Jacques Vallee: Implications of UFO Phenomena - Thinking Allowed.

Originally posted by blocula
reply to post by WhoKnows100

 

I'm sure there were multitudes of witches who were killed along with everyone else who was killed during stalins purges,genocides and forced starvations.Just because those russian witches were'nt killed hundreds of years ago,does'nt mean there were'nt any witches killed in russia.What would Vallee have to say about that?

There is a difference between targeted extermination of certain bloodlines and random killing. Even if you have 100 witches in the whole country, evenly distributed, if you kill half the population at random (say a few millions of people) chances are 50 witches would still survive. But if you target only witches, you only have to kill 100 people to exterminate them.

Originally posted by Moonlite

Originally posted by blocula
reply to post by WhoKnows100

 

I'm sure there were multitudes of witches who were killed along with everyone else who was killed during stalins purges,genocides and forced starvations.Just because those russian witches were'nt killed hundreds of years ago,does'nt mean there were'nt any witches killed in russia.What would Vallee have to say about that?

There is a difference between targeted extermination of certain bloodlines and random killing. Even if you have 100 witches in the whole country, evenly distributed, if you kill half the population at random (say a few millions of people) chances are 50 witches would still survive. But if you target only witches, you only have to kill 100 people to exterminate them.

This presumes that a majority of people with this supposed genetic trait become witches. I think that's a bit ridiculous. If such a trait exists I suspect these people simply reinterpret their inherited beliefs to accommodate their experiences. In western Europe I'm sure that the inquisitors were just as likely to have these traits as the people they were torturing and executing. Besides most of the people killed were probably falsely accused.

A lot of Jacques Vallee stuff here including PDFs of many of his books.

reply to post by cloudyday


And we are talking about exterminating witches in a Jacques Vallee UFO thread, why? Sorry let me read back, and I will enlighten myself.

Thanks for sharing info about Vallee in an otherwise dramatically uneducated area of the internet on occult matters.

I think I may have made this video available originally. My apologies to Dr. Mishlove - but it is important research.

reply to post by cloudyday
A connection between vallee,russia and killing witches was brought up a few posts back...

What is a witch anyways? one that looks and acts like the good witch,or the wicked witch,in the wizard of oz?...No...A witch or warlock was anyone who opposed the religion and iron will of the ruthless and murderous catholic church and popes...

The GUT, good to see you mate and thanks for the posts and statements about the subject -very interesting stuff.

Originally posted by The GUT

That's not to say there aren't things he acknowledges he can't speak about for security or non-disclosure business agreements..

Regarding non-disclosure contracts, Dr Hynek also mentions below that he signed a security agreement whilst at Project Bluebook stating if he ever disclosed certain information he would be 'prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law' so it's interesting to wonder just what kind of data went unreported over the years - there's also a lady in this video discussing Jacques Vallee's 'evolution from seeking information to controlling information' and speculation about his signing of disclosure agreements.

See 1:25:

Just as a footnote, Vallee also makes some interesting comments about Dr. Hynek’s book, 'The UFO Experience' at the link below (see page 49) and also made this intriguing statement about government manipulation of UFO evidence in 1992:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d7af54603b84.jpg[/atsimg]

"Governments took notice, organizing task forces, encouraging secret briefings and study groups, funding classified research and all the time denying before the public that any of the phenomena might be real. The major revelation of these Diaries may be the demonstration of how the scientific community was misled by the government, how the best data were kept hidden, and how the public record was shamelessly manipulated."

Dr. Jacques Vallee, astrophysicist, computer scientist 1992

Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists - April 1973

Cheers.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

Paranormal Phenomena and UFO Phenomena are the same thing. They are demons masquerading as different things. Jacques Vallee is right on the money and this is basically what he's saying.

RevelationGeneration, thanks for the reply although I don't know how you know that for sure - I also don't know why people feel the need to incorporate and evoke abrahamic mythology into the EDH - couldn't these objects just originate from a different dimension without being labelled 'demoic entities'?

The Gut posted a relevant statement here from British Ambassador Gordon Creighton and whilst he conducted some great work on FSR, I'm not too sure about his conclusions linked at this page - I do agree with his comments in this interview from 1973 though.

