Greek largest police union wants to arrest EU/IMF officials

Originally posted by Vitchilo
reply to post by Flavian

 

Revolution usually means a significant change within a country but even if this happens in Greece, it won't actually change anything. The money will still be owed, they will still have no money to pay wages, pensions, benefits, etc.

Wrong.

They could make a revolution and default since their own government is too corrupt to do so. Tell the banksters to eat their losses.

Pull an Iceland. It works.

Except Iceland didnt default, did they? I have no idea why so many people believe erroneously that Iceland defaulted and things are hunky dorry over there.

The truth is, they acted responsibly, carried through with difficult austerity, and got their books in order. To a point, they still arent completely in the clear. Yes, your right, Greece could learn a thing or two from Iceland. Act responsibly and pay back money you borrowed rather than make other countries pay for their excess.

reply to post by Vaski

Originally posted by Vaski
Europe is now one big State/Province, and Greece has been allocated to become the poor suburb so Germany and France build their countries with wealth from their Greek slaves.

Would you mind explaining to me how Germany (as in "German citizens") is in any way profiting from what is happening in Greece right now?

Because the way I see it there is no wealth transferred from Greece to Germany... quite the opposite.

The bailout money also goes to the banksters for the most part... not Germany.

Nevermind.

reply to post by ColCurious


Very simple. I'm describing Europe as a Country in a whole, no matter what pretend borders they have up.

Greece is poor, high unemployment, more people are willing to take lesser paying jobs. Corporations come in and hire these minimal wage people to do work for them. These corporations are owned by the people in the richer nations such as Germany and France, Money gets transferred that way.

I'm assuming that Europe wanted their own little India/China of cheap labor for their corporations, one they can control more closely and lend to their citizens in their revolving cycle of poverty the will find themselves in.

Also another point that a lot of people seem to forget is that the reason why their needs to be more money from the Euro money pool pumped into Greece than any other Country is because Greece is at the front-line of Europe, when the Euro opened and we saw a massive influx of illegal immigrants enter, their entry point is Greece, where they hang around for a few months before trying to figure out how to move onto the country of their choice. Greece should and needs to be offered a lot of money for being the border protection for all of Europe and there are a lot of problems that come hand in hand with illegal immigration and trying to fight it.

Even with the money Greece owes, where do you think the money went? did the money disappear in thin air? The money was borrowed from Germany and France, and eventually made its way back to their economies one way or another. The Greeks didn't just borrow a whole lot of cash and then have a massive Euro burning party, and also the majority of it didn't go back into Greece because if it did their economy would be a lot stronger.


For example, one not perfect but it was my first search, so I'm guessing there is plenty more.
Siemens in a German Corperation.

The 2008 Siemens scandal in Greece was a corruption and bribery scandal that hit Greece over deals between Siemens AG and Greek government officials during the 2004 Summer Olympic Games in Athens[1] regarding security systems[2] and purchases by OTE in the 1990s.[3] Charges have, as of 27 August 2008, not been bought against any specific individual, as under Greek law charges can be filled against "any responsible person".[3] So far, no wrongdoing has been proved, either by Siemens, by Greek government officials, or anyone else.

So Greece borrowed money from Germany to build infrastructure for the Olympic Games, and overpaid a German Company to do the work. So did the money ever enter Greece? Which economy benefited from this transaction?

reply to post by Vaski

Originally posted by Vaski
The money was borrowed from Germany and France, and eventually made its way back to their economies one way or another.

You might want to take a look at the chart in Vitchilo's post here (or directly at the source here) to see where the bailout money really ends up.

Other than that, if the Greek want to buy goods from Germany they naturally have to pay for it.
Everything else you mentioned is pretty much internal politics... illegal immigration and corruption are problems every country has to deal with.

Siemens committed a criminal offence? Well, then the Greek should go ahead and sue them.
Greek workers don't want to work low-wage jobs? Then they should leave the EZ/EU, regain their sovereignty and enact proper labour laws.

Look, I know things are bad in Greece and I know how all this started. I even defended the Greek when others wanted to blame them solely for the mess they're in, but I'm getting tired of the anti-German sentiment that we are somehow profiting from the Greek people's suffering or even orchestrated it for our amusement.

Using Germany as a scapegoat won't help Greece to get out of this mess.