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The Catholic Church and Birth Control.....My Opinion

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posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 05:25 PM
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As I was slaving away at work this morning, one of my coworkers stopped by to discuss current political issues. We talk almost daily about what's going on in the political realm and although we are both Republicans, we differ in our opinions on many issues.

Today's discussion was about the Catholic Church/healthcare/birth control debate. He maintains the position that the Catholic Church should not be beholdent to any law that dictates what they should offer employees for healthcare or what the plan would cover.

My opinion is that the federal government should not be involved in healthcare to begin with. There is no constitutional mandate for the federal government to provide healthcare, but I am open to states and/or local comunities working out healthcare options that fits the local people as needed. Also, I think that allowing certain exemptions for religious institutions in regards to their employment policies opens a door that is best left closed. If one religious group is allowed "privilege" through federal legislation, it will only be a matter of time and we will see exemptions for others. Then we will have a debate about which religious beliefs are acceptable to society and should be granted favor through legislation. I believe that could throw the country down one treacherous slippery slope.

We continued to discuss the issue and even talked about the comments Santorum has made concerning this issue. Eventually, it had an epiphany of sorts. This entire issue was not about healthcare plans, left vs. right or politics in general.

This is about using government policy to make Catholics remain faithful!

Let's say Catholics do have access to free contraceptives through their healthcare plan, if they were true to their beliefs...they would not use it. It is as simple as that. Why must we make federal policy directed towards a specific religious group and their beliefs? If it is against their beliefs, and they adhere to those beliefs, they will not use that resource.

So in my opinion this is just a load of garbage with the intent to force Catholics to remain faithful to what they are told to. In a way, you could say it is religious tyranny.

I could be wrong, but that's what I think How about you...what do you think?
edit on 9-2-2012 by sheepslayer247 because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by sheepslayer247
 


There is actually an alternative to birth control. It's called insanity!
Yep, insane is what you become after you've been procreating like rabbits. Personally, I think birth control is a much better option. I agree with you though. If someone doesn't believe in birth control they simply won't take advantage of that benefit. I think that the Catholic church should have to offer it in their employee's health care plans, same as everyone else. Why should their employees be excluded from the same benefits as everyone else? The church and the government both need to stay out of our bedrooms period!



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by sheepslayer247
 


I was having a similar discussion last night. It would also open the door for the catholic church, or any other church, to impose all sorts of health care restrictions. I absolutely agree with you on that. And what if you work at a catholic hospital, or university and you are not catholic, you are forced into their religious beliefs, even if they are not your beliefs.

Not only tyranny, but squelching religious freedom as well.
On their on faith and the faith of others.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by britelite1971
 




The church and the government both need to stay out of our bedrooms period!

I agree! Government has no place whatsoever to be involved in what goes on in the bedroom, but what about the church? Many religions have strict rules for sexual contact.

If a Catholic church is allowed exemption for employee healthcare coverage based on their beliefs, does that also mean they can lobby for legislation that would allow them to deny services for "non-faithful" people at a Catholic hospital?
edit on 9-2-2012 by sheepslayer247 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 05:46 PM
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reply to post by sheepslayer247
 


"Let's say Catholics do have access to free contraceptives through their healthcare plan, if they were true to their beliefs...they would not use it. It is as simple as that. Why must we make federal policy directed towards a specific religious group and their beliefs? If it is against their beliefs, and they adhere to those beliefs, they will not use that resource."

very well said....

If the government tells you to provide insurance for you employees you provide it. If the government uses your tax money to fight wars you don't agree with you pay your tax's.
I see it as the same thing...and Jesus said pay Ceasars things to Ceasar so...pay your tax's, provide insurance. And do whatever else the government that is elected tells ya to do.

If good catholics don't wanna use the resources provided to them, that is their choice.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 05:50 PM
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If Catholics are going to use birth control, they will regardless of what the Church or the government have to say. To force Catholic hospitals to provide Plan B pills is a farce. They can be bought at the pharmacy without a prescription and without age requirements thanks to the "pro-life" back stabber George W. Bush.

