reply to post by TheRedneck
ABSOLUTELY INDEED.
Thank you. Sigh.
imho, physical abuse is striking or handling a child in a way that leaves marks, bruises etc.
Warming their hide is not abuse.
However, the PTB are setting up to use every fool excuse in the book to label parental behavior "abuse"
IN ORDER TO
Detach children from parents wholesale.
IN ORDER TO
train/ brainwash/ condition/ inculcatge
ALL CHILDREN into compliant little puppets for the Marxist globalist machine.
At this stage, they are winding up as much rebellion on the part of as many children as possible. They may well come to the defense of the daughter in
a big way and make her a poster child for 'emancipation' of teens from their parents.
They want the chaos of rebellious teens.
They also want the excuse of poor abused teens in order to establish the MANDATE that parents are too incompetent; tooooo traditional; toooooo OLD
ORDER; toooooo 'dysfunctional' to rear children . . . therefore . . .
THE STATE MUST DO IT "for the children."
GAG. NOPE. It's to help establish tyranny over all.
I'm concerned this father will be made to look like a psychotic looney when his worst offense is being a somewhat aggressive attachment disordered
poorly trained parent who really wanted to help his daughter learn enough respect for authority to function in society.
Anyway--THANKS TONS FOR YOUR REALITY BASED PERSPECTIVE.
May parents forever be able to rear children sanely to maturity according to their healthy spiritual and relational parental values.
Parenting 101: how to instill respect for others., page 8
privacy
reply posted on 12-2-2012 @ 05:45 AM by BO XIAN
reply to post by outandopen
There's too much truth to your assertions.
Certainly respect is earned and must be a mutual thing.
However . . . I don't think your labels are overly useful.
Not all hippies are horrible parents.
Not all hippies are wonderful parents.
Not all rednecks are horrible parents.
Not all rednecks are ideal parents.
Neither hippies nor rednecks learn proper childrearing habits in attachment disordered childhoods.
Virtually all good learning of good childrearing practices comes from a good SOURCE.
Healthy parents and/or other Mentors are the best sources.
There's too much truth to your assertions.
Certainly respect is earned and must be a mutual thing.
However . . . I don't think your labels are overly useful.
Not all hippies are horrible parents.
Not all hippies are wonderful parents.
Not all rednecks are horrible parents.
Not all rednecks are ideal parents.
Neither hippies nor rednecks learn proper childrearing habits in attachment disordered childhoods.
Virtually all good learning of good childrearing practices comes from a good SOURCE.
Healthy parents and/or other Mentors are the best sources.
reply posted on 12-2-2012 @ 05:50 AM by BO XIAN
reply to post by L00kingGlass
Uhhhhhhhh . . . NOPE . . .
disrespect is bound up in the heart of man.
Children do not NEED TO LEARN rebellion. It's in the human heart.
Children NATURALLY WANT THEIR OWN WAY regardless.
Children are naturally selfish.
etc. etc.
Certainly plenty of parents never learned proper respect of much of anything--including themselves . . . and consequently . . . they don't TEACH respect well, if at all.
However, respect must be EARNED AND TAUGHT.
Adults are just as disrespectful as kids are these days, that is definitely where kids are learning it from. And the horrible thing is, adults should know better.
Uhhhhhhhh . . . NOPE . . .
disrespect is bound up in the heart of man.
Children do not NEED TO LEARN rebellion. It's in the human heart.
Children NATURALLY WANT THEIR OWN WAY regardless.
Children are naturally selfish.
etc. etc.
Certainly plenty of parents never learned proper respect of much of anything--including themselves . . . and consequently . . . they don't TEACH respect well, if at all.
However, respect must be EARNED AND TAUGHT.
reply posted on 12-2-2012 @ 05:53 AM by BO XIAN
reply to post by Annee
Sounds like a great method. Will share that one. Thanks.
On average, how long does it take?
Sounds like a great method. Will share that one. Thanks.
On average, how long does it take?
reply posted on 12-2-2012 @ 05:56 AM by BO XIAN
reply to post by Saytan75
To him, his gun was merely an effective tool for the task.
