Mass-arrest attempt on video - proof that CA riot police are the ones inciting violence

Originally posted by JoshF
reply to post by eNumbra

 

at 4:09 you see the cops pass by some guy just standing on the side walk, not exactly "rounding him up"

Guy has a camera, he could be a journalist, or a resident of the building he's in front of. I assume, I could be wrong, but I assume a protester would be in the mix with the other protesters.

at 5:03 you see a guy in a white shirt walk right through the police line
again at 5:10 you see people let right through

As to keeping them off the street; they had the two intersections blocked, there was no safety issue. So it appears they kept them off the street so they could tighten their line.

I would think trying to let them leave, they would employ a more friendly looking-line.

Originally posted by LongbottomLeaf
reply to post by 1825114

 

Then the violent slobs cry when people fight back.

Who was "fighting back"?

reply to post by eNumbra

As to keeping them off the street; they had the two intersections blocked, there was no safety issue. So it appears they kept them off the street so they could tighten their line.

Tighten their line that they were letting people right through? Did you think that they wanted to open the streets back up and were clearing them off so they could do that?
I really don't get this at all, they all want to protest in the park so they go into the street. Then when the cops make them get off the street and stay in the park they want to leave. It seems like they will stop at nothing to find things to complain about.

Guy has a camera, he could be a journalist, or a resident of the building he's in front of. I assume, I could be wrong, but I assume a protester would be in the mix with the other protesters.

Great what about all the other people that they let walk out?

reply to post by JoshF


Its frustrating to hear your view as it's one sided and very subjective. I'm happy to hear what you have to say, but please be realistic and put yourself in the shoes of the people in the crowd. Imagine what might be going through your head. Adrenaline, confusion, a bit of panic and excitement.

In nature, predators go after the ones who leave the protection of the crowd. I think your natural instinct would incline you to stick with a crowd and try to form a "flock". Protects you from not being picked out and prayed on by the predators. In this case, a intimidating militarized police mob, loaded with both lethal and non-lethal weapons and itching to use them.

I understand that some, not all of the cops might be scared and they also might not want to hurt anyone. The situation is complicated and we might not always be able to agree on everything. However, in this case, I think it is clear that a certain, illegal tactic of Kettling was taking place and was organized by the police.

They clearly wanted to use force and intimidation against a non-violent protest.

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We need to get our heads out of the sand and stop arguing about the small things that do more damage than good.

Originally posted by JoshF

The result here is "inciting violence" that never happened right?

The violence [on the part of the crowd] never happened because they escaped through the fence that they were forced up against.

Originally posted by JoshF

And they let them leave, i didn't see them gassing and spraying the protesters for taking down the fence.

yeah, surrounding a crowd and backing them up against a fence is "letting them leave," just because the crowd was successful in breaking the barrier...

stop trolling my thread please

reply to post by 1825114


I guessed you missed the parts that show protesters being allowed to leave through the police line.

reply to post by 1825114


That's it, he is just trollin'. You said what we are all thinking.

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I have to contribute to the thread in some way now, so I'll state that breaking down the fence and getting away without altercation with the cops, demonstrated a fairly intelligent crowd who had violence as the last thing on their mind.

reply to post by philozofer

Its frustrating to hear your view as it's one sided and very subjective.

How am I anymore "one sided" than you?To point out parts of the video showing police clearly letting people through the police line is in no way subjective, do you know what that word means?
Ill give you an example

put yourself in the shoes of the people in the crowd. Imagine what might be going through your head. Adrenaline, confusion, a bit of panic and excitement.

In nature, predators go after the ones who leave the protection of the crowd. I think your natural instinct would incline you to stick with a crowd and try to form a "flock". Protects you from not being picked out and prayed on by the predators. In this case, a intimidating militarized police mob, loaded with both lethal and non-lethal weapons and itching to use them.

I understand that some, not all of the cops might be scared and they also might not want to hurt anyone. The situation is complicated and we might not always be able to agree on everything. However, in this case, I think it is clear that a certain, illegal tactic of Kettling was taking place and was organized by the police.

They clearly wanted to use force and intimidation against a non-violent protest.

--

We need to get our heads out of the sand and stop arguing about the small things that do more damage than good.

See that is a good example of something that is subjective

Originally posted by JoshF
reply to post by eNumbra

 

And they let them leave, i didn't see them gassing and spraying the protesters for taking down the fence.

Just a heads up this is somewhat false/misleading. The protesters were completely surrounded during this incident and there was no exit where they were allowed out for a time. The reason for this is up for debate, whether it be conflicting orders within the police ranks or intentional mass detainment. However they were not "allowed to leave" at the time.

