the rejection of violence in all its forms

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
Violence is the 'language' of the biological imperative body you inhabit, non-violence is fine if you are a spirit in an ethereal world.

Within civil society, it is possible to live with 'non violence', so long as you have the police to exercise it on your behalf.

Otherwise OP your ideas are just idiotic half-baked ramblings and comefrom a profound denial of your true nature probably caused by over-socialisation at an early age.

Seriously.....

Op is trying to promote peace.

His so called "ramblings" are actually fresh air.

Psycho analyzing his words doesn't promote peace,but just the opposite. It derails the thread.

Originally posted by XPLodER
i see your opinion and insert MLK jr and gandhi

taught about in schools world wide,
i cant say i have heard of you before now

This attitude isn't likely to accomplish anything other than annoying people. For as long as people like those two are just that...two...we're going to remain in the same situation we are in right now. If everyone started behaving like they do, then we might get somewhere.

But we won't; and the reason why, is because we prefer LOLcats and Facebook.

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by petrus4

 

you cant stop a world of pieceful people,
you cant kill everyone if they are gandhi,

I quote the Spartans:-

If.

edit on 14-2-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)

i have no question of the inherent tendencies of humans,
i trust them to be fair in a fair society,
you sparta reference reinforces my point,

a sociatial standard enforced within the comunity.
we are sparta

xploder

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by XPLodER
i see your opinion and insert MLK jr and gandhi

taught about in schools world wide,
i cant say i have heard of you before now

This attitude isn't likely to accomplish anything other than annoying people. For as long as people like those two are just that...two...we're going to remain in the same situation we are in right now. If everyone started behaving like they do, then we might get somewhere.

But we won't; and the reason why, is because we prefer LOLcats and Facebook.

free will is a very precious gift,
youl have to excuse my outburst i have some metal pressures atm,
doing some equations

truth is simple, people inherently want others to do well when they themselves are doing well,
there is simply to many examples to ignore.

non violence is the way
in mind body and spirit.
i live it every day

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER




Add to that greed.

Nature is not peaceful, it is violent.
It will kill you without hesitation when it gets the chance.
Nature thrives on murder and death.
Violence is the natural order of things.

Originally posted by LionOfGOD
Nature is not peaceful, it is violent.
It will kill you without hesitation when it gets the chance.
Nature thrives on murder and death.
Violence is the natural order of things.

Nature can be both violent or peaceful, in can in fact have many serene and beautiful moments.

Animals it is true are *somewhat* 'locked' in an often violent struggle to eat and not be eaten, but humans have the capacity to exist peacefully. I happen to know many that do.

But I see what you are saying there are certainly many violent struggles going on between most everthing in the universe at times, from the smallest virus to the largest galaxy, nice to find a small microcosm out of the way of it all.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
Violence is the 'language' of the biological imperative body you inhabit, non-violence is fine if you are a spirit in an ethereal world.

Within civil society, it is possible to live with 'non violence', so long as you have the police to exercise it on your behalf.

Otherwise OP your ideas are just idiotic half-baked ramblings and comefrom a profound denial of your true nature probably caused by over-socialisation at an early age.

I disagree almost completely.

1. While "violence" as an act of momentary and contextual confrontation between two organisms may be biologically imperative, there is nothing so imperative or necessary about violence created without regard for the moment or context. No other creature on the planet delays or defers violence in quite the same way as humans. No carnivore predator goes out of its way to cause overpredation (unless there is a population imbalance, which corrects itself and things return to normal). No territorial mammal will go out of its way to haphazardly kill and maim other creatures of its species (or otherwise) independent of their trespass on that mammal's territory, nor can they physically do that.

2. The police are a hypercorrection to a failed system. They're a poorly placed band-aid on a serious flesh wound. They do not do violence on my behalf, they mete out violence (top-down) on those that have cause (though not necessarily "excuse") to be violent (bottom-up) on behalf of those that created that same top-down violence in the first place. In less confusing wording, the cops are an over reaction to a failed system that has created an unnatural violence as an unintended result of a control mechanism. The bottom rung of society lashes out because of the everyday violence.

3. Anarchist theory (not those black bloc folks the media calls anarchists) is about how all power hierarchies need to be context-based (need-based with a set time limit). In otherwords, rather than having a roaming police force always looking for violence (explicitly because it is there), people would deal with violence in the moment of it. Then again, under such theory (and, most likely in practice as can be seen in many smaller societies around the world over time) there would be no need for such a police force because the ruling structures that need to be protected from the bottom-up, blowback violence to their top-down control-mechanistic violence would not be in place.

I see no real way that such violence that we see today in war and imperialism and our economic system has any balanced, biological rationale. The only point I concede is that violence in its imperative, instantaneous form is biologically-driven - that's why I said "almost completely".

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by Tea4One
Try overthrowing the oppressors without violence, try it. There has never been a revolution brought upon by peaceful methods, it's all been done through blood. The oppressors won't give over power so easily, they have the weapons and they have the greed to justify themselves to each other. Violence is the only method for real change.

Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi.........................

You have to be careful using Ghandi as an example. Its entirely possible that he only succeeded with the methods he employed because he was opposing the forces of an empire already in decline with little appetite for wholesale mass murder.

Non violent resistance relies upon the oppressor having some restricting moral compass or other restraining mechanism.

Would it have worked in a Nazi Germany controlled India, or Stalin? If you torture and kill one dissident he's a martyr. If you murder everybody who dissents, or is suspected or dissenting, then the significance of that one death is lost amongst the fear and pain.

Pacifism won't work against people who will feed you into a mincing machine feet first while whistling a happy tune.

Originally posted by justwokeup
Pacifism won't work against people who will feed you into a mincing machine feet first while whistling a happy tune.

This is the exact point.

Pacifism works if and only if the opposition cares about the moral high ground. If they don't, said pacifists will simply end up dead.

The other reason why it's annoying when people cite Gandhi, is because even if he himself had the ability to accomplish what he did, it is a very safe bet in any situation that the person mentioning him would not. Brahmacharya is very serious business; there is virtually no one in contemporary society who could live like that, long term. I've tried it...I can't do it for more than a few weeks at a time, tops.