Parenting 101: how to instill respect for others., page 11

reply to post by BO XIAN

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Until you've driven to the hospital covered in your child's vomit and diarrhea, you haven't experienced enough to offer valid advice on parenting.

Until you've seen your own child be mistreated on the playground by another child, and see their parent do nothing, and feel the anger at the situation, you haven't experienced enough to offer valid advice on parenting.

Until you have your child run into your room crying at 2AM about a bad dream, and let him crawl in bed with you and sleep next to you, you haven't experienced enough to offer valid advice on parenting.

Until you're in the middle of having sex and your child walks in and you gotta quickly abandon ship and become presentable, you haven't experienced enough to offer valid advice on parenting.

Until your child gets a bleeding rash all over his butt from so much diarrhea, and you have to spend a whole week constantly applying diaper cream while he cries in pain, you haven't experienced enough to offer valid advice on parenting.

And these are just a few experiences with toddlers, I didn't even mention all of the complicated issues with raising a teenager, because mine aren't teens, yet, so I haven't been there (crap...). You can't pretend you know more than parents when you don't have jack squat in experience raising a child who is literally an extension of your body and mind, a part of you. True, some "parents" are animals who don't deserve their children, but in my experience, those kinds of people are a rare exception. It's like anything, the bad ones always stick out in the crowd.

reply to post by Annee

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Thanks.

That's been mostly my sense . . . about a week is more reasonable and more functional.

I don't think most teens relate well to time of longer stretches. LOL. Instant gratification and all that.

My HYPOTHESIS is that

when the grounding time extends on and on, the teen sees no point in it and bitterness and resentment begin to seep in and escalate. Then, I think it becomes a case of a battle of the wills--a kind of power game.

It seems to me that when power games become the rule, norm, the priority . . . RELATIONSHIP takes a nose-dive.

A lot is lost.

Now, I also strongly believe that in MANY CASES AND SITUATIONS where teens and other aged children are

TESTING LIMITS--maybe a "power game" is exactly and only what is going on and it is quite FITTING AND NECESSARY for the adult to WIN such power games hands down.

All youth must understand that IN LIFE

There will ALWAYS be SOMEONE more powerful not that far away. And that if they always insist on getting into a p*ssing contest/ test of wills and power moves--then the individual is setting themselves up to learn a

LOT of things the very hardest way possible.

However, turning every petty exchange and issue into a power game just has not seemed to be very effective, funtioning parenting, to me.

I'm curious what your perspective would be on my observations about such above.

reply to post by OrphenFire

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Welllllllllllllllllllll . . . your perspective is understandable.

However,

I know of . . . guesstimating here . . . 500-700 parents who STRONGLY believe VERY DIFFERENTLY

about my inputs on parenting

because they were quite stuck and desperate in one or more ways . . . and my suggestions helped them get unstuck and reach a much more successful, redemptive and closer relationship with their children . . . and helped both them and their children learn needful things.

Your assertions seem to claim such would be impossible.

However, I assure you it was not only possible but fact.

BTW, I have had one or more of those experiences or at least experiences close to them--though, of course, not with my own flesh and blood. I don't know how I could have LOVED the children any MORE had they been my own flesh and blood.

Love and empathy are not exclusive to blood parents.

reply to post by TheRedneck

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Where I find fault is when someone decides that no amount of experience can trump minor academic reading.

Certainly I would strongly agree with you on that score.

I've known lots of farmers over the back fence who'd out-wisdom a long list of idiot PhD's.

reply to post by amazed

Since we do run the risk of veering too far off topic (myself as guilty as you are), all I am going to say to your first paragraph is that apparently you are not familiar with my views on energy in general.

But on topic is your experiences. Yes, they do make you an expert in the kind of home you came from. Therefore, I will ask you a few questions:

• Did you berate your parents in public in writing to your friends?
  
• Did you disrespect those who worked at jobs you considered 'menial'?
  
• Did your parents provide you with the tools you used to berate them?
  
• Did you continue to defy your parents even after being disciplined?
  
• Did your parents follow through with promises they made so far as what would happen if?
  
• Did you refuse to help out around the home?