One possible exit could be seen, but protesters attempting to leave were hit with flashbangs at that location. As a result of being trapped in the park, the protesters forced their way through a series of two chain link fences in an un-lit area of the park in order to leave it, the police did not anticipate this and were not in a position (literally) to do anything about it at that moment.

I'd argue that if the police were positioned at that side of the park, they would not have allowed them to leave through those fences. You can see that there is only one or two unit cars at the intersections of this area where they forced their way out.

The protesters were later detained en masse at a YMCA, after roaming the streets for a time. They did have a chance to disperse after exiting the park, but many opted not to and were eventually arrested.

reply to post by Sek82

Just a heads up this is somewhat false/misleading. The protesters were completely surrounded during this incident and there was no exit where they were allowed out for a time. The reason for this is up for debate, whether it be conflicting orders within the police ranks or intentional mass detainment. However they were not "allowed to leave" at the time.

I see people leaving I don't see anyone being stopped from leaving, where did you come up with this? If i missed it I will admit to being wrong but can you show me where people are being stopped from leaving?

One possible exit could be seen, but protesters attempting to leave were hit with flashbangs at that location.

I was not there and could not hear or see clearly what was going on but if you keep watching you will clearly see that the police let people leave after the flashbang goes off.

The protesters were later detained en masse at a YMCA, after roaming the streets for a time. They did have a chance to disperse after exiting the park, but many opted not to and were eventually arrested.

Once again they are in the street

you have 12 posts in this thread. That's more than half of the thread.

The things you're saying are clearly disputed in the video. You're acting like nobody was being blockaded because a small handful of people were able to filter through and the police weren't clubbing/spraying everyone, even though they are shooting grenades at them and closing in with more and more officers...

Are you trying to mislead the people who can't/won't watch the video for themselves?

Check out what happened to Carlos Miller from PINAC



1) He and few other reporters, no visible protesters are herded around. Maybe 50-100 cops in riot gear.
2) He asks to go to his car and that prompts an arrest for refusing to disperse.
3) That charge is later dropped and he is charged with resisting arrest without violence.
4) All this time there is other journalists there filming and reporting. He is the only one they arrest.
5) When he gets his camera gear back conviently one clip is missing and it takes him days to recover it.

3rd time's the charm or how they say. Pure police missconduct.

reply to post by 1825114

you have 12 posts in this thread. That's more than half of the thread.

The things you're saying are clearly disputed in the video.

What did i say that was disputed in the video?

You're acting like nobody was being blockaded because a small handful of people were able to filter through and the police weren't clubbing/spraying everyone, even though they are shooting grenades at them and closing in with more and more officers...

And yet you still dodge the issue, can you show me where people are being stopped from leaving? Yes or No? The only people i see trying to leave are allowed to leave, the video shows that and i have pointed it out. It is really hard to argue that they were not being allowed to leave when i see no proof of anyone trying to leave and being stopped. As far as i can tell the cops were trying to keep them off the street and kept them in the park. Those who wanted to leave left and once they cleared out of the street i did not see the police using any spray batons or flashbangs.

Are you trying to mislead the people who can't/won't watch the video for themselves?

No not at all, what i have said is the truth. Those who wanted to leave were allowed to leave, please proove me wrong. Show me the protesters trying to leave the area and being stopped by the police.

What this person managed to get video of is pretty important to anyone who intends to join the protest at any point. Pay attention to Police tactics. You can see how the Police have cut off exit points. You can see how Police are telling people to leave the area, at the same time cutting off any way for them to leave to area. You can see how Police escalated the violence before rushing into the crowd and you can see how the crowd is left no choice but to go through the fence.

But what do you see in the news?

"Police crack down on Protesters today after the Protesters began to vandalize the property around the Park, breaking down the fence and spilling into the street. Refusing to leave the area, Police had no choice but to make mass arrest"

It seems to me that the whole basis for being outraged here is faulty if not outright dishonest. I'd be outraged too if this were a group of citizens out to protest something without a long running history of violent clashes, rioting at various levels and outright stated disregard for the laws as enforced by the city.

The fact is that there IS a lot of history in Oakland between these same cops and these same protesters...over and over and over again. It's going to keep getting more extreme on both ends until one side or the other breaks. I know who I'd be putting money on...and sorry guys..it ain't Occupy for longevity for this kind of struggle.

The cops can out-nasty and out-force the protesters any time they choose to. They've chosen NOT to in most cases, but anyone who can't see that changing by now, probably deserves what they get out there. This isn't a protest anymore in places like Oakland, from what I watch. This is attempts at civil unrest. I supported one...and I'll support the ENDING of the latter.

Sorry to see that Occupy had to cross so many lines with so much gleeful disregard, but they did and here we are.

reply to post by 1825114


Thanks for the post...I have first hand experience with these tactics being employed by the SFPD and other consulted departments.