I think you are reading far too much into his use of a gun.
If anything, he has likely catered too much to his daughter with stuff instead of bonding emotionally with her in a mutually understanding way.
Buying relationship never works.
To him, his gun was merely an effective tool for the task.
I think you are reading far too much into his use of a gun.
If anything, he has likely catered too much to his daughter with stuff instead of bonding emotionally with her in a mutually understanding way.
Buying relationship never works.
reply posted on 12-2-2012 @ 05:59 AM by BO XIAN
reply to post by L00kingGlass
I greatly agree.
And all that needed proper handling waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy earlier--years ago.
AT this point, he sounded like he was playing 'catch-up' and that not real skillfully.
So, I wouldn't say he handled it perfectly. I think he handled it understandably given his own childhood and values.
By the looks of things, it was the rant of a spoiled brat. She had been warned once already, and did it again anyhow. She was upset she had to do work, and was disrespectful to the poor woman hired to clean their house.
This spoiled brat needed a severe punishment or a shock to her system to make her think twice about her horrible behavior/mentality. Most parents are not doing a proper job, as we can see by the current state of society: entitled disrespectful children who go on to become entitled disrespectful adults.
I greatly agree.
And all that needed proper handling waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy earlier--years ago.
AT this point, he sounded like he was playing 'catch-up' and that not real skillfully.
So, I wouldn't say he handled it perfectly. I think he handled it understandably given his own childhood and values.
reply posted on 12-2-2012 @ 09:46 AM by Revealation
reply to post by TheRedneck
REDNECK, just wanted to say what's up? How you doing? It's been awhile.
We live in a society that empowers and embraces the weak and caters to their every whim. This is why they haven't got a backbone and a majority of this alleged BULLYING/cybervbullying is nothing but the result of a childs bruised ego which is uncapable of handling any criticism whatsoever.
The reason they can't handle anything is because of the way their parents and teachers are raising them. Everything they do is sugar coated and pampered. From the responses of many here I have the image of you carrying your kid around in a purse like paris hilton and her dog. 1/2 of you adults have nothing but unstable, fragile and shattered egos and you wonder why your kids are weak.
The fact is we need to raise and ground our children in reality, because the majority of this country is nothing but a bunch of spoiled brats who can't handle the slightest inconvenience, nevermind when a real problem arises. The first response to the situation is a total breakdown and suicide.
My son is 18 and he's seen me on the occasional flipout. I've never laid a hand on him, EVER (accept to show my love) and he has nothing but respect and love back. He's learned lessons most of the adults here probably never will.............................. and from his own words, he tells me that the structure of our current society is doing NOTHING but setting our kids up for FAILURE.
You all need to wake the hell up and come out of your spoiled fantasies. Deal with realities problems and overcomne adversity. It builds character and strength which in turn we teach our children.
REDNECK, just wanted to say what's up? How you doing? It's been awhile.
We live in a society that empowers and embraces the weak and caters to their every whim. This is why they haven't got a backbone and a majority of this alleged BULLYING/cybervbullying is nothing but the result of a childs bruised ego which is uncapable of handling any criticism whatsoever.
The reason they can't handle anything is because of the way their parents and teachers are raising them. Everything they do is sugar coated and pampered. From the responses of many here I have the image of you carrying your kid around in a purse like paris hilton and her dog. 1/2 of you adults have nothing but unstable, fragile and shattered egos and you wonder why your kids are weak.
The fact is we need to raise and ground our children in reality, because the majority of this country is nothing but a bunch of spoiled brats who can't handle the slightest inconvenience, nevermind when a real problem arises. The first response to the situation is a total breakdown and suicide.
My son is 18 and he's seen me on the occasional flipout. I've never laid a hand on him, EVER (accept to show my love) and he has nothing but respect and love back. He's learned lessons most of the adults here probably never will.............................. and from his own words, he tells me that the structure of our current society is doing NOTHING but setting our kids up for FAILURE.