"Unquestionably, something very extraordinary is going on and unquestionably it's a very bewildering mystery".

Gordon Creighton

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

Lots of UFO fanatics will deny any connection though because they are still hoping they are martian men from different planets...

Who knows, it's not beyond the realms of possibilty that the ETH is the correct one and various organised religions have based their tennets and dogmas on sufficiently advanced technologies visiting earth and mistaking them for gods.

Guess that's the problem with speculating about UFO origin - no-one knows anything for sure.

If you're interested, there's a relevant programme at the thread below dealing with the subject and and all those biblical accounts of stationary clouds, sky thrones, fiery chariots, flying rolls, pillars of light, platforms, vessels and fiery wheels in the sky do sound pretty intriguing - especialy when the objects are described as exhibiting rapid, prolonged flight; hovering; ascending or descending.


UFOs and Abrahamic Religion

Those we call aliens are probably hyperdimensional beings...

They hide behind the veil of our limited perceptions and can project themselves into our visible reality at will...

They are not recent visitors to earth,but have been here for at least hundreds of thousands of years and continue to live here,within earths oceans,within underground bases and on the dark side of the moon...

Some aliens helped genetically engineer the human race,while other factions later crippled human genetics in order to turn mankind into little more than a source of physical and etheric food...

Us continuing to believe that these advanced aliens are arriving here from outer space is a very grave error indeed...

They are not our friendly space brothers and sisters from the stars here to save humanity...

They always have been and still are disguising who they really are,where they are really coming from and why they are here...

Originally posted by blocula
Who we call aliens are hyperdimensional beings...

They hide behind the veil of our perceptions and can project themselves into our visible reality at will...

They are not recent visitors to earth,but have been here for hundreds of thousands of years and continue to live here,mostly within subaquatic and underground bases...

Some aliens helped genetically engineer the human race,while other factions later crippled human genetics in order to turn mankind into little more than a source of physical and etheric food...

Us continuing to believe that these advanced aliens are arriving here from space is a very grave error...

They are not our friendly space brothers and sisters from the stars here to save humanity...

They have and still are disguising who they really are and where they are really coming from...

edit on 15-2-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)

The fact that these experiences seem tailored to the observer implies they are subjective. I think they are coming out of the observer's mind unconsciously or consciously.

People with schizophrenia cannot distinguish between outside sensory data and their imagination so they hear voices, hallucinate, and start thinking they are the focus of some grand conspiracy. I suspect that mentally stable people might drift in and out of schizophrenia sometimes - especially people who practice meditation or are superstitious and religious. That would explain weird sightings with a single witness.

Sightings with multiple witnesses, radar data, etc. can't be explained by mental illness. The tulpa seems like the best explanation for these.

But the idea that inter-dimensional beings or extra terrestrials have nothing better to do with their time than screw around with people - that's hard to believe.

Also, there are probably real non-human intelligences visiting Earth at times, but the data is mixed with all this craziness coming from our minds. (This is all just my theory of course. I'm still trying to decide what I believe.)

reply to post by cloudyday
Imagine being able to traverse the void of ancient light in search of barren planets,then terraform them into habitable worlds and develope life forms upon them who eventually evolve their own intelligence..

Sounds fantastic and amazing to me and would hardly be considered boring or a waste of time from our perspectives or from the aliens points of view and they may have terraformed and colonized planets all over the galaxy and maybe even across the universe.If their intentions are ultimately of an evil nature,then even that is only our point of view taken from our perspectives,not theirs...

Members of class-2 and class-3 civilizations are probably what the aliens really are.Humanity itself is'nt even a class-1 yet...

When we talk to god its called praying,when god talks to us its called schizophrenia and if the vast majority of people started displaying signs of schizophrenia all the time,then very quickly in rapid succession,acting like what we consider now normal behaviour,would suddenly seem very abnormal and would be declared as being so...

Originally posted by blocula
reply to post by cloudyday

 

Imagine being able to traverse the void of ancient light in search of barren planets,then terraform them into habitable worlds and develope life forms upon them who eventually evolve their own intelligence..

Sounds fantastic and amazing to me and would hardly be considered boring or a waste of time from our perspectives or from the aliens points of view and they may have terraformed and colonized planets all over the galaxy and maybe even across the universe.If their intentions are ultimately of an evil nature,then even that is only our point of view taken from our perspectives,not theirs...

