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Catholic Bishops: Obama's Solution 'Is Unacceptable'

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posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by windword
I think that the church is a different entity than the charities that they finance.

Catholic hospitals aren't separate charities financed by the Catholic Church. They are Catholic Church outreach programs ... ran by the Catholic Church in accordance with their faith. It is the Church itself that runs and operates the Catholic hospitals because their faith says they should.




posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


They also receive money from the government to continue running, like I said in my initial post: Medicare and Medicaid to name a few. The people of the nation fund the government. The employees should have the right to any kind of health coverage they want. If the church has a problem with providing basic contraception to their employees who may not subscribe to that particular religion, then the church should stop taking money from the government, fund the institution themselves, and then be able to do whatever they please.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by duhdiggitydan
 


Obama should grant a waiver to the Catholic Church and move on.

He had some good economic news earlier in the week but it has been pushed out

of the way because of this iron fist of socialism smashing down on the heads of

the Catholic Church.

I'm guessing David Axelrod has a huge headache right now.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101

Originally posted by theRhenn
.
Someone explained it very plainly above.

If a group/church does not believe in something, as it is against their beliefs, religion.. It SHOULD NOT have to be forced to pay for such acts...

What if you were against crackheads... Obama says you have to pay taxes to help every single crackhead get treatment.... He, the crackhead, can bow out, but you STILL have to pay the tax.

How would you feel about throwing your money towards something that you feel is stupid, idiotic and against the very foundation of the beliefs you have?


You bring out a relevant point in the discussion.

I find you rude and uncompassionate towards others in our civilised society. Then perhaps, following your dictate, CAN I not be throwing my tax dollars to support folks like you that I absolutely detest? Can I alone make and decide where my money goes when it comes to social expenditure, discriminate as I please?

Afterall, my tax monies goes into a central pool to fund social expenditure for our society, such as education, health, infrastructure, etc. Surely you cannot claim your existance today, with knowledge, societal benefits and all, is by your own hands alone?.


Rude? How exactly am I rude? Standing up for your rights as a citizen is deemed rude?

I dont believe in abortions.. I'm pro life. Does that make me rude?

I dont believe Crack is an disease.. Does that make me rude?

So.. Having an opinion about how I spend MY money... Makes one Rude.

You have any idea of what I do WILLINGLY spend my tax dollars for?

Bet you dont...

I could be rude and advise you where to stick your opinion, but since I simply just brought the meer thought to life, I suppose I wouldnt need to...

I never said I was Catholic, yet I agree with the church on this one. I do not follow any religion, yet I still believe this is WRONG.

There is a seperation from church and state... That goes BOTH ways. Not just one.

You cant be one thing and hold onto something that unmakes you who/what you are.

now.. Have I used condoms? Yep. Have my girlfriends/wife used the pill.. yep.

Should churches pay for it? Hell no!

So whats with all this.. The Government will make sure that everyone will give you everything you need... but EVERYONE is going to pay for it... Thats total socialistic BS! How about you just stop taxing me to death and let me pay for my own damn life???



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


yeah but when you dont believe in treatment and potentially kill your child because of it would you rather take the jail time? i recall a case where a family because of religious beliefs were refusing treatment for there son's cancer and than the law got involved. i agree we should have our right to choose and every day they tighten that noose.
but on the other hand i would like to live.
edit on 11-2-2012 by SpunGCake because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by duhdiggitydan
 


Catholic hospitals are traditionally built in the poorest neighborhoods. That's their whole purpose.. But sure ... the government can stop giving subsidies to the Catholic church for it's hospital outreaches. Absolutely. So when the Church has to close it's outreach hospitals .. what will happen to all the poor people who depend on them? Is the government going to open it's own secular hospitals in their place? (we all know how well the government runs things)

It's cheaper for the government to give subsidies to faith based organizations that help the poor in the country than to have to create their own organizations to do it.

