Parenting 101: how to instill respect for others., page 13

reply to post by daskakik

Actually you don't know what his original intentions were.

Neither do you. But we do know what his actions were, and he never asked for income from this video. Ergo, there is no evidence he made it with the intention of profit. I find it hard to understand why you insist on believing he did so in the absence of even circumstantial evidence.

If that someone was my daughter I would do it face to face, not on the net.

Here again is that assembly-line, one-size-fits-all thinking. He already did just that! It did not work! Continuing to do the same thing over and over while expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

I say they are both wrong, but I will be more understanding of a teen that acts childish than an adult that does the same.

I absolutely disagree. A teen can never become an adult by coddling. They have to be made aware of their responsibilities and consequences as an adult before they can know how to be an adult. Mistakes are one thing, and I believe everyone can agree that teenagers and young adults will make mistakes along more frequently than seasoned adults, but posting a rant full of lies and unfounded accusations in a public forum is not a mistake; it is an intentional act of hatred that has no place in society.

This time, she got embarrassed and lost her laptop. If it happened to someone other than her parent, she would be looking at a lawsuit at best and physical violence at worst. Do you really believe it is preferable to let her off scot-free this time knowing full well that next time may literally be dangerous to her?

Your just making excuses on his behalf. Nobody put a gun to his head and forced him to tape his vid and upload it. He could have chosen another way.

No, he could not! That is the whole point; the teen was so far out of control already that anything less could have been considered child neglect. She chose the venue; no one put a gun to her head and demanded she post lies on the Internet. She did, figuratively at least, put a gun to his head by her actions... his only possible choice was to confront and discipline her as openly as she disrespected him, or to do nothing of consequence and abandon her to her own base instincts and allow her to destroy her own life through her actions.

Those are the choices he faced, like it or not. If you think the latter is preferable, by all means you are entitled to your opinion. But I doubt you do.

Or not handled at all because the parents never found out and the kids ended up growing up just fine. That is why I keep saying that this wasn't a big deal.

I'm sorry; that is a fantasy. Children do not raise themselves to be happy successful adults, and parents who do not discipline effectively have dysfunctional children. Those are constants that have held for untold centuries, just as sure as putting a lit match to a tank of gasoline results in a fire. Belief for or against either is irrelevant.

Wrong, had he approached her and told her I printed this off of your FB and then taken the laptop and shot it full of holes, he would have still handled things in the same way, with the same effect.

Proof, please? He had already confronted her once and that did no good.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by daskakik
Neither do you. But we do know what his actions were, and he never asked for income from this video. Ergo, there is no evidence he made it with the intention of profit. I find it hard to understand why you insist on believing he did so in the absence of even circumstantial evidence.

Actually he posted that he had monetized the video so I don't see how that is circumstancial evidence.

Here is someone who says the whole vid is a hoax:

“It just so happens that I know a little bit more about Tommy Jordan than the majority of you know…This video that was posted by Mr. Jordan is fake…Mr Jordan’s video was an attempt to create a viral video…the laptop computer did not belong to his daughter…it’s just an old laptop he had laying down there…the whole thing is a hoax…his daughter didn’t post any of these comments about him…”

Here again is that assembly-line, one-size-fits-all thinking. He already did just that! It did not work! Continuing to do the same thing over and over while expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

How is me choosing to do things my way one-size-fits-all thinking.

I absolutely disagree. A teen can never become an adult by coddling.

You can disagree all you want but well ajusted adults that have been raised by coddling prove you wrong. Whose thinking one-size-fits-all now.

Do you really believe it is preferable to let her off scot-free this time knowing full well that next time may literally be dangerous to her?

Knowing full well that next time may be dangerous. What you can see the future know?

No, he could not! That is the whole point; the teen was so far out of control already that anything less could have been considered child neglect.

More hyperbole. No a gun was not put to his head. I can't believe you can claim this but dismiss the dad actually shooting a gun being a threat of violence towards the girl. Not saying it is, but that would be more accurate than what you're trying to do here.

I'm sorry; that is a fantasy. Children do not raise themselves to be happy successful adults, and parents who do not discipline effectively have dysfunctional children.

Didn't say they raise themselves I said that certain types of venting can be taken for what they are and overlooked and still end up with functional adults.

