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Christianity: What's the 'catch'?

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posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Paul echoes Christ who also said that blindness was temporal. "You shall not see me again until you say..". This is an echo of Christ in Hosea 5:15. That is why God is provoking them to jealousy. He wouldn't be provoking them to be jealous if He didn't have plans to redeem them, that's common sense.


You are quoting Mathew 23:39
For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'

Which would be a quote from Psalm 118:26
Blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD. From the house of the LORD we bless you.

Which was something they already did in Matthew 21:9
The crowds that went ahead of him and those that followed shouted, "Hosanna to the Son of David!" "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!" "Hosanna in the highest!"

Hosea 5:15 says:
Then I will return again to my lair until they have suffered their punishment. Then they will seek me; in their distress they will earnestly seek me.

This reference to Hosea I have to guess is something you picked up from a YouTube video where a crack-pot preacher is using it to concoct some wild scheme about future events.
The simple explanation would be that it was a conditional statement that if he was not welcomed back to the temple again, as he was earlier, he would never return to the temple, which is what happened. He said that as he stood in the temple and left, went to Bethany, later did the Last Supper, went to Gethsemane, then was taken to the house or rather the courtyard of the High Priest.
So Jesus was not promising a future return but explaining how they had one last chance to accept him, and welcoming him back into the temple after this one episode which showed bad signs of his not being further allowed to speak his mind in that forum.

edit on 15-2-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Principalities = angels, I'd assume Christ created them, He's God. The way it's translated from the TR Ezekiel is prophesying to the kings and God takes it beyond the flesh and blood and to the devil behind the thrones. (We battle not against flesh and blood...) You can clearly see it's addressing a supernatural angel, a "cherub".

"You are the anointed cherub that covers; and I have set you so: you were upon the holy mountain of God; you have walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire." And Lucifer was not archangel, he was a cherub-class of angel. That's why God placed "Cherubim" leading to the way of the tree of life, it wasn't to keep Adam and eve out, a simple angel could easily have done that. God placed Cherubim there to keep out another cherub, lucifer.

You cherry picked from the bottom of the list of possible definitions of that word and chose one never used in the New Testament, ignoring the ones that are used. This has the looks of deliberate deception on your part in order to support your Satanology for whatever purpose.
Your quote is from an outdated translation where the simple understanding is the writer of Ezekiel is comparing the fall of the king of Tyre with the fall of Adam, where there was really no excuse since The Lord was right there warning him what not to do.



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

. . . It secures the full inheritance.

Church is what substitutes in the New Testament for the Congregation under the covenant in the Old Testament. The church, as the writer of Ephesians explains, is now established as a covenantal unit after that same general sort of model but instead of a visible spiritual manifestation in the midst of the camp in the wilderness, they have a visual manifestation in the membership of this church in how they have love and other signs of turning towards the good. It establishes them as a congregation without the obvious devices that Israel had, like the crossing of the Red Sea, to make a clear demarcation of where they began this covenantal relationship. It is the beginning, as it states, calling it a first-fruits, and not some mystical seal of there making it to the promised land any more than the people who crossed the Red Sea having such a guarantee.

edit on 15-2-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

He cannot forgive sins without penalty, that would compromise His justice.

You could not possibly be more wrong about anything.
The New Testament states that the mechanism of God's forgiveness of sins is by His forgetting them.



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by Akragon
 



My friend you can't be considered Christian if you follow paul... you are now a paulian... Along with many of the others that feel this way as well... Justs myt opinion of course... It is called "Christianity"... though i would say many follow paulianity, perhaps even more follow paul then Jesus...


Of course I am "Paulian"....whatever the devil that means...but really now, you saying you don't follow Paul over Jesus? If you don't then you are not saved and you will not go to Heaven. Why? Jesus never once taught salvation by grace through faith. Paul did,

Jesus taught keep commandments and works based salvation (Matt 5-7, etc.) Paul taught pure faith through grace. (Eph 2:8-9)

Matter of fact, Christianity is based SOLELY on Paul's writings. I have noticed a lot if you guys don't understand this. Let me make it clear....if you follow Jesus Christ's teachings ONLY, then you will end up in Hell. Why? Because you must believe the Gospel to be saved. Soooooo what is the Gospel? (1 Cor 15:1-4) Its the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. So how you going to believe the Gospel of Grace reading ONLY the Gospels?!?! The gospel of grace does not even appear!! I challenge you, show me where the gospel of grace appears in the 4 gospels. (Now Jesus did mention it, but only to His apostles, He never preached it (Rom 10:9-17))

P.s. You are COMMANDED to be a follower of Paul according to the Holy Scriptures.
1 Cor 4:16 "Wherefore I beseech you, BE YE FOLLOWERS OF ME. "
Keep reading....you will catch up one day (I hope
)


Jesus was Gods son,,not Paul.!! Paul wasn't chosen to be sacrificed so that you will be freed from your sin, Jesus was. So ...God made a mistake when Jesus was sacrificed and ..oh..he forgot something, so inserted Paul!?? So in your opinion what was Jesus sacrifice for if not to redeem you into the good Graces of God..Don't sound as if God had it all thought out does it???
In Isaiah 45:21... In the last sentence of the paragraph from God's mouth was this... and there s no God else beside me; a just God and A Saviour; there is none beside me.
Isaiah 45:22..Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

That may have a different interpretation for you, but I know what it says to me.
edit on 15-2-2012 by ellieN because: misspelled word



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



I don't think so, that's the fatal flaw, "stopping right there, PERIOD."