But sure .. cut off the funds. That's fine. When the poor start dieing off because there is no free health care at the ER anymore ... we'll let you explain to them that it was done for their own good all because some of the workers - who chose to work there of their own free will - wanted free birth control pills to be paid for by the Catholic church so the Church had to close it down. Good luck with that.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by duhdiggitydan
 


Obama should grant a waiver to the Catholic Church and move on.

He had some good economic news earlier in the week but it has been pushed out

of the way because of this iron fist of socialism smashing down on the heads of

the Catholic Church.

I'm guessing David Axelrod has a huge headache right now.


I think that may be the root of the problem.

If they waive, they get the votes back but then nobody would left in the whole HC program by then anyway


They gaffed their way into a real Catch-22 this time.


Obama: "The tele-prompter is not working ..... it has squiggly lines all over it"


And here comes the National Anthem and the Indian



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by theRhenn

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101

Originally posted by theRhenn
.
Someone explained it very plainly above.

If a group/church does not believe in something, as it is against their beliefs, religion.. It SHOULD NOT have to be forced to pay for such acts...

What if you were against crackheads... Obama says you have to pay taxes to help every single crackhead get treatment.... He, the crackhead, can bow out, but you STILL have to pay the tax.

How would you feel about throwing your money towards something that you feel is stupid, idiotic and against the very foundation of the beliefs you have?


You bring out a relevant point in the discussion.

I find you rude and uncompassionate towards others in our civilised society. Then perhaps, following your dictate, CAN I not be throwing my tax dollars to support folks like you that I absolutely detest? Can I alone make and decide where my money goes when it comes to social expenditure, discriminate as I please?

Afterall, my tax monies goes into a central pool to fund social expenditure for our society, such as education, health, infrastructure, etc. Surely you cannot claim your existance today, with knowledge, societal benefits and all, is by your own hands alone?.


Rude? How exactly am I rude? Standing up for your rights as a citizen is deemed rude?

I dont believe in abortions.. I'm pro life. Does that make me rude?

I dont believe Crack is an disease.. Does that make me rude?

So.. Having an opinion about how I spend MY money... Makes one Rude.

You have any idea of what I do WILLINGLY spend my tax dollars for?

Bet you dont...

I could be rude and advise you where to stick your opinion, but since I simply just brought the meer thought to life, I suppose I wouldnt need to...

I never said I was Catholic, yet I agree with the church on this one. I do not follow any religion, yet I still believe this is WRONG.

There is a seperation from church and state... That goes BOTH ways. Not just one.

You cant be one thing and hold onto something that unmakes you who/what you are.

now.. Have I used condoms? Yep. Have my girlfriends/wife used the pill.. yep.

Should churches pay for it? Hell no!

So whats with all this.. The Government will make sure that everyone will give you everything you need... but EVERYONE is going to pay for it... Thats total socialistic BS! How about you just stop taxing me to death and let me pay for my own damn life???





Calm down. It's an old trick. - Hiding behind victims. -

Don't fall into the trap.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by duhdiggitydan
 


Catholic hospitals are traditionally built in the poorest neighborhoods. That's their whole purpose.. But sure ... the government can stop giving subsidies to the Catholic church for it's hospital outreaches. Absolutely. So when the Church has to close it's outreach hospitals .. what will happen to all the poor people who depend on them? Is the government going to open it's own secular hospitals in their place? (we all know how well the government runs things)

It's cheaper for the government to give subsidies to faith based organizations that help the poor in the country than to have to create their own organizations to do it.

But sure .. cut off the funds. That's fine. When the poor start dieing off because there is no free health care at the ER anymore ... we'll let you explain to them that it was done for their own good all because some of the workers - who chose to work there of their own free will - wanted free birth control pills to be paid for by the Catholic church so the Church had to close it down. Good luck with that.


So you're okay with helping the poor, just not the people who work there to help the poor? Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense. That's completely contradictory to helping your brother and sister, which is what your fictional deity has taught you to do to, ya know, be a helpful member of the human race.