All of these things were made apparent in the beginning of the video. They define the unique situation that existed between father and daughter. Therefore I need to know, before I accept your opinion as valid on this point, that you did indeed experience/create some of these details.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck

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I think you are just trying to justify the dad's actions. The fact is that no matter what the daughter did, he dropped down to her level and then topped it with needless violence. I may have sided with the guy had he left out the shooting and not have taped it and posted it for all to see.

What is made clear in the first moments of the video is that he sees it as a contest. A competition between himself and his daughter. Right then I knew the guy had lost control. He had nothing left in his parenting toolbox but too become that which he is trying to change in his daughter.

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by TheRedneck

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I think you are just trying to justify the dad's actions. The fact is that no matter what the daughter did, he dropped down to her level and then topped it with needless violence. I may have sided with the guy had he left out the shooting and not have taped it and posted it for all to see.

He might well have been wiser to have avoided promising to put a bullet through it. Once he did--I believe he HAD to do so. Few things are quite as bad as a parent's word that's not worth anything.

Certainly getting into a p*ssing contest with a teen is unwise.

Once there, imho, FOR THE TEEN'S SAKE--IT IS ESSENTIAL FOR THE PARENT TO WIN.

What is made clear in the first moments of the video is that he sees it as a contest. A competition between himself and his daughter.

I don't know that it's possible to see it any other way. Sounds like that's been the state of affairs between them for years.

And, IF, a parent allows a child to grow to the teen years with that dynamic AS THE SET STATUS QUO . . . LOTS of ill-will and junky exchanges will be the fallout.

However. . . to some degree being a child MEANS testing limits. And, learning what reality is all about THEREBY. That's one of the key reasons that PARENTS MUST WIN . . . for the CHILD'S SAKE.

And being a PARENT MEANS setting limits and enforcing them--for the child's sake and everyone else's.

ONE of the BIG reasons the world and the USA are in so MUCH trouble at present is the idiotic meme, value, SOP that kids have as much "right" to their wills and decisions in all cases, in all contexts, on all issues, all the time--as their parents do.







Otherwise, the child goes through life SEVERELY HANDICAPPED and brain-damaged with the literal mind-set that THEY have a RIGHT to be the FINAL AUTHORITY on a list of things that's just virtually NEVER going to be the truth on.

And the relationship struggles, bitterness, resentment, arrogance, sense of grandiose entitlement; shooting self suicidally in the foot, and other tender parts, that results will be a plague on the individual and on society for the individual's life unless they work it through and GROW UP--usually at enormous cost in tution in the school of very hard knocks.

OF COURSE the dad would have been enormously wiser to have insured that he was emotionally bonded to a greatly deeper level and with a greatly higher quality of emotional connectedness and mutual respect all the daughter's life.

No one ever taught him how. He clearly didn't get it from his dad.

I'm not sure that parents who haven't learned that "should" be "allowed" to have children. However, I don't like to go there in terms of social engineering. That's draconian globalist turf.

It appears that he's been on the absurd and rocky slope for a long time of trying to buy her favors and compliance.

Thankfully, he clearly loves her. He wouldn't have spent the TIME on her computer in her behalf, otherwise. The money's one thing but I don't think--even as often as he mentioned it--that the money counted as much to him as his time. And it was like she just took all that time AND money and gave it a huge 'finger.'

In the long run . . . I think it will sink in somewhat better . . . down the road a good piece . . . that he did and does love her . . . and that will redeem a lot of this crazy junk.

I think THAT'S what got to him. He had given her freely his best--and she PUBLICALLY slapped him in the face and kicked him in the groin and PUBLICALLY YELLED IN PRINT TO ALL CREATION that her's was longer than his.

I don't know a lot of men who would have handled that well.

And, frankly, if she's going to do that publically--she ought to be prepared for a very public response--which she certainly got.

AND THERE'S SOME GOOD REALITY TESTING THAT LIKELY ACCRUED THEREBY--whether she tunes into it in the short term, or not.

Right then I knew the guy had lost control. He had nothing left in his parenting toolbox but to become that which he is trying to change in his daughter.