You all need to wake the hell up and come out of your spoiled fantasies. Deal with realities problems and overcomne adversity. It builds character and strength which in turn we teach our children.
reply posted on 12-2-2012 @ 10:39 AM by Enderdog
Originally posted by SoymilkAlaska
reply to post by Trexter Ziam
the daughter wasn't wrong in her post.
she described that way she honestly felt.
and she felt angry. oppressed. a slave.
she felt as if she was wronged.
and what does the father do? wrong her again.
im going to laugh SO hard when that girl doesn't pay him back a single CENT.
I'd just like to point something out to you here. You are expressing your outrage, in this forum, at something you feel is unfair. And you have every right to do that. AND I understand those feelings, having had them many times myself. But, with the perspective that comes from having lived some thirty some years as an adult....and knowing which kinds of internal mental strategies work, and which are blind alleys and lead to dead ends, I feel an urge to perhaps ask you to consider if the one you are currently using, will benefit you throughout your life.
People motivate themselves in various ways. You have been motivated to respond to this thread, because it touches something in you, that you feel strongly about. Am I correct in that? That feeling caused you to "act" by responding...by taking your time and energy to write and read. This is an attempt to "do something" about what you feel is an injustice, it would seem from here. And I applaud your desire to do that. And I also invite you to consider how well your own mental and emotional strategy for this kind of situation, works for you, in your own life.
Because let's face it, any time we get incensed about something, it hits home for the very reason that we have something similar in some way, in our own experiences, that causes us to feel frustration or sympathy for one party or the other. True? IOWs, in order to think about it at all, we necessarily have to imagine ourselves in one or the other's position, and take a side. And we all do that, all the time. It's just human.
But, once we are in that position, we aren't really thinking about that other person or their circumstances any more. We don't actually have enough details to do that. So we tend to fill in that part with our own details, in order to maintain our chain of emotional thought and motivation. Not even realizing we are doing it usually. That's normal. We even have physical structures in our brains for it, that scientists call mirror cells. And those cells literally light up on scans when we are experiencing thoughts and emotions, to things that are happening to someone else. It's how we engage with our fellow humans,. And without those mirror cells, we would not even be able to enjoy a movie, because we would not be become sufficiently engaged enough to do so....let alone act to stop a genocide or something big like that. In a very real way, that is what makes us human.
Ultimately it comes down to whether or not our own personal strategies of mind, get us closer to happiness, or distance us from being content.What I noticed about your response was mostly the last line. People also have a need to close emotional loops that we have opened, in order to continue on with our lives. We wouldn't get much done if we kept all that stuff going all the time. So we seek some kind of closure, to free up our attention for something else.
Your loop closing strategy seems to be one where you imagine some future event, that both proves you "right" and provides for some kind of justice in the situation. However, since you will never know how close it was to what ACTUALLY results, It bears little practical predictive value. "Kinda" feels like closure...but doesn't gain you any real knowledge to hone decision making in the future. And since you predict an event...(you laughing about it)...that of necessity, will NOT come to pass, since the trigger for that event is outside your control, you leave it to improbable random chance that will dictate if you ever get the opportunity to "actually" laugh about it.
So, that loop isn't really closed. It's just paused indefinitely. How many of those do you think you can tolerate in your life, leaving all those loops running in the background? It's kind of like all those useless programs on your computer that eat up memory, but that you don't actually use. Do I really need a little thingy to constantly monitor if my caps lock key is on, or if Java feels a need to "upgrade" me, if I could be using that processing power on some task I actually want and need?
What important tasks are you engaged in in your present life? What relationships are important NOW? If you could close all your un-needed trivial programs by coming up with a better way to close those loops permanently and on the fly, how would you do that? I'm only asking because you may have a kid of your own, now or in the future, who needs all your best focus, in order to turn out as a loving and responsible human being. I know you will do well in that.
reply posted on 12-2-2012 @ 10:51 AM by TheRedneck
reply to post by outandopen
You appear to be attempting to categorize all known material in the Universe into two groups: humans and property. I happen to believe that is incorrect.
Children are human, obviously. They are not property, as evidenced by laws that (rightly) prevent doing harm to them. The laptop was property; the child was a charge. The goal of every (decent) parent is simply to raise a well-adjusted individual.