Members of class-2 and class-3 civilizations are probably what the aliens really are.Humanity itself is'nt even a class-1 yet...

When we talk to god its called praying,when god talks to us its called schizophrenia and if the vast majority of people started displaying signs of schizophrenia all the time,then very quickly in rapid succession,acting like what we consider now normal behaviour,would suddenly seem very abnormal and would be declared as being so...

edit on 15-2-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)

I'm not saying that aliens would not be interested in Earth or humans. But most UFO encounters seem to have no purpose. That's why I think many UFO encounters originate from the subconscious mind somehow - either through delusion or through the Buddhist idea of tulpas. I feel the same way about paranormal encounters.

I'm not being dismissive of UFOs and paranormal, because I've experienced those things personally. This is just my theory based on my own experiences.

Originally posted by cloudyday

But most UFO encounters seem to have no purpose.

There's quite a few reports which seem to describe unknown objects collecting water.


Unusual reports of UFOs 'taking on water'


Cheers.

reply to post by karl 12


Now hold on just a second... "Abrahamic mythology"... so basically your saying the bible is not authentic and is in the same class as greek mythology?!?!? Can you prove that or do you have anything to support that assumption?

And by EDH I take it you mean "extra dimensional hypothesis" ?

If so why is it so hard to make the connection between demons and aliens...

There is a ton of similarity's between the too. Not forgetting that the only thing that has seemed to stop an abduction experience is calling on the name of Jesus.

I don't follow religion by the way, I follow history...

History proves Jesus is God.

Originally posted by cloudyday

But most UFO encounters seem to have no purpose.

There's also quite a few reports which seem to suggest a nuclear connection.

The evidence for a UFO/Nuclear Connection grows by the day. Official FBI, CIA, Army and Air Force documents establish, beyond a doubt, that UFOs have been seen and reported where uranium and plutonium are mined and manufactured (the Congo, New Mexico, Oak Ridge, Tennessee, the Hanford Plant at Washington, the Savannah River facility at South Carolina). Official reports are on file of UFOs seen where bomb development takes place (Los Alamos, Sandia Base) and where nuclear weapons are stored (Manzano Mountain near Kirtland, NM, and Killeen Base at Camp Hood, TX). Even where the bombs are transported to the testing areas: See USS Curtiss incident. The Camp Hood/Killeen incidents are listed in the Project Blue Book "Unknowns". Some of the most dramatic incidents involve interference with our missile sites (shutdown of 20 Minuteman missiles at Malmstrom AFB, Montana. Even the absence of incidents is uncanny, such as during one of the most dangerous periods in history, the Cuban Missile Crisis. Accidental war, where UFOs could be mistaken for Russian missiles or jets during very tense time, was a distinct possibility. Official documents show that UFOs had caused quite a stir at other times in our history, several times setting off nationwide alerts.

NICAP Nuclear Connection Project

reply to post by karl 12


As well as the fact that around 70 to 80% of all ufo and flying saucers ever seen were either entering,exiting or flying over water and some have even been seen crashing through lake and sea ice.One of the best books i've ever read about ufo's is called Invisible Residents by Ivan Sanderson 1970 > www.legendarytimesbooks.com...

reply to post by blocula


Blocula, good call on the Ivan Sanderson book and I'd say your right about the connection UFOs have with the world's oceans - here are some interesting statements taken from Russian Naval personnel which were featured in an article on the Fox News website:

“On several occasions the instruments gave reading of material objects moving at incredible speed. Calculations showed speeds of about 230 knots, of 400 kph. Speeding so fast is a challenge even on the surface. But water resistance is much higher. It was like the objects defied the laws of physics. There’s only one explanation: the creatures who built them far surpass us in development".
Russian Naval Rear Admiral Yury Beketov

“Ocean UFOs often show up wherever our or NATO’s fleets concentrate. Near Bahamas, Bermudas, Puerto Rico. They are most often seen in the deepest part of the Atlantic Ocean, in the southern part of the Bermuda Triangle, and also in the Caribbean Sea.”
Captain 1st rank Igor Barklay

“Fifty percent of UFO encounters are connected with oceans. Fifteen more – with lakes. So UFOs tend to stick to the water".
Vladimir Azhazha,Russian Naval Officer

Link

There's also this excellent thread by SkyFloating which deals with the USO subject and a quite a freaky report below from Chile in which police officers witnessed (and shot at) a very strange object which flew at 'great speed', shone down a beam of light, exhibited EM effects on a police patrol car then submerged into the ocean - I don't know what Jacques Vallee would have made of that.


