering problems surface, can it really be as bad as living in unrelenting, perpetual fear for the lives of your loved ones?

Defining terrorism, IMO, also can and probably should be viewed through a wider scope. I have an 11 year old son who has kept me awake at night because of random comments about bullies at school. Certainly this is an entirely different level of concern, but intentionally preying on other's rights and fears seems to be in areas of our lives we sometimes overlook.

I do not envy those who live in the shadow of daily, unpredictable violent attacks claiming lives at an alarming rate. That certainly sounds like terror to me.

YES!!! Finally someone who sees it the same way I do. What about those american soldiers who got just a slap on the wrist for killing a house full of innocent women and children in Iraq? All the comments on that article were saying that they were following orders or no one knows what it's like in the heat of the moment at war. But everyone knows damn well that if that happened here in America it would be a different story. That was nothing but a message to Iraq because of the IED that killed their fellow soldier. It was like they were saying yall did this so we are going to go kill women and children.

reply to post by danj3ris


I agree with your assessment, however I would like to opine a couple things.

Not all cops are bad, not all Feds are bad, not all spooks are bad. ALL POLITICIANS ARE WEASELS AND LIARS.

What I mean by that statement is that while, yes, overall I would not offer my support to any of these organizations, I would also not ever blame the operational people who are there just doing their job to the best they can. In the big picture those people are no different than any other American worker.

Another thing that I want to make perfectly clear is that I support to the fullest of my capability, the INDIVIDUAL men and women who serve in the armed forces of the united states. I disagree with the reason their lives are put in danger, and I disagree with the reasons they were ever sent over, and the reasons they are still there, but for those hardworking people, in that line of work, you have no choice.

reply to post by freedoomofspeech12


I think my last post touched on this a little as well. Soldiers, infantry in particular, are legally bound to say nothing but 'yes sir'. Weather they like it or not, they got ordered to kill those people at that time, so they did. I've never believed in punishing soldiers for war crimes, punish generals. No matter what happens over there or what we hear about, the us military chain of command will never be broken.

Ever heard the old saying S rolls downhill? The grunts that have to pull the trigger are the bottom of S mountain.

reply to post by definity


Id say a terrorist is anybody that tries to enforce their own will on others by force, threat of force, etc. Its also the newest way of saying anyone on the other side of the coin, especially if they fight without the newest technology or in ways not taught in the war colleges. Guess its just the brainwashed way of pronouncing enemy. Also anyone who opposes TPTB. Myself I define TPTB as terrorists in every country of the world.

America has every right to infringe on other countries rights in order to further our national interests. As long as we have the power we should use it to make the place better for Americans and anyone who is currently our ally. The whiney do gooders would have you believe that we should all get along and there can actually be a world totally at peace but that is a fallicy.

There will never be peace in the world until someone hits the reset button and we get a do-over so until then we should make every country fall in line with what we want. Once they all fear us there will be very little war or conflict and the world will be a much better place.

reply to post by Kenrichaed


So your plan is to terrorize innocents and civilians over seas in order to further American interests? Don't those civilians have the same God given right to live free as we do? Does it matter that they call their god a different name? Does it matter that they speak a different language?

Explain to me, something aside from the usual 911 never forget crap, how do you justify almost a quarter million INNOCENT LIVES lost as furthering America's interest?

Or by American interest do you mean those who profit from war? Because most of those companies aren't even American any more, and the ones that are have had more black budget funding, than anything else. American taxes pretty much.

So why don't you try again? Your response doesn't make much sense and really doesn't sound all that smart. Since America can no longer sustain the war economy our interests have long ceased over seas. Focus on the borders, and focus on our people is the MO of the government, not to create illegal wars and kill innocent civilians.

reply to post by W3RLIED2


Who or what is a terrorist? Well that all depends on who you ask. Most Americans will associate terrorists with Arab Muslims but Pakistani people call the US military terrorists.

My simple definition of a terrorist is anyone who malicicously instills fear in people by means of any violent action.

Oxford Dictionary....
Terror......Extreme Fear.. A terrifying person or thing.. a formidable person.., a troublesome person or thing,esp a child..


Wiki......
Terrorism... is the systematic use of terror, especially as a means of coercion. In the international community, however, terrorism has no universally agreed, legally binding, criminal law definition. Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those violent acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for a religious, political or, ideological goal; and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants (civilians). Some definitions now include acts of unlawful violence and war. The use of similar tactics by criminal organizations for protection rackets or to enforce a code of silence is usually not labeled terrorism though these same actions may be labeled terrorism when done by a politically motivated group.

Wiktionary...
Terrorist.....1 ..A person, group, or organization that uses violent action, or the threat of violent action, to further political goals; frequently in an attempt to coerce either a more powerful opponent, (such as a citizen or group targeting a government), or conversely, a weaker opponent, (such as a government, or even an internal citizen or group, being targeted by a larger government).
2. An agent or partisan of the revolutionary tribunal during the Reign of Terror in France.