In the early Afghanistan war there was a huge wave of demonstrations. Many of them sponsored by move on. Please cut the George Soros/NWO bull and listen to my experience.

When George Bush the second was planning the Afghanistan war massive demonstrations occured. I attened a few of them when I had the time to go. The media reported that 5,000 protetors were participating. The real numbers counted by non mainstream media affiliates was more like 50,000 people.

That is a big difference. The police cornered off public streets. I didn't know how to get out. If anybody tried to cross certain areas they were met with brute force. One homeless man had his head beat in so serverly that he was nearly unconcious and should have had medical attention.

A concerned citizen who may or not have been party of the protest asked one of the officers if medical attention could be brought in. The officer who beat his head in sneered "oh it looks like he had a little too much too drink."

It was quite the sight. So basically the permiter of market street was closed off. They made it so there was technically only one way to exit and get to the other side of SF...it's kind of hard to get to the other side of San Francisco when you'd have to cross the Oakland bridge...Yes folks it was that much of a fence in.

It's absolutely sickening that no major media outlet will tell the truth about these demonstations. It's the same damn thing as Vietnam. Cointelpro is now more advanced.

The only way to fight and subvert this distopian media is via word of mouth. Cyberspace can''t be trusted anymore. It's great to discuss these videos via the net...but the only way the masses will hear the truth is if it is repeated over and over again....

Word of mouth is so much harder to convey because nobody want's to listen.

If the protesters didn't want to leave and were trying not to leave despite police orders to do so, then why would they all pour out of the fence? Are we to believe the protesters wanted to stay and get in a fight with the cops until someone tore the fence down, and then they all suddenly decided at the same time to change their minds?

Or is it the simpler answer.....they were trying to leave but couldn't get past the cops until they made their own exit? No, no, you're right, it's the more complicated answer---that they were trying to hold the park against the cops, which is why all four corners of the park had police forming a barricade, you know, to keep them cozy and give them a big group hug. Then the protesters decided the cops were being too fuzzy and warm for them, so they decided to tear down a fence and leave at the same time, because the hive-mind decided in 3/10ths of a second to give up the park and settle for a march instead. The convenient exits via the street were just too friendly for them.

Really, people, when Tahrir Square happened, everyone supported the protesters even when a handful got rowdy and broke windows and vandalized stores, because they were taking down The Mighty Oppressor, and they deserved their freedom and to determine how they wanted to govern themselves. It was like a friggin' global Grateful Dead concert with all the love and respect pouring out for the protesters there. So why do we look at our own people, our own fed-up oppressed masses trying to take down or at least change the tyrannical system they and so many others feel they're living under, and allow this kind of blatant disregard for our Constitutional rights to assembly and free speech, without fear of being treated like an automatic criminal for daring to take protesting further than the average useless day in a park holding a sign? The people breaking laws and infringing on other peoples' rights and happiness should absolutely be held accountable. But to assume the majority of the protesters are just like the small handful that suck is just ridiculous, and playing right into the hands of the establishment's desire for you to write off the OWS movement and not join it. Mubarak was nowhere near as smart and capable as our machine here in the US; that's why he lost. Our machine does not like losing.

reply to post by 00nunya00

I appreciate what the people in Tunisia and Egypt both accomplished. It is why I was part of Occupy myself for a brief time in October. However, this has had months to develop. It's flopped and it's showing no real signs of evolving. Instead it's devolving into running street fights and general unrest.

There is no comparison between this and Cairo in any way, shape or form. If an Occupy location gets a couple thousand people at the same time, it's in record breaking territory. The exceptions are a couple nights in New York City where OWS merged with ongoing protests and numbers grew insanely large for a single night and Oakland having actually given city workers and others the nod to take a day off and join things, back when Oakland was still half way supportive of Occupy there.

You say the Egyptians were taking down the mighty oppressor, and I won't debate that either way. I'm not Egyptian and it really is a thing for them to sort out. However, the only thing Occupy is taking down now are the mighty municipal budgets that aren't Congress. Cities can't spend play money and print more. It has to come from somewhere, and after MONTHS of this in places like Oakland, they're getting sick of it.

So are a lot of us, come to think of it. Go to D.C. and at least TRY and be like Cairo or admit Occupy was a great idea that just didn't work out...but this is getting ridiculous as it's carrying on now in the streets.

Originally posted by philozofer
reply to post by 1825114

 

That's it, he is just trollin'. You said what we are all thinking.

I don think he is trolling at all, in fact he is simply debating the issue. To many people around here lately saying.."OMG he doesn't agree with me, he must be trolling" it is getting to be ridiculous.

reply to post by JoshF


In this instance no one. The last time there was a showdown in Oakland one officer was injured and they made a week long stink about it.