Proof, please? He had already confronted her once and that did no good.

Did he shoot her laptop that other time? I think not, so who's to say it wouldn't have worked.

reply to post by daskakik

Actually he posted that he had monetized the video so I don't see how that is circumstancial evidence.

After the fact... not before.

Here is someone who says the whole vid is a hoax:

Nice vid, and I will admit that I had my doubts after watching it. However, I caught a few things:

• He seems to spend an awful lot of time repeating himself on a few points... primarily that Mr. Jordan has a wife who makes a good income, Mr. Jordan does a lot with the Internet, has "too much time on his hands", and that he is expecting Mr. Jordan to accuse him of "betraying his trust". I have found through the years that when someone makes repeated statements like that, they are attempting to put forth something that isn't completely true.
  
  
• The claim is made that Mr. Jordan is not an IT technician. However, the very site he references states that Mr. Jordan is in fact an IT technician and has worked in that field before settling down with his wife, the veterinarian.
  
  
• The claim is made that Mr. Jordan is no more than a "go-for" in his wife's office and not an IT specialist. The fact is that most IT technicians are glorified "go-for"s... well-paid, highly trained, and indispensable "go-for"s.
  
  
• I also checked out the other sites... like the one where Mr. Jordan has published a book. It does not mention availability in print, but as an e-book... so he paid someone to print books which are available in e-format?
  
  
• The "one man's junk" site is far from "junky"... it is somewhat like craigslist, an electronic classified page. It also has a pretty well-designed layout, indicative of someone who has some expertise in IT technology.
  
  
• One Man's Junk is not even listed as owned by Tommy Jordan. It is shown as belonging to William Guyther, also of North Carolina. Now, is it possible that Jordan maintains the site for Mr. Guyther?
  
  
• People have this annoying habit (and this goes back to the same thing I mentioned before: blaming people for making money) of assuming that if they cannot see someone working, that someone must be goofing off. Wrong. I ran into that when I operated a successful design service from my home; the neighbors were convinced I must be doing something 'wrong' because I didn't leave at 6:00 in the morning and stay gone all day. Even large businesses have similar situations: how many false rumors have circulated about Google or YouTube?

Now I may be wrong and this guy may know exactly what he is talking about... but I doubt it. He's wrong about Jordan's IT experience, he is misinformed about what Jordan probably does with his wife in business, and he exhibits an inordinate amount of jealousy over Jordan's other endeavors. So, based on that, I will continue to believe the video this thread is about and chalk this one up to a cranky, jealous old man who feels a desperate need to prove his ignorance to the world.

How is me choosing to do things my way one-size-fits-all thinking.

You can do things you way all you want; the problem is you do not want others to do things their way, as evidenced by your refusal to try and understand the situation here.

You can disagree all you want but well ajusted adults that have been raised by coddling prove you wrong.

I don't know very many of those; the ones I know who have been coddled instead of trained have always grown up to be bums, hate-filled, or lazy/shiftless.

Knowing full well that next time may be dangerous. What you can see the future know?

No, I can see the past. I know that the sun rose in the east every morning since I was born, so I 'know' it will rise in the east tomorrow morning. I know that people have gotten themselves in trouble a great many times by slandering someone, and I fully expect that the next person who does so will get themselves into trouble as well.

No a gun was not put to his head.

fig·ur·a·tive
adjective

1. of the nature of or involving a figure of speech, especially a metaphor; metaphorical and not literal, as in figurative language .
   
2. metaphorically so called: His remark was a figurative boomerang.
   
3. abounding in or fond of figures of speech: Elizabethan poetry is highly figurative.
   
4. representing by means of a figure or likeness, as in drawing or sculpture.
   
5. representing by a figure or emblem; emblematic.

Source: dictionary.reference.com...

Didn't say they raise themselves I said that certain types of venting can be taken for what they are and overlooked and still end up with functional adults.

I can actually agree with you on this! But where I will disagree is when that is used as an excuse to overlook behavior in public that is unacceptable.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by daskakik
After the fact... not before.

But also after saying he wouldn't, so he is still a hypocrite.

Nice vid, and I will admit that I had my doubts after watching it. However, I caught a few things

Believe what you want but I doubted the guy before the claim of hoax.

