Just found out my Dad was a Freemason apprentice, page 4

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reply posted on 10-2-2012 @ 09:23 AM by JoshNorton

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Not according to the lodge my brother just joined and the ones my dad and grandad are in. They will not take you if youre not christian.

A lot of lodges have bigots. It's best to avoid said lodges and let them and their racist ways die out.

reply posted on 10-2-2012 @ 09:23 AM by no1smootha

reply to post by whenandwhere

Ksig, I am not a member of the Commandery, but I understood that a non Christian may even join if they agree to defend Christianity. Is that correct?

Lonewolf, I don't know how I missed that statement but the Brethren are right. Freemasonry is not exclusively Christian. It is not permitted to ask anything more than whether the prospect believes in a Supreme Being. Otherwise, it is highly irregular as the others have said.

reply posted on 10-2-2012 @ 09:37 AM by whenandwhere

Originally posted by no1smootha
reply to post by whenandwhere

Ksig, I am not a member of the Commandery, but I understood that a non Christian may even join if they agree to defend Christianity. Is that correct?

I am not Ksig . It is according to who you talk to but according to the Grand Encampment of the Knights Templar of the USA , the answer would be NO , a non Christian may not join .

www.knightstemplar.org...

Section 177 b & d

(b) Who is a firm believer in the Christian religion; and (c) Who is physically able to conform to the ceremonies of the Order or whose physical inability to so conform shall have been
waived by Dispensation of the Grand Commander in the case of a Constituent Commandery
or of the Grand Master in the case of a Subordinate Commandery; and (1949, p 389 ‐ 394)

(d) of
Section 177. The Petitioner shall declare that he is a firm believer in the Christian religion, that
he has read the Petition and that he has personally signed the same. The Petition must be
signed by two members of the Commandery petitioned who shall vouch for the good character
and Masonic standing of the petitioner and recommend favorable action. (1940, p 255)(1958. p.
5 & 319‐320)

Edit to add : I guess it could be open to interpretation . I have heard that there are some non-Christians in other Grand Encampments other than my own . I can only go by what I am told by the Right Eminent Grand Commander of my jurisdiction .

edit on 10-2-2012 by whenandwhere because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 10-2-2012 @ 10:21 AM by KSigMason

reply to post by phantomjack

I had some lady come up to me and tell me that she knew what we did during our rituals. I asked her what that was and she said that we kiss the penis of the Worshipful Master. I said, "Sure do." and smiled. She was shocked and asked why I was admitting it. I said "It's not bad since I am the Worshipful Master".

She didn't find it as funny as I did as I laughed for a good 5-minutes. It pissed her off as she couldn't go anywhere as we were on a plane.

Originally posted by no1smootha
Ksig, I am not a member of the Commandery, but I understood that a non Christian may even join if they agree to defend Christianity. Is that correct?

I think you meant whenandwhere.

I've seen some try to argue for the admission of non-Christians, but its kind of a moot point as the Grand Encampment spells it out and it's illogical to be of one faith and promise to uphold the ideals of another.

reply posted on 10-2-2012 @ 10:28 AM by no1smootha

reply to post by whenandwhere

Yes, my mistake. I was asking you this question, whenandwhere. Thank you for your reply. I learned something new today.

reply posted on 10-2-2012 @ 10:46 AM by kinglizard

My 91 year old grandfather is a Freemason and out of respect I never ask his to break his oath by sharing masonic rituals. A man is his word and I'd never forgive myself my getting my grandfather to break his...not that he would.

Food for thought.

reply posted on 10-2-2012 @ 11:34 AM by TheGreatest

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by TheGreatest
He was telling me about his initiation, and this is the first time i've heard about it. He mentioned that it is just like a big gentleman's club where people go and get plastered on meetings. He was telling me about the secret handshake he had to do which was fascinating but all in all being just an apprentice he wasn't told a great deal.

Anyone else had any family members keep freemasonry membership a secret? or does anyone have any questions they want me to ask my Dad? (Bear in mind he was only an apprentice and left nearly 25 years ago.)
edit on 9-2-2012 by TheGreatest because: (no reason given)

If he told you about the secret handshake then he should be kicked out, because thats one of the two things you are absolutely forbidden to do.

If he opened his mouth about the handshake he should never have been invited into the brotherhood. Loose lips sink ships. What is his lodge number and name?

