Mystery of the Masonic "hunnerts o' times" language of Orphan Annie, page 4

reply to post by Biliverdin

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Clive Prince is not, shall we say, a great source. Alchemy, in the sense that we are currently discussing is pretty much narrowed down, and you'd be much better reading Paul Coelho for it's relevence here, most everything else, alchemical, has merged into the sciences, that single point excepted. Have you read Frazer's The Golden Bough? Much better overview of things than Pike will ever provide you with, Pike's worldview, while vaild to the Masons no doubt, has limited scope for us lesser mortals...

I'll read it. For perspective, I have listened to most of the Golden Dawn podcast and read most of the related books from Theosophy. There is a root truth that must be understood by this tradition of thought if correct truth is to be understood. I outline this in my many articles and it's very simple. Taking from the fruit of knowledge makes us a thief. Allowing God to give the fruit makes us a child of God. Nature has a process. Alchemy seeks to speed that process up by the works of men. It's a failed attempt. The wedding clothes can only be put on one way and with one name. Any other method makes us a thief and a wedding crasher.

Many Masons are aware of the correct path and practice it. In John 15:16, Jesus said, “You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should remain.”

The key is bearing fruit and not taking it.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
reply to post by Biliverdin

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Clive Prince is not, shall we say, a great source. Alchemy, in the sense that we are currently discussing is pretty much narrowed down, and you'd be much better reading Paul Coelho for it's relevence here, most everything else, alchemical, has merged into the sciences, that single point excepted. Have you read Frazer's The Golden Bough? Much better overview of things than Pike will ever provide you with, Pike's worldview, while vaild to the Masons no doubt, has limited scope for us lesser mortals...

I'll read it. For perspective, I have listened to most of the Golden Dawn podcast and read most of the related books from Theosophy. There is a root truth that must be understood by this tradition of thought if correct truth is to be understood. I outline this in my many articles and it's very simple. Taking from the fruit of knowledge makes us a thief. Allowing God to give the fruit makes us a child of God. Nature has a process. Alchemy seeks to speed that process up my the works of men. It's a failed attempt. The wedding clothes can only be put on one way and with one name. Any other method makes us a thief and a wedding crasher.

Many Masons are aware of the correct path and practice it. In John 15:16, Jesus said, “You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should remain.”

The key is bearing fruit and not taking it.

Sooooo.....on that principle...what is always 'fruited' in the East?

reply to post by Biliverdin

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Sooooo.....on that principle...what is always 'fruited' in the East?

In one sense of the word 'fruited', we could make the case of Eastern ritual sacrifice and rape of children. This shows up with the Priests in the church, with the Greek Philosophers and many other mystical traditions. If we are examining two authors with a fascination of orphans and little girls, we might make the case that this is connected to such practices. It might further be noted that the Bohemian Grove Club seems to have such a connection to Moloch. Most of the Bohemian Grove members are also Masons of one sort or another. If there is one secret they would want to keep, it would be such a connection to the occult, magic and sacrifice to demons. Possibly, it's simpler than this. Conspiracies are easily connected from misplaced concreteness. Then again, know them by their fruit.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
The Turks seem to have this problem as well. Isn't Masonry big there?

Only around 15,000 members as of about 10 years ago. source. Not many, really.

Originally posted by Biliverdin

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
reply to post by Biliverdin

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Clive Prince is not, shall we say, a great source. Alchemy, in the sense that we are currently discussing is pretty much narrowed down, and you'd be much better reading Paul Coelho for it's relevence here, most everything else, alchemical, has merged into the sciences, that single point excepted. Have you read Frazer's The Golden Bough? Much better overview of things than Pike will ever provide you with, Pike's worldview, while vaild to the Masons no doubt, has limited scope for us lesser mortals...

I'll read it. For perspective, I have listened to most of the Golden Dawn podcast and read most of the related books from Theosophy. There is a root truth that must be understood by this tradition of thought if correct truth is to be understood. I outline this in my many articles and it's very simple. Taking from the fruit of knowledge makes us a thief. Allowing God to give the fruit makes us a child of God. Nature has a process. Alchemy seeks to speed that process up my the works of men. It's a failed attempt. The wedding clothes can only be put on one way and with one name. Any other method makes us a thief and a wedding crasher.

Many Masons are aware of the correct path and practice it. In John 15:16, Jesus said, “You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should remain.”

The key is bearing fruit and not taking it.

Sooooo.....on that principle...what is always 'fruited' in the East?

Here comes the Sun, doo-de-doo-doo.

reply to post by pshea38

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I understood before. The Sun rises in the East. The Sun is Egyptian worship of Ra. Let me go further down the Rabbit's hole.