Now I may be wrong and this guy may know exactly what he is talking about... but I doubt it. He's wrong about Jordan's IT experience, he is misinformed about what Jordan probably does with his wife in business, and he exhibits an inordinate amount of jealousy over Jordan's other endeavors. So, based on that, I will continue to believe the video this thread is about and chalk this one up to a cranky, jealous old man who feels a desperate need to prove his ignorance to the world.

He may not be wrong about Jordan's IT experience. I know lots of people that dabble in IT/web development. Doesn't make them IT guys in the professional sense. He even said that he would not have seen the daughter's post if it hadn't been for a FB account that they made for the family dog.

You can do things you way all you want; the problem is you do not want others to do things their way, as evidenced by your refusal to try and understand the situation here.

Nope, they could do things however they like, but it doesn't make them better parents than those who don't do things like them.

I don't know very many of those; the ones I know who have been coddled instead of trained have always grown up to be bums, hate-filled, or lazy/shiftless.

But the existance of even one throws your theory out the window. I know at least a couple.

No, I can see the past. I know that the sun rose in the east every morning since I was born, so I 'know' it will rise in the east tomorrow morning. I know that people have gotten themselves in trouble a great many times by slandering someone, and I fully expect that the next person who does so will get themselves into trouble as well.

People slander all the time without repercussions, so this theory is also flawed.

fig·ur·a·tive
adjective - of the nature of or involving a figure of speech, especially a metaphor; metaphorical and not literal, as in figurative language

But it wasn't even figuratively. He could have done a number of things besides what he did without a figurative gun figuratively blowing his brains out.

I can actually agree with you on this! But where I will disagree is when that is used as an excuse to overlook behavior in public that is unacceptable.

The problem is that "unacceptable" is subjective and what may be unacceptable for you may have no real effect on what type of adult a teen becomes, so it isn't just an excuse to overlook behaviour, but a calculated assessment that a parent makes.

reply to post by daskakik

He may not be wrong about Jordan's IT experience. I know lots of people that dabble in IT/web development. Doesn't make them IT guys in the professional sense. He even said that he would not have seen the daughter's post if it hadn't been for a FB account that they made for the family dog.

~sigh~

Tommy grew up on the Outer Banks of North Carolina. After graduating high school he went spent the next 14 years in Greenville, North Carolina where he opened his own IT Consulting and computer networking company, Twisted Networx. He traveled the world for a few years as a Project Manager for an overseas firm and eventually found and fell in love all over again with his high school sweetheart, Dr. Amy.

Emphasis mine

Source: spayneuter.bearcreekvet.net...

Nope, they could do things however they like, but it doesn't make them better parents than those who don't do things like them.

As I define "better parents", that definition being "a parent who successfully raises healthy, well-adjusted, competent children", it does make one a better parent if they perform that task better.

Perhaps your definition of a good parent is different?

But the existance of even one throws your theory out the window.

Incorrect. Humans are not machines and do not fit that one-size-fits-all mentality you again demonstrate. The existence of a substantial number of exceptions may cause the theory to be deemed incomplete, but it would require a majority of cases to "throw it out the window".

One or two cases among hundreds or thousands is an anomaly, not a rule.

People slander all the time without repercussions, so this theory is also flawed.

And the courts are packed with lawsuits concerning slander. The jails are packed with cases of violence started by slanderous (in the accused's mind anyway) comments. So what? Some get away with it; that does not make it right, nor does it make it acceptable, nor does it mean they will continue to get away with it without repercussions.

But it wasn't even figuratively. He could have done a number of things besides what he did without a figurative gun figuratively blowing his brains out.

I meant my comment concerning him having a gun to his head was figurative.

Sheesh...

The problem is that "unacceptable" is subjective...

NO!

Certain things are unacceptable in society. Slanderous lying comments are unacceptable, period. Unprovoked violence is unacceptable, period. Those are not open to interpretation.

You certainly live in a strange world where those are acceptable behavior. Remind me not to visit.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck

---

Some turning out OK and some not doesn't make your claims true. Fact is most people turn out OK.

Unacceptable to you doesn't really make it unacceptable to society.

