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Why Argentina WILL Invade the Falklands & How Iran are Involved

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posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by Power_Semi
 


I think that you have grossly underestimated the UKs armed forces and overestimated the Argentinian armed forces.

True, the Royal Navy is different to what it was back in 1982 but what we do have, more than compensates in numbers. HMS Dauntless a Type 45 Air Defence Destroyer (brand new btw) which is currently on its way 'down south' to replace the Frigate HMS Montrose is more than capable of 'taking down' all of the Argentinian Air Force/Navys' aircraft by itself, which incidently are still using the same types of aircraft as they were back in 1982.

I very much doubt that there is a Vanguard Class Ballistic nuclear submarine in the South Atlantic, that is just Argentinian propaganda. However, a Trafalgar Class nuclear-powered (Hunter-Killer) and Tomahawk armed submarine is also going south to replace the current patrolling submarine.

In addition, the Falklands are defended by a Squadron of 4 Typhoons, a Battalion of Infantry, an air defence unit and several other smaller Fishery/Patrol vessels.

RAF Mount Pleasant can easily be re-inforced in under 24 hours from the UK (probably less) from the UK Spearhead Batttalion and also with extra flights of Tornadoes or Typhoons. HMS Dauntless' state of the art radar system is more than capable of detecting any aircraft that have taken off from the Argentinian mainland or of any ships leaving port giving the Falklands and thus the UK plenty of notice. No aircraft carriers are needed.

Venezuala is just postulating and stirring things up. Look at the Geography of South America. They would have to sail a long way to get anywhere near the Falklands. We do have satelites you know.

I do agree that the Iran 'problem' could be a distraction but if it came to it, the UK would concentrate on the Falklands and possibly even send down the Armilla Patrol from the Red Sea/Indian Ocean to the Falklands.

I strongly suggest you research the state of the Argentinian armed forces as they are today. They are a mere shadow of the force they once were. Their Navy and Airforce are nothing but a Territorial Defence Force now, with no capability of mounting an 'invasion'.

I am confident that the UK MoD is well aware of things 'down south' and are moving assets into place should things decide to go tits-up as we near the 30th Anniversary of the 1982 Falklands War.

regards
Wotan




posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 11:19 AM
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Now how long will it takes before this thread becomes a Falklands/Malvinas pissing contest?

And plus my Argentine teacher wold defend Argentina simply because he believes Falklands/Malvinas is part of Argentina when it is not
edit on 11-2-2012 by starwarsisreal because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 11:22 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by NeverSleepingEyes
reply to post by Power_Semi
 


i hope i'm not telling anything new here:

wake up, the Era of the Empire is over. Unless Cameron needs to have some young males killed in order to boost popularity, as happened during the first episode, there is no reason for a western island to claim another island that is part of a different region of the world. we have no business there.

(i hope you don't take offense, especially as i second lots of parts of the analysis you shared with us)

Perhaps the 1944 Normandy invasion should not have happened either?



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by Wotan
reply to post by Power_Semi
 


I think that you have grossly underestimated the UKs armed forces and overestimated the Argentinian armed forces.



I agree wholeheartedly.

Dauntless carries a better surface to air capability than the entire Task Force in '82 had.

The Four Typhoons on the Falklands are also much more capable in the Air-to-air role than the Sea Harriers ever were.

And a single Trafalgar, or Astute class sub can engage sea and land based targets as need be and, frankly, be virtually invisible to anything the Argentinians have.

In this case, its about quality, not quanitity - of both trained personnel and equipment.







edit on 11/2/12 by neformore because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 11:31 AM
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I'm not making any comment over whether we rightfully own the Falklands or not (and actually we're not claiming it now we owned it before there was an Argentinian state), or whether the people of the Falklands should have the right to self determination, simply that I believe the Argentinians will invade, and why.


that's correct. the "moral stance" is totally mine and is in no way a negative comment on your analysis.

i'm sorry i expressed myself in a suboptimal way (English isn't my mother tongue), as i never wanted to suggest that Britain is claiming the Falklands just now. I know this isn't so, history goes way back indeed).



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by pikestaff

Originally posted by NeverSleepingEyes
reply to post by Power_Semi
 


i hope i'm not telling anything new here:

wake up, the Era of the Empire is over. Unless Cameron needs to have some young males killed in order to boost popularity, as happened during the first episode, there is no reason for a western island to claim another island that is part of a different region of the world. we have no business there.