'With all his mines an' oil wells in th' orient -- "Daddy's" been out there hunnerts o' times -- but he says one time he travelled to the East, but didn't make a dime, meant more to him than all th'other trips he'll ever make -- I don't get -- do you? "

"Daddy" is the Father. Depending on how you view the master architect, you will either see Him as Lucifer or God or YHVH. The Mason definitely sees a Trinity.

The Dog has a black and white ear and one eye. A representation of good and evil perhaps (Fruit of Knowledge). Traveling East is traveling to the Sun. It is also traveling to the Esoteric spirituality of what is hidden over eternity (The Horizon). The Dog sees with one eye opened. The Dog is a companion of the Orphan.

The Orphan is wandering the wilderness of the world away from Daddy (Father). The wilderness represents this word (Egypt). The orphan (outer court) is clueless and controlled by the inner court.

The Orient and the mines and wells represents the material world. He's been there hundreds of times in the flesh. One time, he traveled to the EAST. This is a reference to transmigration of the soul.

The button on Daddy's shirt is a dollar sign, a marker for his true heart. Material as opposed to spiritual. Esoteric as opposed to Exoteric. The true wealth comes from Esoteric in the East according to the Masons. What did Christ say?

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. Matthew 7:13

The narrow gate is between, clinging to neither. If you listen to a dog, the problem is evident. Listen to the true Father instead.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
Depending on how you view the master architect, you will either see Him as Lucifer or God or YHVH. The Mason definitely sees a Trinity.

How did you arrive at this absurd conclusion?

It's no secret that many masons are deceived into false conclusions. Depending on the lodge you study, the fruit tells the story. This is the problem for entering the world of the occult. Unless the mind is properly prepared with righteousness, the heart will deceive. LINK

The temple is not created by men. It is the work of Christ. He will raise the temple in three days. The Pharisees and Sadducees were looking for a sign. They were on a journey of their own according to the word's wisdom. Christ cursed them and said the only sign they would receive would be the sign of Jonah. This is where Christ implied that the "Builders" had rejected the true capstone (Cornerstone).

Who else rejected Christ? Peter is Petros. This rock is the rock that was removed to reveal the true Christ. Peter is the Catholic Church. The Pharisees and the Sadducees were the esoteric (unwritten), while Peter was the Exoteric (World's Wisdom). Peter denied Christ three times, as did the experts in the law. Read my article on this. LINK

There is a broad range of belief in the church of Freemasonry. Ritual, magic and theurgy is a back door to heaven by works. Christ is the way, the truth and the life. There is no other way. All I am pointing out is that many Masons fall into various errors along the way. The higher they go, the worse it gets. Take a look around at the "Great Work" that the fruit of knowledge has built out of Carbon (6 Protons, 6 Electrons, 6 Neutrons). This is the beast. The mark of mankind is Carbon. The error of mankind is transmutation of carbon into technology. Overcoming the beast is with the Word of God.

7 protons, 7 neutrons, 7 electrons is Nitrogen.

8 protons, 8 neutrons, 8 electrons is Oxygen.

We don't need a decoder ring to know that the very air we breathe is used to share the Words of God. Is there more under the surface and waves of that breath? Yes. Is the fruit of this knowledge for us at this time? No. This is the great error, not the great work. If we take the gift instead of receiving it as a gift, we die by our choice. Life comes by placing God in his place of authority. The symbols can be misread if the heart is not pure. God's work is building our faith. Our work is being the witness to this work.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
Depending on how you view the master architect, you will either see Him as Lucifer or God or YHVH. The Mason definitely sees a Trinity.

How did you arrive at this absurd conclusion?

Like I said, the Masons are a varied group. It depends on your lodge. Here is one example. Is it possible a symbol has more than one meaning by context? LINK

reply to post by SuperiorEd

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the biggest problem is that there are people who believe their spirit is eternal... and there are people who think this human life is the only shot at something......

so you are saying the "best" things humans on this planet can do, is to live simply,healthily and peacefully, and enjoy the natural fruits of man and earths nature.. and we can do this for millennia and keep an equilibrium of consumption, population, and resources...

the first line might be incorrect now that i think about it, by thinking it is an issue of eternal spirit... because the natural way which the second line dictates, has been the way of life of humans for thousands of years, and this side of the more recent modern era it is kind of like humans have been running away from that nature at full speed,. just another avenue of adventure, with the means to sate curiosity,

really a large percentage of our technology is only an inhibitor of multiplying our species, just as the spear allowed us to have an advantage, and breed more, the current technologies of efficiency and comfort do the same to a different degree.... the notion of your god is that the saviour of technology is an illusion, and the nature that millennia of time has prepared for man is mans best bet at true happiness and peace...