For my suggestion to work entirely, obviously you would need some sort of socialist reform for hospitals so everyone can get the medical help they need, employee or not. Which I don't see the huge issue in—nor should you, as Jesus teaches being helpful to all. Everyone who lives in this nation has helped to build it and will continue to do so; everyone should be taken care of. I don't agree with the majority of Catholic teachings, or any other mainstream religion to be quite frank, but I do agree with helping your brothers and sisters in need.

Setting hospitals aside, what about private schools that accept government money? What about the universities that do the same? Nobody's life, poor or not, is at stake when cutting government funding to allow them to run the show how their fictional ancient writings dictate.

Also, spare me on the "free will to work there." If you pay any attention at all to what's going on in the nation, nay, the entire world, you would see that we are in tough economic times. People are taking jobs wherever they can to make ends meet. I've even had to bite the bullet on my moral beliefs to work at a place that fervently supports SOPA/PIPA/ACTA.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by duhdiggitydan
 


Obama has his iron fist of socialism ( ObamaCare) all ready to slap big

fines on anybody who steps out of line.

----------
This just might end his political career this week!

Americans of ALL faiths will battle Obama on this power grab and Obama will lose.

As we speak you are playing out a - no win scenario -.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by duhdiggitydan
So you're okay with helping the poor, just not the people who work there to help the poor?

Oh the drama. The people who voluntarily decide to work in a Catholic hospital can still get their birth control pills. No one has been cut off. They can get them and pay for them on their own, OR they can get boatloads for free at the clinics. The clinics give them out like candy.

which is what your fictional deity has taught you to do to, ya know, be a helpful member of the human race.

You shouldn't assume that I agree or disagree with the Catholic church teaching on anything. Just because I know what the Catholic Church teaches on something like birth control doesn't mean I agree with it.

spare me on the "free will to work there."

Spare me the feigned outrage. It's true. They work there of their own free choice. If they don't want to work for a Catholic Church Hospital, then they can go work for the Lutheran Hospital, or the Methodist Hospital, Or the Jewish Hospital, or the City Hospital, or any number of doctors offices or other jobs. etc etc.

If you pay any attention at all to what's going on in the nation, nay, the entire world, you would see that we are in tough economic times.People are taking jobs wherever they can to make ends meet.

If you paid any attention at all to what's going on in the nation, you'd know that there is a shortage of nurses and medical staff and they pretty much can have a pick of whatever place they want to work at. Hospitals have shortages and need help. And if the people want an income and can't find other work, then they should get the job in the Catholic hospital and get their birth control pills at the free clinic if they don't want to pay for them.

AGAIN ... you want to cut off the financial help Catholic Church hospitals get from the government all because of some stupid birth control pills? Fine. Then YOU go stand on a box in the middle of the poor section of the city where the hospitals are and tell the poor people there you just cut them off from the free health care they get in the ER ... all because of some little birth control pills. Again .. good luck with that.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Keep it simple.

Obama is trying to shred the US constitution. He will be slapped back......HARD!

Just watch. It takes a few days for the polling data to kick in.

The DNC may be on the phone with Hillary Clinton right now. "You're on! "




posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 02:18 PM
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reply to post by duhdiggitydan
 



For my suggestion to work entirely, obviously you would need some sort of socialist reform for hospitals so everyone can get the medical help they need, employee or not. Which I don't see the huge issue in—nor should you, as Jesus teaches being helpful to all. Everyone who lives in this nation has helped to build it and will continue to do so; everyone should be taken care of. I don't agree with the majority of Catholic teachings, or any other mainstream religion to be quite frank, but I do agree with helping your brothers and sisters in need.


And not to mention,

This still may be a Constitutionality issue.

An amendment might be needed !!!