(i hope you don't take offense, especially as i second lots of parts of the analysis you shared with us)

Perhaps the 1944 Normandy invasion should not have happened either?


i share that opinion, but most probably not for the same reasons.

if the early nazi's weren't financed by what became the "allied forces"
if european power houses wouldn't have been pretty sympathetic towards that regime
if standard oil didn't sell the oil that kept the machinery going

maybe there was no slaughter of people
nor a need for an invasion
edit on 11-2-2012 by NeverSleepingEyes because: added some "reasons"



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 11:44 AM
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Lets put some perspective here.

For the last 8 months or so, it is Christina Kirtchner the Argentinian President, dubbed the 'Bitch', that has been stirring the pot, especially over the past three weeks or so. It is the Argentinians that are being aggressive. She is only doing all of this for purely short-term political gains.

First they stopped Falkland Island flagged ships from entering their ports and by stirring up other latin American countries to also do the same. They now accuse the UK of having a Vanguard Class 'nuke' submarine off of their coast - Where the hell did they get that from? They say that the UK is militarising the area, where in fact it is just the 'usual' 6 month rotation of assets which has been going on since 1982.

They accuse Prince William of being a 'Conquistador' for wearing his RAF uniform whilst carrying out his role of a Search and Rescue Helicopter Pilot. Kirtchner has gone all Latin and is screaming because a local Falklands newspaper (the Penguin News) had a photo of her that had the file name 'Bitch' and it was shown on Facebook.

Now the Argentinian Foreign Minister has gone to the UN and complained about the militarising the South Atlantic showing a map of military bases, which shows Ascension Island (true, does have a military base), St. Helena (doesnt), Tristian de Cuhna (doesnt - couldnt even station a Platoon there, let alone an airbase), South Georgia (doesnt - apart from a section of Royal Marines) and of course the Falklands which does have a military prescence.

Dont you think the Argentinians are sounding really pathetic? They are making themselves look really stupid. The UN has already stated that it is down to the Islanders to decide their fate. I really think that Kirtchner has lost the plot!



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by Wotan
reply to post by Power_Semi
 


I think that you have grossly underestimated the UKs armed forces and overestimated the Argentinian armed forces.



I agree wholeheartedly.

Dauntless carries a better surface to air capability than the entire Task Force in '82 had.

The Four Typhoons on the Falklands are also much more capable in the Air-to-air role than the Sea Harriers ever were.

And a single Trafalgar, or Astute class sub can engage sea and land based targets as need be and, frankly, be virtually invisible to anything the Argentinians have.

In this case, its about quality, not quanitity - of both trained personnel and equipment.







edit on 11/2/12 by neformore because: (no reason given)


If you can have both, that would be even better.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by NeverSleepingEyes
 


Given the large scale loss of life suffered by us and our military in the fight to secure Belgium's political and national sovereignty, it would be a terrible insult if the Belgians did not support us in this matter. This applies to all EU nations, we give give give to you, now you can give to us practical support with regards to this matter.
edit on 11-2-2012 by nocollegeonsunday because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by nocollegeonsunday
reply to post by NeverSleepingEyes
 


Given the large scale loss of life suffered by us and our military in the fight to secure Belgium's political and national sovereignty, it would be a terrible insult if the Belgians did not support us in this matter. This applies to all EU nations, we give give give to you, now you can give to us practical support with regards to this matter.
edit on 11-2-2012 by nocollegeonsunday because: (no reason given)


in that case i'm sorry but i'll have to insult you terribly as i don't buy the version of the facts,
and i don't see any reason why belgians (or any other person for that matter) should support aggression that doesn't serve the needs of ordinary people.

as for saving europe from the nazi's, please see my earlier post and - in case you shouldn't have done this before (which i don't suggest, for clarity's sake) research the role of the American and British elites in pre-war times. how should we feel grateful to those who allowed it to happen in the first place, having all the means but no interests to prevent it?



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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I'm english and i aint buying it.

Manuel "Belgrano" was one of Argentinas founding fathers and created the argentine flag.

forget all this war bullcrap, come to manchester city and watch Sergio Kun Aguero, and Zab Man.

I will never fight another mans war.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 12:30 PM
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I petsonally loved the reference to the Beatles 'let's give peace a chance' spouted from Argentina! If only they weren't spouting the same in 1982!!