That women want Catholic organizations to provide them with insurance for contraceptives so they don't have to shell out the money for it really selfish. I would not expect or force an individual to do something they considered immoral, nor would I expect or force a religion to go against their own teachings.

It's not like pro-lifer's aren't already paying for abortions by paying taxes.


The government is getting deeper and deeper in our underwear drawers with each passing day.
edit on 2/9/2012 by sad_eyed_lady because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 05:51 PM
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Originally posted by sheepslayer247
reply to post by britelite1971
 




The church and the government both need to stay out of our bedrooms period!

I agree! Government has no place whatsoever to be involved in what goes on in the bedroom, but what about the church? Many religions have strict rules for sexual contact.

If a Catholic church is allowed exemption for employee healthcare coverage based on their beliefs, does that also mean they can lobby for legislation that would allow them to deny services for "non-faithful" people at a Catholic hospital?
edit on 9-2-2012 by sheepslayer247 because: (no reason given)


IMHO they can preach what they want in the pulpit, but that's where it should end. People should be allowed to make up their own minds about what they believe and the choices they make. It shouldn't be forced on them.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by Wetpaint72
reply to post by sheepslayer247
 


I was having a similar discussion last night. It would also open the door for the catholic church, or any other church, to impose all sorts of health care restrictions. I absolutely agree with you on that. And what if you work at a catholic hospital, or university and you are not catholic, you are forced into their religious beliefs, even if they are not your beliefs.

Not only tyranny, but squelching religious freedom as well.
On their on faith and the faith of others.


No you are not! If you dont want the help of those people... why go? No one forces you into any religions. This isnt Iran..



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 06:00 PM
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It absolutely is a means for controlling people. They think if the people don't have birth control, they'll not only be faithful, they'll have more Catholic babies. It's CONTROL and nothing else. The Catholic Church is all about appearances. 80% of Catholic women use birth control, but the men in the leadership positions don't like it, so they act like no Catholics use birth control. Ha!

What this is really about is CHOICE. Catholic leaders don't like their women having choices about things. They don't like the idea of people being free to make the choice for their lives.

Republicans say they support freedoms and personal responsibility, but this is a case where they do NOT!



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 06:09 PM
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I would not put it past Obama to write an Executive Order stating that this is not a theological issue and that birth control/abortion insurance must be mandated for all without question as it is legal.

Talk about a SHTF scenario.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 06:13 PM
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The point is that the Catholic organizations will have to use their own personal funds to finance health insurance which covers something which is a sin in their theology. I hear the argument “well 98% of Catholic women use contraception”. Okay, so 98% of Catholic women are committing a sin. Why should the Church itself have to cover this sin with their pocketbook? Just because 98% of women violate the teachings does not make the teachings void.

Contraception is wrong. It violates the teachings of the Church and to force them into covering something they see as inherently wrong, you are violating not only their conscience but what is considered to be absolutely wrong. Would you care to cover the cost of someone engaging in pedophilia? Of course not! It is absolutely, morally, and undeniably wrong! But, you say, that does not mean everyone is going to engage in pedophilia, so what does it matter if your money goes into funding the necessary ‘supplies’ for the criminal to engage in the act?

Those who suggest this is a problem arising from too big of a state are right. This would not even be an issue if the government was not involved in health care. They should not be involved in health care. The state is actively against Catholic morality so the smaller government in this nation is, the safer our religious institutions will be.

I am Roman Catholic, although never baptized into the religion, and try to adhere to the theological teachings best I can. There is no way they would ever force me to cover contraception with my money just as I would not expect PETA to cover clubbing seals with their money. That is a rather poor analogy because our morality is Catholic; it is viewed as the one and only morality. So you are necessarily advocating for nothing short of sinful, immoral, and dangerous acts to be paid for with our money. That makes one an accomplice to a holy crime.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
It absolutely is a means for controlling people.