If you read my first post, I explained he left 25 years ago before becoming a full mason, he was only an apprentice when he left.

reply posted on 10-2-2012 @ 03:20 PM by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by phantomjack

I had some lady come up to me and tell me that she knew what we did during our rituals. I asked her what that was and she said that we kiss the penis of the Worshipful Master. I said, "Sure do." and smiled. She was shocked and asked why I was admitting it. I said "It's not bad since I am the Worshipful Master".

She didn't find it as funny as I did as I laughed for a good 5-minutes. It pissed her off as she couldn't go anywhere as we were on a plane.

Well played. I'll have to keep that one in my back pocket for when I eventually make it to the East.

I can just picture the body English through that.

Fitz

reply posted on 10-2-2012 @ 03:26 PM by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by kinglizard
My 91 year old grandfather is a Freemason and out of respect I never ask his to break his oath by sharing masonic rituals. A man is his word and I'd never forgive myself my getting my grandfather to break his...not that he would.

Food for thought.

I guess what gets me is that for those who think there's something hugely untoward going on, joining, discovering all the dirty little secrets we Masons hide from the world at large and then exposing them in time to garner a well-earned Pulitzer Prize should be an easy-peasey no-brainer. I suspect that more than a few have probably trod this path, invested much time only to find out that Masonry is in fact as presented.

I only wish being a Mason actually meant life entailed an all-powerful control of life in general. Things'd be a whole heck of a lot easier in this neck of the woods. Guess I should've looked into F&AM instead of AF&AM dammit

Fitz

reply posted on 11-2-2012 @ 05:34 PM by LeSigh

reply to post by TheGreatest

Your dad sounds like my grandfather. I have a great uncle who is in the Scottish Rite and I think he got my grandfather involved- but in typical fashion, when he realized there would be a commitment with memorization, meetings, and rituals- he gave it up to spend more time sitting on the couch playing solitaire, drinking vodka, and watching Perry Mason and Bonanza re-runs.

Most Masons seem to be good guys who just like the idea of socializing and being involved in charity work. If there is a Masonic conspiracy, I don't think most of them are in on it.

My only issues with the Freemasons are the following: From a religious standpoint, my Church (Orthodox) sees Masonry as taking the inspiration for its rituals, etcetera, from ancient mystery religions. We're actually not allowed to join Masonic organizations because they are secret societies (even if they are lame secrets) and we disagree with the concept that all religions are equal or whatnot.

reply posted on 11-2-2012 @ 07:05 PM by JoshNorton

Originally posted by LeSigh
My only issues with the Freemasons are the following: From a religious standpoint, my Church (Orthodox) sees Masonry as taking the inspiration for its rituals, etcetera, from ancient mystery religions.

Perhaps. Though we do quote the old testament in each of our initiation ceremonies. (Psalm133, Amos Ch 7, and Ecclesiastes Ch 12) and the Bible is open to one of those pages when the lodge is open.

We're actually not allowed to join Masonic organizations because they are secret societies (even if they are lame secrets)

They ARE lame(ish) secrets, but being a secret society shouldn't preclude you from joining. The early church all worship was done in secret…

and we disagree with the concept that all religions are equal or whatnot.

I can understand why the church would disagree with that if that's actually what we taught. And perhaps it's a matter of semantics. It's not that we say that all religions are equal. It's that we say that no religion can be verifiably proved "correct." So if you want to have your faith, and I want to have my faith, we should be able to still do good deeds together without our particular religions getting in the way of that. Honestly, I have more problem with people trying to "convert" someone to another religion than I do with a "live and let live" situation.

My own take is, nobody will find out if their religion was the "right" one, or if they worshiped in the "right" way until we die anyway. It's all faith, and the best we can do is to live a good life until then.

reply posted on 12-2-2012 @ 09:44 AM by driley

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

The first reliable account of a Jewish man joining Freemasonry occurs in the Grand Lodge of England (Moderns, for those who will know what that means) in 1723. This is at a time when a Jewish person in England could not vote, could not be elected to public office and would be ineligible to serve on a jury.

Freemasonry has long stood for religious tolerance. This has, over the years, been one of the primary reasons intolerant religious bigots have hated the fraternity.

reply posted on 23-2-2012 @ 08:55 AM by excelents

Originally posted by TheGreatest
reply to post by thePharaoh

He left a long time ago, he didn't become a full mason he left whilst he was an apprentice but he did have his uniform but not eh dagger or anything. He did complete the ritual with the noose around the neck and a dagger to the heart and the skull and bones.

If his Lodge was in the UK i.e part of the United Grand Lodge of England the Skull and Bones would not have featured in a first degree ceremony that is to say the Entered Apprentice's degree !

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