I'd hate it if hostilities broke out and i'm hoping that a presence should more than deter them to try and retake the Falklands.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by Knights
I petsonally loved the reference to the Beatles 'let's give peace a chance' spouted from Argentina! If only they weren't spouting the same in 1982!!

I'd hate it if hostilities broke out and i'm hoping that a presence should more than deter them to try and retake the Falklands.


I know, they are so two faced and hypocritical.

If it was'nt for their invasion in 1982 then there would not be the UK military hardware that is now stationed down there. It is there to deter another 1982 as the Argentinians cannot be trusted.

One other thing that I failed to mention in my earlier posts is that a few years ago, the Argentinians had put into their constitution that the Falklands is theirs. Whilst this piece of legislation is in place, there is no way in hell that the UK Government will talk to Argentina about any issues over 'ownership' of the Falklands. So you see from all of these recent events, it is the Argentinians that have 'ramped up' the anti, not the British.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by Wotan
 


The Republic of Ireland claimed Northern Ireland in their constitution.

And UK plc talked to them, eventually, after they had been bombed to the negotiating table.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 01:57 PM
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They will certainly need the help. An expert on NPR the other day said Argentina had only six ships available and 20 planes. I assume the six ships were warships of some kind and the planes were also some types of warbirds.

Britian has a few more of each unless they have recently done even more cuts.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by Aliensun
 

Need help! Now that is an understatement. An old rule of thumb about war is that for an assured victory you need 3 times the throw weight of the other side. I strongly suspect the UK could easily muster that without resorting to nuclear.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by Aliensun
They will certainly need the help. An expert on NPR the other day said Argentina had only six ships available and 20 planes. I assume the six ships were warships of some kind and the planes were also some types of warbirds.

Britian has a few more of each unless they have recently done even more cuts.



If this is true, I have no doubt in my mind that the islands could be defended quite safely by HMS Belfast on her own.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by Aliensun
They will certainly need the help. An expert on NPR the other day said Argentina had only six ships available and 20 planes. I assume the six ships were warships of some kind and the planes were also some types of warbirds.

Britian has a few more of each unless they have recently done even more cuts.



They have far more than 20 aircraft, as do Venezuela (who have F-16's etc):

en.wikipedia.org...

Anyway, why would the Argentine Govt go through the process of making the Falklands a massive issue, pumping up their people, making them feel angry, bitter, and resentful, and then...

do nothing?

Where would all of those angry, bitter, resentful people vent their frustrations? At the useless Govt that winds them all up and then cant or wont do anything about it?

Rather than being short term political gain (and I don't see what that is - the Argentine general election was only last October, she has no need to try and gain short term gains), it could be political suicide.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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Argentine arms purchases 2000-2010 Sorry about format. Try cut and paste into notepad/wordpad/openoffice

Transfers of major conventional weapons: sorted by supplier. Deals with deliveries or orders made for year range 2000 to 2010
Note: The ÔNo. delivered/producedÕ and the ÔYear(s) of deliveriesÕ columns refer to all deliveries since the beginning of the contract. Deals in which the recipient was involved in the production of the weapon system are listed separately. The ÔCommentsÕ column includes publicly reported information on the value of the deal. Information on the sources and methods used in the collection of the data, and explanations of the conventions, abbreviations and acronyms, can be found at URL . The SIPRI Arms Transfers Database is continuously updated as new information becomes available.
Source: SIPRI Arms Transfers Database
Information generated: 11 February 2012



Supplier/ Year Year(s) No.
recipient (R) No. Weapon Weapon of order/ of delivered/
or licenser (L) ordered designation description licence deliveries produced Comments


Austria
L: Argentina (4) SK-105A1 Kurassier Light tank (2006) 2007 4 SK-105 chassis; fitted with turret from AMX-13 tank in Argentina; Argentine designation Patagon

Brazil
R: Argentina 1 Bell-212/UH-1N Helicopter 2007 2007 1 Second-hand

China
R: Argentina 4 WZ-551 APC 2008 2010 4 $2.6 m deal; WZ-551B1 version; for Argentinian UN forces

Finland
R: Argentina 8 W-12 Diesel engine (2007) For 4 Fassmer-1850 OPV from Germany

France
R: Argentina 10 Anemone Aircraft radar 2009 Ex-French; for modernization of Super Etendard combat aircraft

