reply to post by storm2012
It is a certainty that our prices will go up, the reason being the UK government gets 64% of the cost per litre of fuel here in the UK, so when its
£1.31 a litre here in the UK, the government gets a whopping £0.84 on every litre sold in Tax Duty.
They always raise the prices, always...but i cant live without my car, i need it for my job, which pays for my food and home...the UK populous is
caught right where the politicians want us to be, and there is nothing that can be done about it...
U.S. and Israel differ on Iran plan, page 2
privacy
reply posted on 9-2-2012 @ 10:00 AM by Tifozi
reply to post by will615
Looking at how they behaved since their birth, I seriously doubt that.
Not saying they don't have a right to be offensive in their strategy, but painting them as innocent and victims is a very sad mistake to make.
If people would care to educate them-selfs at what is going on, they would have different opinions. Read iranian press,read their opinions, look at their view points.
Their threats are defensive. They want to be left alone to carry on their internal policies, and grow as an economy inside Middle East. This is blatantly obvious, and most serious threats coming from Iran, are actual responses to western and israeli threats. From sanctions, to this constant talk of bombarding Iran.
It's pathetic.
Israel feels enough is enough about everything. From Palestine to Iran, they seem to have a very little patience threshold for a people who should have learned from their suffering.
The only reason why they don't attack, it's because of the same reason that has been the base-stone for decades: they need the U.S. help, otherwise they WILL be wiped out of the map, but not just by Iran, but all countries surrounding them who don't agree with Israel hostilities.
The U.S. should put Israel on a leash, and keep it that way. It's Israel constant cowardly attitude towards POSSIBLE threats that keeps destabilizing the whole region. They think that by striking first and with "good reasons", they can avoid problems.
Really? Then why have we seen constant war on that side of the world for decades, and so many of them connected with Israel "saying so"?
People should get a better perspective of things, just saying.
Israel wants peace.
Looking at how they behaved since their birth, I seriously doubt that.
Not saying they don't have a right to be offensive in their strategy, but painting them as innocent and victims is a very sad mistake to make.
Iran is the one calling them a cancer and wanting to wipe them off the Earth. If you kept getting threatened wouldn't you take action?
If people would care to educate them-selfs at what is going on, they would have different opinions. Read iranian press,read their opinions, look at their view points.
Their threats are defensive. They want to be left alone to carry on their internal policies, and grow as an economy inside Middle East. This is blatantly obvious, and most serious threats coming from Iran, are actual responses to western and israeli threats. From sanctions, to this constant talk of bombarding Iran.
It's pathetic.
(...)but if Israel feels enough is enough then I don't blame them. If they wanted to attack Iran that bad they would of by now.
Israel feels enough is enough about everything. From Palestine to Iran, they seem to have a very little patience threshold for a people who should have learned from their suffering.
The only reason why they don't attack, it's because of the same reason that has been the base-stone for decades: they need the U.S. help, otherwise they WILL be wiped out of the map, but not just by Iran, but all countries surrounding them who don't agree with Israel hostilities.
Like I said, if we're not going to help them we need to stay out of it.
The U.S. should put Israel on a leash, and keep it that way. It's Israel constant cowardly attitude towards POSSIBLE threats that keeps destabilizing the whole region. They think that by striking first and with "good reasons", they can avoid problems.
Really? Then why have we seen constant war on that side of the world for decades, and so many of them connected with Israel "saying so"?
People should get a better perspective of things, just saying.
reply posted on 9-2-2012 @ 10:05 AM by storm2012
reply to post by Tifozi
but chance of one of them attacking one or another is really high right now, and just that one attack will start the WW3, so they will have to play it smart
but chance of one of them attacking one or another is really high right now, and just that one attack will start the WW3, so they will have to play it smart
reply posted on 9-2-2012 @ 10:52 AM by will615
reply to post by Tifozi
Israel has been hated since their birth! And who' painting them as innocent? I'm not.
Iran's threats are defensive? Is that why their leader wants to bring about the 12th Iman?
Agreed that the people of Iran probably should feel defensive, but it's their government that's offensive just like here in the U.S.
Someone should put the U.S. on a leash and keep it that way! It's us that keep destabilizing the whole region because we can't keep our nose out of everyone's business.
People really do need to get a better perspective on things.