Yup, the government is definitely using this as means to control. Telling a major religion they must go against their own teaching.

Catholics have Natural Family Planning and they are not trying to make more babies for perpetuation of the faith.
If you scoff NFP I will know you know not what it is all about. I have 2 sons because I knew how to use the method. Not 10 just 2.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 06:45 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


But the fail is that the gov't is doing the same thing taking away choice. Say for instance the gov't started to require all citizens to own and maintain a gun and due to what ever religious belief you hold you didn't ? It is interfering in a matter that the gov't should not be involved in. What's next a requirement for Hindus to eat beef because of a claimed health benefit? It's about overstepping the bounds of governance over religious belief.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by Misoir
 




The state is actively against Catholic morality so the smaller government in this nation is, the safer our religious institutions will be.


I agree and disagree at the same time with this statement.

The less government we have the safer our liberties are, but I don't think the state is actively campaigning against Catholic morality.

Since we all have different definitions of morality, those in public service sometimes use morality that differs from ours to create legislation. So the smaller the government the better.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by sheepslayer247
 


The way I see it:

Catholics don't want to offer birth control to their workers. Don't like it? Work somewhere else.

And !@$! the Government.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 10:38 PM
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If the Catholics don't use birth control then how is Nancy Pelosi going to make it to Hell with Obama?

I'm so confused


Oh yeah, I remember. This is only news because everyone needs a lobotomy in America.
edit on 9-2-2012 by spinalremain because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 10:52 PM
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Originally posted by sheepslayer247

This is about using government policy to make Catholics remain faithful!

Let's say Catholics do have access to free contraceptives through their healthcare plan, if they were true to their beliefs...they would not use it. It is as simple as that. Why must we make federal policy directed towards a specific religious group and their beliefs? If it is against their beliefs, and they adhere to those beliefs, they will not use that resource.

So in my opinion this is just a load of garbage with the intent to force Catholics to remain faithful to what they are told to. In a way, you could say it is religious tyranny.

I could be wrong, but that's what I think How about you...what do you think?
edit on 9-2-2012 by sheepslayer247 because: (no reason given)


Try to put it in a different context. It'd be akin to having bacon on a breakfast buffet for muslims. Yes, they can chose not to eat it as a nod towards their religion. But most would see it as an insult, an afront, an attack on what they believe and how they chose to believe.

The Obama administration is violating the 1st ammendment. They are insulting those that choose to practice the catholic faith.

I can't make it any plainer than that.
edit on 9-2-2012 by beezzer because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


I need to make it clear that I believe any federal government entity does not have any right to impose mandates on the people.

Let's also be serious! There are many Muslims in America and there are many buffets in America as well. How may buffet establishments have been sued by Mulsims because the restaurant had bacon on the table?

I would bet it is none, or very few!

Personal freedoms come with personal responsibility. Therefore, the people have to LIVE by their convictions and not expect a government to force them into submission through legislation!



posted on Feb, 10 2012 @ 12:08 AM
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Originally posted by sheepslayer247

Personal freedoms come with personal responsibility. Therefore, the people have to LIVE by their convictions and not expect a government to force them into submission through legislation!


Exactly!
Why should catholics be forced to provide services that go against their beliefs?

It is the government that is over-ruling tenents of a faith.

Don't like the services a faith-based organization provides?

Go elsewhere.



posted on Feb, 10 2012 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


No religious or private entity should be forced to do anything, except follow some basic rules that we all must follow....but that isn't the issue.

What I am concerned about is the precedent being set when we allow a religious group to take exception through federal legislation. What if Muslims, Christians or Scientologists(sp) come out and say that they are going to staff their churches with 7 year old boys. Should we allow them to lobby Congress for the right to be exempt from child labor laws, solely because they are a religious institution?

That is the slippery slope I am talking about. Where do separate function of government for the people and to protect the people's rights, and the right of religious groups to do as they please?
edit on 10-2-2012 by sheepslayer247 because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-2-2012 by sheepslayer247 because: (no reason given)



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