That is going to entail quite a bit more than simply being compassionate. What do you do when your child develops a desire to stick things in an electrical outlet? The old school way to handle the problem is to spank the kid with increasing levels of severity, in the thought that it is better to get a few whacks on the behind than to allow the child to find out the hard way that electricity can be deadly. The modern way to handle it is to verbally scold the child (which can result in amusement for the child) and buy special cover plates to keep the child out of the electrical sockets until they can hopefully "grow out of it".
Foresight tells me that the old way is better. Why? Because I can only control access to the outlets in my home, not those in a friend's home or those in a school or other public building. The old way teaches the child that their actions are wrong and should not be done; the new way does not do so, but rather tries to prevent the ultimately unpreventable.
Congratulations then! As has been said, results triumph theory.
I have not been so lucky with teachers. Some of those who I have come into contact with have been disrespectful to my kids. In a way, I consider that a good thing; better they encounter adversity when I am around to back them up and teach them from the experience than to encounter such when there is no one there to give them support. May your children never experience anything their childhood has not prepared them for, or at least may they be capable of handling it.
I have no concerns in that vein for my children.
Apparently nothing... that results thing again.
But here's where the problem really starts. Why do you apparently believe that because I spank my children it follows I do not show them love or even use alternate methods when applicable? Why do you apparently believe that what happened to your children happens identically to every other child? Why do you apparently believe that all children react to their environment the same way and therefore can be disciplined effectively by the same methods?
Here's an example: there used to be this family that lived next door to me. They were on welfare and dirt poor with three children. One was grown and was desperately trying to find a job, but had never been exposed to a working role model; I mentored the boy myself until he was able to make his way and move out. The other son was a bit slow mentally and younger, a well-mannered young lad; I spent as much time talking with him as I could to try and help him out as well. The daughter however... well...
She was 14 when they moved in. She was constantly the source of screaming arguments, primarily because of her 'boyfriends'. The parents were pretty much afraid to do anything more, since she had realized that a single phone call to DHS would get her parents in trouble. By age 15, she was a full-fledged whore, and I use that term in the most clinical manner. There were rumors she had had a couple of abortions already. They moved out when she had just turned 16... but the girl didn't. She refused to go. Instead she moved in with her present 'boyfriend', who was a known drug dealer in the area.
A few months later, I got a phone call from the police department. The officer on the other end asked if I knew her. I said yes, she used to live next door but the family had moved. He asked me to come down to the station so I did. There she sat, crying. They had found her sleeping in my carport. Her 'boyfriend' had kicked her out and she had nowhere to go.
I found out that during those months, she had been beaten, abused, raped multiple times, and sold as a prostitute. At age 16. Still a baby in my book.
I wanted to cry.
(continued)
When will adults learn they can't beat yell and lecture respect into there kids. Respectful children have respectful parents. Loving parents that actually treat their kids like humans not like property.
You appear to be attempting to categorize all known material in the Universe into two groups: humans and property. I happen to believe that is incorrect.
Children are human, obviously. They are not property, as evidenced by laws that (rightly) prevent doing harm to them. The laptop was property; the child was a charge. The goal of every (decent) parent is simply to raise a well-adjusted individual.
That is going to entail quite a bit more than simply being compassionate. What do you do when your child develops a desire to stick things in an electrical outlet? The old school way to handle the problem is to spank the kid with increasing levels of severity, in the thought that it is better to get a few whacks on the behind than to allow the child to find out the hard way that electricity can be deadly. The modern way to handle it is to verbally scold the child (which can result in amusement for the child) and buy special cover plates to keep the child out of the electrical sockets until they can hopefully "grow out of it".
Foresight tells me that the old way is better. Why? Because I can only control access to the outlets in my home, not those in a friend's home or those in a school or other public building. The old way teaches the child that their actions are wrong and should not be done; the new way does not do so, but rather tries to prevent the ultimately unpreventable.
Yes, I do have kids, 4 of them. The 2 that are in school are excellent children, teachers love them Perfect scores. Respectful to their teachers. I am respectful to my kids and guess what their teachers are respectful to them.
Congratulations then! As has been said, results triumph theory.