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by Eurisko2012
The DNC may be on the phone with Hillary Clinton right now. "You're on! "

That would fix the mistake they made four years ago. At this point I'd vote for her. I never thought I'd say that, but after four years of Obama and seeing what's being offered with Romney (and no daylight between Obama and Romney) .. I'd RUN to Hillary. I bet Hillary wouldn't have stepped in it like Obama did with all this .... but that's another subject ...



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
The DNC may be on the phone with Hillary Clinton right now. "You're on! "

That would fix the mistake they made four years ago. At this point I'd vote for her. I never thought I'd say that, but after four years of Obama and seeing what's being offered with Romney (and no daylight between Obama and Romney) .. I'd RUN to Hillary. I bet Hillary wouldn't have stepped in it like Obama did with all this .... but that's another subject ...


You should have watched Hannity on Fox News last night.

He had about 20 Catholic Priests, Jewish Rabiis and Baptist Ministers on his show.

They we ALL very angry AND ready for battle.

Half of them had white collars on but were looking for a fight.

One of them said he was willing to - die - in order to stop Obama from

benefiting from this clear power grab!


- This is NOT the role of the United States Government.-

They all said that during the whole show.
edit on 11-2-2012 by Eurisko2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by Eurisko2012
 


Sounds cool...

Are there any videos ?



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by theRhenn
 






now.. Have I used condoms? Yep. Have my girlfriends/wife used the pill.. yep.
Should churches pay for it? Hell no!


This is really simplistic and makes me think that you aren't getting the point of this discussion.

Churches aren't going to pay for you health care! Employers, who might happen to be say, a Catholic Charity, are. Do you or your wife work for a church? Because, if not, your statement is irrelevant to this argument.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 03:09 PM
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This link to Fox News has a clip from a program that discusses the issue.



The battle over the Obama administration's contraceptive coverage rule is far from over despite the "accommodation" announced Friday, as the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and other groups voice serious concern about a policy they claim still intrudes on religious freedom.

President Obama announced the rule change in a bid to calm the tumultuous debate which had spread to the Republican presidential campaign trail and beyond. The original policy would exempt churches and house of worship but require religious organizations like schools and hospitals to provide free contraceptive coverage. Under the change, religious organizations could refuse that coverage, while insurers would nevertheless be required to offer it to any employee who wants it.

The change was initially met with a reserved response. While many Democrats praised it and Republicans dismissed it, nonpartisan groups like the Conference of Catholic Bishops said they were reserving judgment.



fox report Video



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 06:53 PM
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Priests don't have to worry about getting people pregnant because they only sex things too young to be fertile and usually of the same gender.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by theRhenn

That makes no sense what so ever...

Someone explained it very plainly above.

If a group/church does not believe in something, as it is against their beliefs, religion.. It SHOULD NOT have to be forced to pay for such acts...

What if you were against crackheads... Obama says you have to pay taxes to help every single crackhead get treatment.... He, the crackhead, can bow out, but you STILL have to pay the tax.

How would you feel about throwing your money towards something that you feel is stupid, idiotic and against the very foundation of the beliefs you have?


while i agree that forcing others to sin is wrong

i must, in all seriousness, point out that your "Crackhead Argument" is seriously flawed.

it is the exact same argument a crack dealer seeking an exemption for paying/providing for...
well, you get the picture by now... LOL

i mean way beyond apples and oranges


more like comparing mountains to molehills


i mean i don't usually agree with your posts, but acknowledge your intelligence.



never mind the usual conservative blah blah blah of " my taxes are being..."
or that conservatives a couple of centuries ago would have burned you at the stake
for making an argument like that, the religious implications...


never mind that once your taxes got forked over,
you lost all say in how it's spent

never mind that roving crackheads is not something you want
in your back yard.

you'd wind paying for their "treatment"

crackheads are bad, M'Kaaaay?

this issue's got you posting stuff like that
and not just you

the psyop is working
wonder what's really up, that the RCC is playing along?
and quite a tangled web it is
with folks and arguments going round
jumping from individuals to groups/organizations
and getting their arguments/subjects/objects crossed
on a national scale.

i wonder why



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