You're cherry-picking the attributes of God. Yes, He is love. But He is also Holy, Righteous, and Just. And He HATES sin and unrighteousness. He cannot forgive sins without penalty, that would compromise His justice.

I have no reason to think that this is an accurate statement.
In all of my years, I have never been told that God hates in that way. He is unconditionally loving, despite the suggestion that "we are not worthy so much as to pick up the crumbs under your table."



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 



I have no reason to think that this is an accurate statement.
In all of my years, I have never been told that God hates in that way. He is unconditionally loving, despite the suggestion that "we are not worthy so much as to pick up the crumbs under your table."



Leviticus 20:23
And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.

Psalm 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Psalm 11:5
The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Proverbs 6:16, 19
These six things doth the LORD hate ... A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Hosea 9:15
I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings.

Malachi 1:3
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Romans 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.


Keep reading bud
Like I said, you might catch up eventually. God is a real good hater. I am shocked by the people that call themselves Christians yet lack even the most basic understanding of the Holy God in the KJV Bible.

Please people, stop watching youtube videos, Christian TV networks, and reading college educated "Christians professors, and just READ YOU KING JAMES BIBLE and let God speak with you. You guys have no clue what is coming...
I fear for your country.

God is LITERALLY going to SACRIFICE people in order to kill them....and this will be called marvelous in Heaven. My God people.....READ YOUR BIBLE while you have it!

Read EZEKIEL Chapter 39. Read the whole blasted chapter. Read it and weep. For it describes the VERY near future...and the future will REQUIRE BLOOD.

No one gets it. If you reject Jesus Christs Blood for atonement....then you have to pay for your sins with your own BLOOD. And your blood is not good enough to pay the price. God help us....even so, come Lord Jesus.
edit on 15-2-2012 by KJV1611 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by KJV1611
 


A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Uh oh.
You're in trouble now.....

Like I said before, KJV1611, I was nourished on that bible in the RELIGION that developed it....
so, I say I have more claim than you to what i says.
I was reared with it AND THE INSTITUTION that used it to teach and to 'preach.' So, not only are you not ordained or qualified to tell me anything at all about it and the intended message, BUT.... NONE of what you say about hatred and condemnation was part of that.

So, "bud", excuse me, but you don't frighten or intimidate me. I know what I know, and I have confidence in what I believe. But thanks (I guess?) for, uh..."caring".

*shakes head and reminds self not to take seriously a self-styled "Independent Baptist" who uses the Anglican/Episcopal bible as his technical manual to judge others.......and then sighs*



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Glad you rely so much on your position in life. I happily say I don't rely on anything I have done, my membership in my independent Baptist church (which you are using as your alibi), or my up bringing. I rely purely on the shed blood of Jesus Christ as my atonement to a ANGER, HOLY, and RIGHTEOUS God.

Jesus spoke of you quite a few times you goody-do-gooder...

Luke 18:10-14
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to ME A SINNER.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

P.s. You mentioned "I" no less than 11 times in your post in regards to your religion. Good luck with that when you stand before God.
edit on 15-2-2012 by KJV1611 because: I



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 05:06 PM
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reply to post by KJV1611
 



Glad you rely so much on your position in life. I happily say I don't rely on anything I have done, my membership in my independent Baptist church (which you are using as your alibi), or my up bringing. I rely purely on the shed blood of Jesus Christ as my atonement to a ANGER, HOLY, and RIGHTEOUS God.


P.s. You mentioned "I" no less than 11 times in your post in regards to your religion. Good luck with that when you stand before God.

You don't rely on anything you have done, your membership in your independent Baptist church, or your upbringing. You rely purely on the shed blood of Jesus Christ as your atonement to this wrathful God.
Seven!
Seven times "I" and "my". In two sentences!
(See how silly your counting MY statements about ME and MY understanding are?)

It's good that YOU "happily don't rely on anything YOU have done," I guess, if that assuages or erases the things YOU have done that are....*cough* ....spreading discord among brethren.
Must be nice!

Well, when I stand before God, I dare say this "goody-do-gooder" will be in fine standing... and not need an independent Baptist as an alibi of any kind whatsoever. Cuz, ya know, that disrespectful judgment and condemnation that you preach is on, uh you.



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by KJV1611
 

P.s. You mentioned "I" no less than 11 times in your post in regards to your religion. Good luck with that when you stand before God.