Define whatever you like, however you like and I will just have to keep saying I disagree which shouldv'e been done posts ago and needs no further space on the thread.

The fact that he says one thing and does another makes me believe that the guy is probably in it for the money/publicity, so it could be that the only lesson he taught his daughter is that there is a sucker born every minute.

I like the BS line he posted on his FB where he says that if he had to he would do it again but without the cigarette. That he had promised his wife he would quit as soon as he could get enough money for Chantix. I have a hard time believing that he can't get the $100 a month that it costs. Yep, seems legit.

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by TheRedneck

---

Some turning out OK and some not doesn't make your claims true. Fact is most people turn out OK.

Unacceptable to you doesn't really make it unacceptable to society.

Define whatever you like, however you like and I will just have to keep saying I disagree which shouldv'e been done posts ago and needs no further space on the thread.

The fact that he says one thing and does another makes me believe that the guy is probably in it for the money/publicity, so it could be that the only lesson he taught his daughter is that there is a sucker born every minute.

I like the BS line he posted on his FB where he says that if he had to he would do it again but without the cigarette. That he had promised his wife he would quit as soon as he could get enough money for Chantix. I have a hard time believing that he can't get the $100 a month that it costs. Yep, seems legit.

edit on 19-2-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)

I've been reading this thread from the beginning. Your definition of society is not mine. Look at the headlines for christ's sake. Kids are not children anymore. Gangs running neighborhoods, even in affluent areas. Parents leaving it to society, as it morphs into an ever expanding grey area of political correctness, to raise their children.

I agree with everything....EVERYTHING...TheRedNeck has attempted to express in response to your limited viewpoint on child rearing.

Des

reply to post by TheRedneck

---

It's not that simple, you're lumping everyone in to the same group.

A person who protests for economic fairness and an end to corporate corruption is not the same as a thug in a ghetto looting for sneakers!

You seem to be suggesting that people who protest for democratic reasons in the face of violent thug cops are not justified in their actions and are somehow equal to those without respect. You're wrong.

I agree with the fact that society is declining and teenagers especially are increasingly disrespectful of everyone and everything, but you're mixing it up with your own biased views of protesters that you disagree with.

On the subject of a lack of morality and respect for others, there is a simple solution, take responsibility for your own children.

Too many adults leave the TV, teachers and state to raise their kids for them.

Things were different when I was growing up in the 80's and 90's. I didn't fear the wrath of my parents, but I did fear disappointing them and shaming them. These days, parents are mostly shameless themselves. They have no self control, no discipline, many barely talk to their children unless they're expressing disappointment or jealousy.

I've seen the effects of bad parenting by both my sisters. One of their sons - now 18 - is a spoiled brat who punches holes in doors if he doesn't get his way. He plays computer games every day and only works a day or two here and there when he needs some cash. He talks to people like he's some kind of arrogant rapper. He really is an ignorant fool, and although he's family and I'm obliged to love him, I do not like him at all.

The thing is, when he was a child and being doted on, all it took was for him to scream and shout long enough and my sister would give in. And I told her then that she was creating trouble for the future and not instilling any discipline in him at all.

I'm not a parent, but I have seen the out of control kids and their attitudes towards the world and the people around them, and the parents are ALWAYS - WITHOUT FAIL - TO BLAME.

Parents can blame everyone else all they like, they can say it's the TV, the music, the kids they hang around with... but it is the job of a parent to raise their child. Forget that career, forget your drinking buddies, you have a kid, that kid is your job 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for a minimum of 18 years! No more excuses.

reply to post by detachedindividual

Too many adults leave the TV, teachers and state to raise their kids for them.

That is exactly my point as well! Well said! This guy just pulled that plug.

I thought at first we were disagreeing, but apparently I was wrong.

TheRedneck

I don't blame the father for becoming angry at how his daughter disrespected her parents and the way she had shown her defiance. Any parent would have felt the same although I'm not sure if every parent would have done the same thing that Hannah's father did. Personally, I would say that the father might only make matters worst by using a gun. It would just give out a wrong message that it's only right to use a gun to make a point and scare someone.
I'm sure there's a more positive way to handle the situation. Try talking personally to your teen and find out why she's acting inappropriately, communicating properly with them will definitely go a long way.

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