State Considers Law to Bypass Gun Permits

reply to post by pteridine
so you would feel safe in a bar with CCW , when the shooting starts stand still you'll be fine move you could be hit. see here when i say bar or pub it is not just beer served consumed but the hard stuff as well, have we come to days of W .E. not yet but Dodge city is here to stay CCW or not open carry , just makes it more open as to who is carrying, than who is not, I would be one of them open carry's.

Originally posted by bekod
reply to post by pteridine

 

so you would feel safe in a bar with CCW , when the shooting starts stand still you'll be fine move you could be hit. see here when i say bar or pub it is not just beer served consumed but the hard stuff as well, have we come to days of W .E. not yet but Dodge city is here to stay CCW or not open carry , just makes it more open as to who is carrying, than who is not, I would be one of them open carry's.

My positon is that there should be no firearms in a bar, concealed or not. In Dodge City, they should check their guns at the door. When any shooting starts, standing still is a bad plan, especially in a closed area. Semidrunken gunfighters may not be able to hit what they are aiming at but will be able to discharge a weapon without much trouble. Getting down and behind something and then out the back door is a good plan. Arguments in bars are hardly a reason to get perforated and the shooters will have a good deal to explain when they are arrested.

I believe that open carry makes one a target, as I stated previously, and could actually precipitate a fight. Further, states that allow carry without permits may not be able to participate in reciprocal carry laws as there would be no permit to reciprocate with.
I agree that some concealed carry is not so concealed. Anyone showing up with a safari vest is suspect, especially when the vest seems to weigh a few extra pounds because the person wearing it feels safer with three extra magazines for a two pound .40 cal autoloader.

reply to post by pteridine
most CCW's I know are 3 piece suite and tie wearers, and no they are not leo's or security, just your run of the mill businessmen. they just feel safe with their 38's and ppk's

Originally posted by bekod
reply to post by pteridine

 

most CCW's I know are 3 piece suite and tie wearers, and no they are not leo's or security, just your run of the mill businessmen. they just feel safe with their 38's and ppk's

What do you feel safe with? Did you have enough gun and ammunition in all of your gunfights?

reply to post by pteridine
what gunfights?? the most I've shot is some poor paper target, like all the others i know carrying and using are 2 different things, yes the ones that carry, know how and when to use, with common sense would be never, but then you never know what might come at you nowadays.

Originally posted by randomname
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".

the second amendment is not to protect peoples right to bear arms but to protect a militia's ability to be armed for the security of the state.

people conveniently ignore the first half of the amendment.

so unless you're in a militia, ready to defend your country, you have no right to a firearm.

edit on 10-2-2012 by randomname because: (no reason given)

Jefferson said that the most egregious reason for the people to bear arms was, as a last resort, to defend themselves against tyranny in government. His statement alone makes it rather difficult to argue that the second amendment only applies to state militias.

I would provide a link but I am posting from my phone and can't but search engines are your friend so look it up and do some reading on the writings of our founders, most notably Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton, and John Jay. Jay was the first USSC Justice and was a staunch believer in 2nd amendment rights of the people.

Originally posted by bekod
reply to post by pteridine

 

what gunfights?? the most I've shot is some poor paper target, like all the others i know carrying and using are 2 different things, yes the ones that carry, know how and when to use, with common sense would be never, but then you never know what might come at you nowadays.

It is true that you should rigorously avoid such use except to defend a life. You would hope that the ones who are armed would "know how and when to use" and I'm certain that they do when discussing this among themselves. The problem is adrenaline. Gunfights may not provide advance notice and come on really fast. Training is fine but paper doesn't shoot back, adding to the excitement. Reason and logic may leave as soon as the participants realize they are in or near a gunfight; disbelief for the first few seconds is normal unless you are expecting it. Police and military are more in tune and react faster. Nothing may be what you expect. Is it a serial killer or an undercover police officer shooting at an innocent bystander or an escaped convict. Who do you shoot? With an open carry firearm, you could be in the jackpot because the other guys don't know who or what you are either, just that you are armed and could be part of the action.
This is why I argue against open carry. Blend in, retreat, stay down and use your weapon as a last defensive resort.

reply to post by pteridine
so in essence your for a tax er CCW permit other than the no tax free open carry??? now i see where your coming from it is not that your against the right to defend one self but the right to do so freely

Originally posted by bekod
reply to post by pteridine

 

so in essence your for a tax er CCW permit other than the no tax free open carry??? now i see where your coming from it is not that your against the right to defend one self but the right to do so freely

It is the open carry that I disagree with. Some states allow concealed carry without permits but without a permit the states that don't have permits won't reciprocate. I prefer a permit system so when I travel out of state, reciprocal agreements allow me to be armed, if I choose to be. Some states are still problematic for me but they are slowly coming around. Illinois is still in the dark ages but that is their problem.
You can always freely defend yourself in a permit system. You just can't carry a gun unless you have a permit. Maybe your state legislature will make permits free. As to the cost, what does a permit cost per year in your state? More or less than a driver's license? If you spend hundreds of dollars on a pistol, and hundreds more on ammunition, how significant is the cost of a permit? A permit good for 5 years costs $20 at my County Sherrif's office.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


About damn time more States followed the actions of Arizona.

Now, lets hope that the NRA doesn't rally against it, as they have a very high membership of CCW instructors, and the NRA hosts many of those courses.

reply to post by pteridine
yep a tax Utah has free open carry there are some rules but if i feel the need to i can and no permit needed er tax, so if you see a old six on some one side it could be me, not that i would, but it is nice to know i could.