Yes and no. They are somewhat two peas in a pod--which is usually the case in such situations. LOL. Sigh.

outta characters
.
.

reply to post by daskakik

You can certainly look at it that way... but doing so (which means embracing the changes in parenting that have been adopted by 'progressive' parents in the last couple of decades) means one must be in acceptance of the results of that viewpoint.

Here are the results:

• A rapidly increasing rate of teen pregnancy
  
• A rapidly rate of teen crime, increasing in severity and decreasing in age of perpetrator
  
• More and more entitlement programs to combat an increase in poverty
  
• A rapidly increasing rate of divorce
  
• An increasing inability to perform simple duties without technological aid
  
• A decreasing productivity rate in the workforce
  
• An increased general hostility in societal interactions
  
• Deadly violence in schools
  
• An abysmal rating among nations in education of graduating students

Need I go on?

The actions you just witnessed in this video were commonplace a few decades ago... oh, they weren't shown on YouTube or FaceBook of course, because those things did not exist. but they happened, and about anyone my age went through them. You respected your parents, or else.

Incidentally, I do not consider what he did as "violence". Violence is catching some guy in a dark alley and mugging him. Violence is beating another until they are senseless. Violence is killing, raping, maiming... not plucking a few shells into a laptop to make a point. That's another thing that has changed: I shudder to think what would happen to most people if they were ever confronted with real violence.

Might I suggest a rewatch of the movie Demolition Man? Murder-Death-Kill = no one knows how to handle it, including the police.

I personally think that the previous version of society was far preferable to what we have now, and I see the change in upbringing as the major responsible change. Now, if you like school shootings and kids unable to make change at McDonalds without a graphical interface, then that is by all means your prerogative.

Just understand what it is you are advocating.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck

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You respected your parents, or else.


Thanks for making many good points.

On summary . . . there IS MERIT in

AT LEAST ACTING LIKE one respected one's parents

OR ELSE.

Certainly Kublai Kahn demanded that.

And he was pretty successful. LOL.

Order TENDS to be better than chaos . . . for individuals and families.

This business of . . .

--if it feels good, do it . . .
--there is no right or wrong . . .

nonsense is DEADLY.

Satan hides that part when he tweaks up every rebellious urge to the max.

reply to post by BO XIAN

Looking back and reminiscing about the issue of respect, I remember something else that may well play into this discussion: the ritual of manhood that was practiced in my youth. Most of my male friends went through this, although a few did escape it. What would happen is that at some point, the boy would challenge the old man. The challenge might be an outright refusal to obey or a physical retaliation, but either way, the two would end up squaring off in the yard... man to man, not father to son.

The old man always won. The boy wound up bruised and beaten, usually bleeding. But at that point, when he had shown he would stand toe-to-toe with the old man, he became a man himself. There was no more rebellion; there was no more need. He was now able to stand on his own feet and gained that respect he felt was being denied him.

Barbaric? Probably. As my son is now 18, I believe we may well escape that ritual, and I am glad we can. But all throughout his teens, I was ready for it. Humans are barbarians at heart: witness the plethora of dictatorships and the atrocities that occur under them. Witness the attempts at control and subjugation of others that exists in our own supposedly 'civilized' country. Were we not barbarians at heart, we would have no crime, no need for police, no nightly news saturated with the evils that besiege our society.

As Captain James Tiberius Kirk of Star Trek fame once said:
"Yes, we're barbarians. We're killers. But we can always say to ourselves that today, we will not kill."

The solution is to say to ourselves that we will not harm another today. Not to say we are not barbarians. That embraces a falsehood that has dangerous consequences.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck

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You get all that from parents not throwing hissie fits? That is all this was. Some statistics actually show that crime rates are about the same as 1969. Yes, it's wiki.

In 2009 America's crime rate was roughly the same as in 1968, with the homicide rate being at its lowest level since 1964. Overall, the national crime rate was 3466 crimes per 100,000 residents, down from 3680 crimes per 100,000 residents forty years earlier in 1969 (-9.4%).

Maybe some of the other stats are not as bad either and I spotted a couple which were irrelevent.

The actions you just witnessed in this video were commonplace a few decades ago...