Bizarre Police UFO/USO Case from Tocopilla, Chile, 1971


Cheers.

reply to post by karl 12
These crafts ability to defy our aerodynamic laws as they fly at impossible speeds in the air and in the water further convinces me that these machines and their occupants are arriving here from alternate realities and or other dimensions and perhaps even other planets,other worldly realms that evolved under cosmic conditions different than our own...

They could still be time travellers arriving here in their time machines,from a future earth thats been gravitationally altered and environmentally changed...

Would a craft that designed to fly in the freezing airless void of outerspace also be able to fly underwater? Is underwater where they have set up their hidden bases? Or do they originate from our oceans and their vehicles are actually water ships,not space ships?

I just wanted to link the supersonic Russian torpedo Shkval VA-111 for any who aren't aware of it. Travelling very fast under water has been possible at least since the 1960s when development on this torpedo began. It could explain some USO sightings just as the SR-71 was behind some UFO sightings. Also, I assume the U.S. understands and uses super cavitation too, because naval superiority is so important to the U.S.

Design began in the 1960s when the NII-24 research institute was ordered to produce a new weapon system capable of combating nuclear submarines. In 1969, the GSKB-47 merged with NII-24 to create the Research Institute of Applied Hydromechanics in Kiev, Ukraine (constructor Merkulov); the Shkval being a product of this merger.

Announced as being deployed in the early 1990s, although previously operational as early as 1977,[1] the Shkval is designed as a countermeasure against torpedoes launched by undetected enemy submarines. It may also be used as a counter to incoming torpedoes whereby it is launched at the enemy submarine, forcing it to evade, and hopefully cutting the guidance wire to its own torpedo in the process. It is approximately the size of a full-grown, adult, male dolphin.
Shkval nose cone
Shkval rear, showing the guidance fins and the electronics connector

The speed of the VA-111 far exceeds that of any standard torpedo currently fielded by NATO. This speed is a result of supercavitation: the torpedo is, in effect, flying in a gas bubble created by outward deflection of water by its specially shaped nose cone and the expansion of gases from its engine. By keeping water from coming into contact with the surface of the body of the torpedo, drag is significantly reduced, allowing extremely high speeds.

VA-111 Shkval - Wikipedia

Originally posted by karl 12
RevelationGeneration, thanks for the reply although I don't know how you know that for sure - I also don't know why people feel the need to incorporate and evoke abrahamic mythology into the EDH - couldn't these objects just originate from a different dimension without being labelled 'demoic entities'?

It's interesting to note that the word "demon" derives from the Greek "daimon," which basically means "possessing knowledge." Way back, this could either mean a bad entity or a good hero-type entity. Over the years, though, it because associated with evil. I can imagine it was because the way the Church saw it, anything or anybody with too much knowledge could be considered evil, since a primary foundation of the Church is ignorance.

So, maybe alien/angel/demon connection is not so far off, since these things are supposed to have some kind of special knowledge that gives them power to move through various realities.

reply to post by Blue Shift


A demon is simply one of the fallen angels that were cast out of Heaven with Lucifer.

Why is so hard for atheists to understand that?

The aliens people typically see are Demons in disguise... Although Jacques Vallee never came out and said that it was obvious that is what he was alluding too. Demons are extra dimensional beings, can shape shift, walk through walls, use telepathy and all sorts of other things. Grey aliens are absolutely 100% of demonic origin. They do not come from other planets. Good angels do not try and frighten people like these 'Greys' always seem to end up doing. An angel from God's kingdom will always assure a person they mean no harm. If you read the bible when ever a angel appears to a human they will usually say something like "peace be with you" and normally appear in human or Angelic form. This is quite different as appearing as some weird looking alien and scaring the living crap out of someone.

The reason atheists do not want to admit aliens are demons is because they would then have to give credit to the Bible.