Germany (FRG)
R: Argentina 12 PC-2.5 Diesel engine 1979 1985-2004 12 For 6 MEKO-140 (Espora) frigates from FRG

L: Argentina 6 MEKO-140 Frigate 1979 1985-2004 6 Argentine designation Espora; delivery of last 2 delayed 10-15 years until 2000-2004 for lack of funding (components delivered in 1980s)
4 Fassmer-1850 OPV 2007 'POM' programme; delivery from 2011

Israel
R: Argentina 5 EL/M-2022 MP aircraft radar 1989 1995-2002 (5) Part of $30 m modernization of 5 S-2E ASW aircraft to S-2ET in Israel

Italy
R: Argentina 20 Palmaria 155mm turret SPG turret (1985) 1996-2000 (20) Turret for Argentine TAMSE VCA-155 self-propelled gun; turrets delivered 1986-87 but production and delivery of VCA-155 delayed

Netherlands
R: Argentina 6 DA-05 Air search radar (1979) 1985-2004 6 For 6 MEKO-140 (Espora) frigates from FRG
6 WM-20 Fire control radar (1979) 1985-2004 6 For 6 MEKO-140 (Espora) frigates from FRG; WM-28 version

Russia
R: Argentina 2 Mi-8/Mi-17/Hip-H Helicopter 2010 EUR20 m deal; Mi-17V-5 version; for SAR and use on Antarctica; delivery 2011

Spain
R: Argentina 4 AN/FPS-20 Air search radar 2007 2008-2010 (4) Ex-Spanish; FPS-113 version; aid
4 AN/FPS-6 Height-finding radar 2007 2008-2010 (4) Ex-Spanish; FPS-89 version; aid
1 S763-LANZA Air search radar (2007) 2007 1 Ex-Spanish; aid

USA
R: Argentina 10 TPE-331 Turboprop 1989 1995-2002 (10) For modernization of 5 S-2E ASW aircraft to S-2ET in Israel
25 Bell-205/UH-1H Helicopter (1993) 1992-2001 (25) Ex-US; aid
36 A-4AR Skyhawk FGA aircraft 1994 1997-2000 (36) Ex-US; $208-282 m deal; A-4M/OA-4M version modernized to A-4AR version; incl 8 modernized in USA and 28 in Argentina with US components; incl 4 TA-4AR
16 Bell-205/UH-1H Helicopter 1996 1997-2000 16 Ex-US; aid
25 M-106 Self-propelled mortar 1999 2000 (25) Ex-US; 'EDA' aid
57 M-113 APC 1999 2000 (57) Ex-US; aid
20 M-113 APC 1999 2000 20 Ex-US; aid; M-577 CP version
(21) BGM-71 TOW Anti-tank missile 2000 2002 21 BGM-71E TOW-2A version
(216) AIM-9L/M Sidewinder SRAAM (2001) 2002-2003 (216) AIM-9L version; for A-4AR combat aircraft
2 Hughes-300/TH-55 Light helicopter (2001) 2001 2 Schweizer-300C version; for Coast Guard
1 SA-315B Lama Light helicopter 2001 2001 1 Second-hand; incl for SAR
6 TFE-731 Turbofan (2001) 2008-2009 (6) For 6 AT-63 (Phase-2) trainer/combat aircraft produced in Argentina; TFE-731-2C-2N version
2 AN/TPS-43 Air search radar 2003 2004 2 Ex-US; aid
3 AN/TPS-43 Air search radar 2004 2004 (3) Ex-US; $2 m deal
9 Bell-205/UH-1 Huey-2 Helicopter 2004 2005-2008 (9) Argentinian UH-1H rebuilt to Huey-2; incl 8 assembled in Argentina
(16) TFE-731 Turbofan (2005) For 10 AT-63 (Phase-3) trainer/combat aircraft produced in Argentina; TFE-731-40R version
(5) Bell-205/UH-1H Helicopter (2006) 2007 5 Ex-US; 1 more for spares only
4 S-61/H-3A Sea King Helicopter 2007 2008-2009 4 Ex-US; $18-22 m deal; modernized before delivery; UH-3H version; 2 more for spares only
(36) Bell-205/UH-1 Huey-2 Helicopter 2009 2009-2010 (4) Argentinian UH-1H rebuilt to Huey-2; assembled in Argentina (possibly incl production of components in Argentina)
5 Bell-206/OH-58 Light helicopter 2009 2010 5 For training




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