I disagree. Getting a lickin' is not the same as a father shooting a laptop. The fact that he put it on the web shows that it was more about him than his child. I don't disagree with a kid getting a spanking if called for, but this wasn't about discipline, it was about one-upping his daughter.

reply to post by TheRedneck

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Excellent points.

Personally, I believe that fathers need to take their sons one at a time at fitting ages for a weekend or a week's worth of IN THE WOODS ceremony and COMING OF AGE stuff . . . It can be more powerful if a group of men and sons do it together with both group and individual stuff.

Our culture hasn't had healthy versions of that. And I think there's a lot to be said for a structured way of doing that.

I know some Christian Dads are doing it in more formalized programs and some are creating their own experiences.

Worth considering.

Even with an 18 or 20 year old . . . there's ways to structure it that can result in the relationship being a lot closer and the young man more empowered and bonded to Dad and Dad's values.

Thanks for your great posts.

reply to post by daskakik

Hmmm... violent... throwing a hissie fit... stooping to a low level... which is it? I have watched the video again, and again I see a man at his wits end with a daughter who will not listen, will not show respect for others, will not lift a finger to support herself, lies, and throws temper fits. He sat and read the offending post, explained the circumstances, reiterated his previous promise, and proceeded to follow through with it in such a way as to make absolutely certain she knows the computer is gone forever due to her abuse of it, all the while setting the record straight about her lies and embarrassing her in front of her peers with her own actions.

That's violent? That's a hissie fit? Are we watching the same video?

In my world, that's a man of his word that cares more about his daughter than he does a machine.

As for the crime rate... did you know 88% of statistics are made up?

Yeah, it's an old joke, but in some ways it is true. Let's look at the crime between my youth and today. In my day, practically no one had to lock their home up unless they went away for a few days. Today, everyone keeps their doors locked at all times. In my day, I hitchhiked all over the county when my car was down... never had a problem. Today hitchhiking is so dangerous it is illegal in many areas. In my day the big news story around here was some guy getting arrested for starting a fight, big news because it rarely happened. Today the newspapers regularly make little one line mentions of murders and bury a column on page 17 rattling off 100 or so thefts every week. It;s just so common and ordinary that no one is interested any more.

And you want to convince me that the crime rate is the same?

When I went to school, the big crime was getting caught smoking in the bathroom. Today the crimes involve school shootings, stabbings, drug dealing, rapes, and suicides. In my day, we went trick-or-treating late into the night and ate the candy right out of the bag to keep us warm (and hyper). Today people are putting razor blades and drugs into the candy and parents are afraid to let their kids accept candy or stay out after dark.

Sorry... I don't care if you used Wiki or a priests sworn oath on a stack of Bibles ten stories tall... that dog don't hunt.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by daskakik

Hmmm... violent... throwing a hissie fit... stooping to a low level... which is it?

All of the above.

I have watched the video again, and again I see a man at his wits end with a daughter who will not listen, will not show respect for others, will not lift a finger to support herself, lies, and throws temper fits. He sat and read the offending post, explained the circumstances, reiterated his previous promise, and proceeded to follow through with it in such a way as to make absolutely certain she knows the computer is gone forever due to her abuse of it, all the while setting the record straight about her lies and embarrassing her in front of her peers with her own actions.

Then posted it on the web like a prima donna.

That's violent? That's a hissie fit? Are we watching the same video?

Yes, but not judging it the same.

In my world, that's a man of his word that cares more about his daughter than he does a machine.

In my world that's an attention seeker.

Let's look at the crime between my youth and today.

The graph in the wiki page reflects what I remember so I have to side with it.

When I went to school, the big crime was getting caught smoking in the bathroom.

Come on now. Theft and murder are not recent inventions.

Sorry... I don't care if you used Wiki or a priests sworn oath on a stack of Bibles ten stories tall... that dog don't hunt.

And one persons subjective opinion doesn't do it for me either.

reply to post by jadedANDcynical

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THANKS for your excellent points, imho.

And for your kind words.

I certainly do think he was trying . . . however flawed-ly

to enter her world as he perceived it and communicate via her medium.

Good on him for trying. Many Dads would not reach into their daughter's communication world at all.

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