I think the lesson god would like us to learn is more complex, and more of a middle ground.... one that takes in all avenues of thought and possibility, which cares for its entire species with love, unity, and compassion, but also utilizes unfathomable knowledge to create new realities on earth through advanced technology.,. god is a/the creator, the maddest scientist we can know of,,. but it is also the definition of well rounded,., we can live as humble man for eternities,,. but im sure god would not mind if we saw to ourselves that we grew up to follow in our creators footsteps, of understanding ourselves, and the creation inside and out,., to explore ourselves, our imagination and original ideas...

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
It's no secret that many masons are deceived into false conclusions.

It is not secret that as Masons we are perpetually astounded when a non-Mason has the obnoxious sentiment that they are somehow privy to what we happen to think by virtue of possessing knowledge about Masonry that the Mason somehow does not also possess.

LINK

Sorry. Jesus-nutter sites are not exactly the best sources to use in a debate by virtue of their unfeigned religious bigotry and intolerance.

Who else rejected Christ?

I long-discounted the divinity of Christ before I became a Mason. One had nothing to do with the other.

The higher they go, the worse it gets.

'Higher they go'? There is no higher once you become a Master Mason unless you opt to become an officer or participate at the Grand Lodge level.

Life comes by placing God in his place of authority.

Which is something all Masons are reminded of in the Degrees.

reply to post by ImaFungi

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the biggest problem is that there are people who believe their spirit is eternal... and there are people who think this human life is the only shot at something......

Jesus said, "You must be born again." Alchemy says that nature can be transmuted and stepped around as the process for raising to new life. Jesus gave the key in John 3. We must be born of the Water AND Spirit. Baptism happens from earth, air, water and fire. The water was Elijah in 1 Kings 17 and Matthew 3 and John 3. The fire is Christ by trial. God was the Earth and Air. Each is a baptism. Can we escape the fire? What about the water? Will that work by ours or God's. That's all we need to see.

so you are saying the "best" things humans on this planet can do, is to live simply,healthily and peacefully, and enjoy the natural fruits of man and earths nature.. and we can do this for millennia and keep an equilibrium of consumption, population, and resources...

Not at all. We made the choice for toil and time. If we had simply restrained our hand from the fruit, one day (1000 years) would have been sufficient for the work. God gives us the fruit. We can't kid ourselves into thinking we are doing it. We are still following the wrong path. Jesus told Peter to fish on the right side of the boat. When he did, he caught 153 fish. This is the measure of the fish, which is a ration of 1:1.415. The square root of 2 is the difference between unity and multiplicity. Sin divides. Love unifies. What are we about to see as a result of our division from God? How can we return? Love. Our choice does not change the work of God in the wilderness. It just makes our walk harder.

the first line might be incorrect now that i think about it, by thinking it is an issue of eternal spirit... because the natural way which the second line dictates, has been the way of life of humans for thousands of years, and this side of the more recent modern era it is kind of like humans have been running away from that nature at full speed,. just another avenue of adventure, with the means to sate curiosity,

Read my article the law and tyranny. Why did we experience the law of God and then the law of love from Jesus? God of the OT and God of the NT - How do you see it?

really a large percentage of our technology is only an inhibitor of multiplying our species, just as the spear allowed us to have an advantage, and breed more, the current technologies of efficiency and comfort do the same to a different degree.... the notion of your god is that the saviour of technology is an illusion, and the nature that millennia of time has prepared for man is mans best bet at true happiness and peace...

The problem is not the technology. The problem is our greed. We must be born again. So must our technology. We keep this from happening by greed and money. Because we stop the progress by taking, we disallow the evolution to safer products. The heart is the problem, not the fruit of technology. In the end, all God's bio-mechanical technology gives back to nature 100%. Ours takes by 90%. The difference between hate and love is taking or giving. Good and evil is the same. The fruit of knowledge is just this easy to see.

I think the lesson god would like us to learn is more complex, and more of a middle ground.... one that takes in all avenues of thought and possibility, which cares for its entire species with love, unity, and compassion, but also utilizes unfathomable knowledge to create new realities on earth through advanced technology.,. god is a/the creator, the maddest scientist we can know of,,. but it is also the definition of well rounded,., we can live as humble man for eternities,,. but im sure god would not mind if we saw to ourselves that we grew up to follow in our creators footsteps, of understanding ourselves, and the creation inside and out,., to explore ourselves, our imagination and original ideas...

Confucius said, "I hear and I forget. I see and I learn. I do and I understand." We must do the last part in full or the other two make no sense. In the end, the 1000 year reign of Christ will finish the work. We must submit to God first after failing on our own. As I said before, once we submit to God's authority, the work only takes 1 day.

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