I have not been so lucky with teachers. Some of those who I have come into contact with have been disrespectful to my kids. In a way, I consider that a good thing; better they encounter adversity when I am around to back them up and teach them from the experience than to encounter such when there is no one there to give them support. May your children never experience anything their childhood has not prepared them for, or at least may they be capable of handling it.
I have no concerns in that vein for my children.
All us modern parents and our "hippy" crap. Loving our kids instead of beating or threatening them. What's wrong with us.
Apparently nothing... that results thing again.
But here's where the problem really starts. Why do you apparently believe that because I spank my children it follows I do not show them love or even use alternate methods when applicable? Why do you apparently believe that what happened to your children happens identically to every other child? Why do you apparently believe that all children react to their environment the same way and therefore can be disciplined effectively by the same methods?
Here's an example: there used to be this family that lived next door to me. They were on welfare and dirt poor with three children. One was grown and was desperately trying to find a job, but had never been exposed to a working role model; I mentored the boy myself until he was able to make his way and move out. The other son was a bit slow mentally and younger, a well-mannered young lad; I spent as much time talking with him as I could to try and help him out as well. The daughter however... well...
She was 14 when they moved in. She was constantly the source of screaming arguments, primarily because of her 'boyfriends'. The parents were pretty much afraid to do anything more, since she had realized that a single phone call to DHS would get her parents in trouble. By age 15, she was a full-fledged whore, and I use that term in the most clinical manner. There were rumors she had had a couple of abortions already. They moved out when she had just turned 16... but the girl didn't. She refused to go. Instead she moved in with her present 'boyfriend', who was a known drug dealer in the area.
A few months later, I got a phone call from the police department. The officer on the other end asked if I knew her. I said yes, she used to live next door but the family had moved. He asked me to come down to the station so I did. There she sat, crying. They had found her sleeping in my carport. Her 'boyfriend' had kicked her out and she had nowhere to go.
I found out that during those months, she had been beaten, abused, raped multiple times, and sold as a prostitute. At age 16. Still a baby in my book.
I wanted to cry.
(continued)
reply posted on 12-2-2012 @ 10:51 AM by TheRedneck
reply to post by outandopen
(continued)
I didn't want to, mainly because I didn't want to be accused of anything untoward, but out of pity I drove her to her parents new house that night. She still didn't want to go, but after an hour or so of talking to them over the phone, she agreed.
Now, these were not good parents in my eyes by any means, but could things have been different if they had been able to connect paddle to butt, would she have perhaps been spared some of that horror? Why did their approach work some for the boys and not for her? Was it worth her experiences at 16 to prevent the possibility she might have been upset over earlier discipline?
This is the seriousness of parenting issues. This is what can happen, what too often does happen, when someone is denied discipline at an early age. This is what parents world over want to avoid.
This is why no one, I repeat no one was able to tell me I could not spank my children when they were younger. To do so was, and is, in my mind, a direct assault on the children... no different than someone beating on them in my presence. How much do I love my kids? Enough to protect them at all costs from whatever is threatening them.
Your way worked. Congratulations. I am happy for you. But do not ever say I do not love my children.
Ever.
TheRedneck
(continued)
I didn't want to, mainly because I didn't want to be accused of anything untoward, but out of pity I drove her to her parents new house that night. She still didn't want to go, but after an hour or so of talking to them over the phone, she agreed.
Now, these were not good parents in my eyes by any means, but could things have been different if they had been able to connect paddle to butt, would she have perhaps been spared some of that horror? Why did their approach work some for the boys and not for her? Was it worth her experiences at 16 to prevent the possibility she might have been upset over earlier discipline?
This is the seriousness of parenting issues. This is what can happen, what too often does happen, when someone is denied discipline at an early age. This is what parents world over want to avoid.
This is why no one, I repeat no one was able to tell me I could not spank my children when they were younger. To do so was, and is, in my mind, a direct assault on the children... no different than someone beating on them in my presence. How much do I love my kids? Enough to protect them at all costs from whatever is threatening them.
Your way worked. Congratulations. I am happy for you. But do not ever say I do not love my children.
Ever.
TheRedneck
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