IMO its a term that can be interpreted how you want thus should not be used in the political arena..
eg Using a combination of definitions from above....
....A child that uses violent action or the threat of violence to coerce a more powerful opponent (parent) or a weaker opponent (sibling,school mate etc) can be considered a terrorist.....Ridiculous

So by definition
1..we all have been "terrorists" at some time. Thus....
2..When governments declare "war on terror" they by definition are declaring war on us all..

Makes a warped kind of sense when you look at the state of things politically..

Peace

Originally posted by definity
After all isnt a man who is a terrorist to you a freedom fighter to another? Not many people hate,kill,plot,destroy,toture and despise for no reason. I mean, would you?

edit on 11-2-2012 by definity because: (no reason given)

Blowing up children in your OWN country who happen to be of a different faith is not freedom.

it's terrorism.

reply to post by W3RLIED2


I am quite prepared to have an extensive debate with you if you would like. As for the quarter million lives lost i'm assuming your referring to the war in Iraq. I did not support that, as you noted yourself there were no American interests at stake there.

My belief is that if America is an active and forceful player on a global scale that some of the horrific events happening today can be avoided. Things such as regional conflict, starvation, the human slave trade that's still occuring and things like this.

Some believe that America should stay out of countries and observe their sovereignty but I say that history has shown that a isolationist attitude leads to bigger problems down the road for us.

reply to post by W3RLIED2

So what do you guys think? I've been in nearly full outrage mode for the last year or so, and I know many of you have strong opinions about this topic.

Hella broadside, dude. Direct hits... target destroyed. Your rage comes thru alright. I feel the same way. I know of the video you speak (and others). You say it with the force of anger that could be a turnoff to the message. Fighting back at them is precisely what they want. Like you said, now they label you a terrorist too and you play right into their trap.

I heard the best way to fight their lies is to expose them. You have experience. You have seen it first hand. Your stories about the injustice and "disinformation" are your best weapon against the media propaganda. They hate that. There are people who hear the reports of personal experience on here and would love to hear more. Without getting yourself in "state secret" trouble, tone down and tell ATS your tale. We love that stuff.

reply to post by Lexx790


Not a comforting thought to say the least.

So basically the war on terrorism is the war where we can attack any one, any where, any time. And with all of our drones these days why not? Obamas own words were ' they'll never see it coming ', so why worry right? They can't see it coming, our guys sit at Langley and play a video game, on a big screen, only real people get hurt. Other innocent HUMANS die. And afterwards, the Pres takes a vacation, the generals go home and have a scotch on the rocks, and the Predator operator goes home to Virginia somewhere and barbecues with his family....

The armchair warrior generation thinks this is good for our interests as Americans? What about the good of humanity? What about the good of our fellow HUMANS? Especially the innocent ones?!?!?

The more I think about it the more it makes me cringe. For as much as we Americans put ourselves above the rest of everyone as morally superior, we know not what being righteous means. There is only one morally superior being who can pass judgment on any of us, and let me tell you That Power does not reside in Washington DC.

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by Lexx790

 

Not a comforting thought to say the least.

So basically the war on terrorism is the war where we can attack any one, any where, any time. And with all of our drones these days why not? Obamas own words were ' they'll never see it coming ', so why worry right? They can't see it coming, our guys sit at Langley and play a video game, on a big screen, only real people get hurt. Other innocent HUMANS die. And afterwards, the Pres takes a vacation, the generals go home and have a scotch on the rocks, and the Predator operator goes home to Virginia somewhere and barbecues with his family....

The armchair warrior generation thinks this is good for our interests as Americans? What about the good of humanity? What about the good of our fellow HUMANS? Especially the innocent ones?!?!?

The more I think about it the more it makes me cringe. For as much as we Americans put ourselves above the rest of everyone as morally superior, we know not what being righteous means. There is only one morally superior being who can pass judgment on any of us, and let me tell you That Power does not reside in Washington DC.

Everything your describing happened to the people in the WTC so I am curious what you feel would have been an appropriate response. I haven't seen you mention that yet.

reply to post by Kenrichaed


Well from the official reports, if you believe in such things, Bin Laden was our primary target for the 911 attack. Last time I checked he took two shots and a splash. Hell I doubt there's even a piece of him left.

Mission accomplished, right? 3000 deaths avenged by killing the worst terror leader in history? Right?

Ok. So why kill 200,000 innocents in air raids and drone strikes? ON THAT NOTE WHY EVER INVADE IRAQ OR AFGHANISTAN?

Let me check the list of our objectives. Hmmm

WMDs? Nope sorry

Yellowcake uranium? Nope sorry.

Huge ammased invasion forced bent on American destruction? Negative ghost rider.

The burden of proof is on you dude. Prove to me that it was a good thing. Prove to me that these innocents deserve to lose their life more than the people in the WTC did. If you can justify an innocent life for and innocent life you should become a contract killer, it's a trait not many of even the hardest soldiers have.

reply to post by W3RLIED2


I already agreed that the war in Iraq, and also Afghanistan, were not in America's interests. However that does not change my view.

You appear to be dodging my questions now though so I'll go play some video games and check back later.

G'nite to you.