This is a discussion forum and if all we wanted was verses there are lots of web sites for that.
People normally go on such forums as this for discussion and finding out how others view things, so I's are welcome.

The Pharisees were like the self-appointed holy men of their day where they took the seats of the elders taking their place based on their self esteemed merits of being doctors of the Law. They believed anyone not a Pharisee was a sinner if for no other reason than their inability to rightly distinguish between right and wrong. So they set up in their minds a caste system where there were eight levels of worth that people could fall under and they put themselves at level three only below the king and the high priests. Below them were only sinners and they made a point of making that well understood to those lower than them.
The point of all this being that the person believing himself a sinner was admitting he probably was while the Pharisee believed he was above all that, having the system "gamed" in today's vernacular.
edit on 15-2-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 05:13 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



so I's are welcome.

And you's are welcome, too!!

Thanks for the support.



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 05:18 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

He cannot forgive sins without penalty, that would compromise His justice.

You could not possibly be more wrong about anything.
The New Testament states that the mechanism of God's forgiveness of sins is by His forgetting them.


He forgives them because of Christ. By definition a judge that looks the other way when a person is guilty is not a just judge, we'd call them corrupt.



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



I don't think so, that's the fatal flaw, "stopping right there, PERIOD."

You're cherry-picking the attributes of God. Yes, He is love. But He is also Holy, Righteous, and Just. And He HATES sin and unrighteousness. He cannot forgive sins without penalty, that would compromise His justice.

I have no reason to think that this is an accurate statement.
In all of my years, I have never been told that God hates in that way. He is unconditionally loving, despite the suggestion that "we are not worthy so much as to pick up the crumbs under your table."


God names seven things He hates in the OT. Jesus names things He hates in Revelation.



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 05:23 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


If "it already happened in Matthew 21", what Jesus is speaking about in Matthew 23 is yet future. He uses the terms "again" and "until" both Christ, James, Peter, and Paul declare Israel's blindness is only temporary. And you are ignoring the fact that if God is provoking them to jealousy with the gentiles that means God still has plans to redeem them. Makes no sense otherwise.



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 



Well, when I stand before God, I dare say this "goody-do-gooder" will be in fine standing...

Your making this too easy again:

Remember what I said about God hating all the do good groups and love your fellow man groups you so love? I said God hates them right? Want proof your "wonderful works" will land you in Hell?

Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that WORK iniquity.

All works, regardless of how good you think they are, are useless without Jesus Christ and His blood being involved. Your "wonderful works" and benevolent groups are considered workers of iniquity in God's eyes.



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by KJV1611
 



Your making this too easy again:

Remember what I said about God hating all the do good groups and love your fellow man groups you so love? I said God hates them right? Want proof your "wonderful works" will land you in Hell?

Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that WORK iniquity.

All works, regardless of how good you think they are, are useless without Jesus Christ and His blood being involved. Your "wonderful works" and benevolent groups are considered workers of iniquity in God's eyes.

And, you are making me out to be something I'm not "again."
I have never said I don't believe in Christ. I do. I believe in what he taught. And, I don't "prophesy" or "cast out devils".....
Here, I'll hold the reins while you dismount your high horse....



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


And I don't care whether you believe in Christ or not, that is completely irrelevant. The question is, what have you DONE WITH CHRIST?

And do try and answer the scriptures I posted to you instead of justifying the conviction you are feeling by attacking my comments and not the TEXT presented.



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by KJV1611
 


These ones?

Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that WORK iniquity.

Yes, he is talking about people who do those things to IMPRESS others or get an 'A' grade with God, when their heart is not in it.
That was easy. Apparently it is beneath you to read people's posts and try to glean an understanding of them. Also, I don't go round saying "I'm being nice in the name of Christ." So your verses don't apply to me.

Satisfied?



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 05:46 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

He forgives them because of Christ. By definition a judge that looks the other way when a person is guilty is not a just judge, we'd call them corrupt.

God went to a lot of trouble to have it that way, where we could be forgiven, since there is one representative of the human race who can actually pass a judgment if there was one, then He went ahead and set up a judgment process. Where without Jesus there would be no reason to even have a judgment since it would have already have been known what the results would be.
Jesus, it is explained in the New Testament, is the judgment seat itself, analogous to what it was in the Old Testament, a place of Judgment where The Lord would appear, between the covering Cherub to pass judgement over the people of Israel.
One way to think of it may be to have Jesus being the lens through which God sees us. An inter-dimensional portal where God is in some unimaginably distant place so he turns on his star-gate and it becomes a screen to look through but does not step through himself but trusts the keeper of the gate, on the other side, to be pointing it properly so He can see things appropriately.
The important thing would be that Jesus, like the High Priest of the Old Testament System would present the best picture of who is being judged. So, God is not being neglectful on His part and Jesus is behaving correctly as our presenter, and our advocate is working hard to make it to where there is a good picture to be taken.


edit on 15-2-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)




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