Israel has been hated since their birth! And who' painting them as innocent? I'm not.
Iran's threats are defensive? Is that why their leader wants to bring about the 12th Iman?
Agreed that the people of Iran probably should feel defensive, but it's their government that's offensive just like here in the U.S.
Someone should put the U.S. on a leash and keep it that way! It's us that keep destabilizing the whole region because we can't keep our nose out of everyone's business.
People really do need to get a better perspective on things.
reply posted on 9-2-2012 @ 02:01 PM by isaac7777
Originally posted by Tifozi
reply to post by will615
Israel wants peace.
Looking at how they behaved since their birth, I seriously doubt that.
Not saying they don't have a right to be offensive in their strategy, but painting them as innocent and victims is a very sad mistake to make.
Iran is the one calling them a cancer and wanting to wipe them off the Earth. If you kept getting threatened wouldn't you take action?
If people would care to educate them-selfs at what is going on, they would have different opinions. Read iranian press,read their opinions, look at their view points.
Their threats are defensive. They want to be left alone to carry on their internal policies, and grow as an economy inside Middle East. This is blatantly obvious, and most serious threats coming from Iran, are actual responses to western and israeli threats. From sanctions, to this constant talk of bombarding Iran.
It's pathetic.
(...)but if Israel feels enough is enough then I don't blame them. If they wanted to attack Iran that bad they would of by now.
Israel feels enough is enough about everything. From Palestine to Iran, they seem to have a very little patience threshold for a people who should have learned from their suffering.
The only reason why they don't attack, it's because of the same reason that has been the base-stone for decades: they need the U.S. help, otherwise they WILL be wiped out of the map, but not just by Iran, but all countries surrounding them who don't agree with Israel hostilities.
Like I said, if we're not going to help them we need to stay out of it.
The U.S. should put Israel on a leash, and keep it that way. It's Israel constant cowardly attitude towards POSSIBLE threats that keeps destabilizing the whole region. They think that by striking first and with "good reasons", they can avoid problems.
Really? Then why have we seen constant war on that side of the world for decades, and so many of them connected with Israel "saying so"?
People should get a better perspective of things, just saying.
First off, Iran has stated time and time again that they want to get rid of Israel, and we all know their goal of bringing on Armageddon and the 12th imam. Its ignorant to think otherwise, and ignorant to think that their nuclear goals, even with all the secrecy, is peaceful. If your existence was threatened daily, youd be in a constant state of war and self defense, as Israel is. Not because of itself, but because of the violent, stone age philosophy countries surrounding them. If Israel wasnt there, theyd be fighting amongst themselves. And to that accusation that Israel is cowardly and needs the help of the U.S...hop off the 'Israel is weak without America' bandwagon. Its not true. Theyre military is elite, and is only behind larger countries. They only lack in numbers, but they excel in skill and technology. I also believe they dont want us to get involved anymore. They can handle this war themselves, and they will.
reply posted on 10-2-2012 @ 08:35 AM by Tifozi
reply to post by storm2012
I agree with you.
Most people read my posts and completely fail to understand the type of thing I am saying. First off, I'm not pro-Iran, I'm anti-stupidity, and if we are going to start a war like the type of war that could come out of this, then it might as well be for the damn right reasons.
And who would have guessed, most of the reasons being thrown against Iran are plain stupid and ignorant, especially if you look at how most people see Iran in places like ATS, with a lot of emotional responses.
I think most arguments could end in a good debate and exchange of ideas, but the emotional part doesn't allow people to see it clearly. I'm neither american, nor israeli, nor iranian. I'm sort of "in the middle".
I agree with you.
Most people read my posts and completely fail to understand the type of thing I am saying. First off, I'm not pro-Iran, I'm anti-stupidity, and if we are going to start a war like the type of war that could come out of this, then it might as well be for the damn right reasons.
And who would have guessed, most of the reasons being thrown against Iran are plain stupid and ignorant, especially if you look at how most people see Iran in places like ATS, with a lot of emotional responses.
I think most arguments could end in a good debate and exchange of ideas, but the emotional part doesn't allow people to see it clearly. I'm neither american, nor israeli, nor iranian. I'm sort of "in the middle".
reply posted on 10-2-2012 @ 08:47 AM by Tifozi
reply to post by will615
Hate isn't a human "condition" exclusive to Israel.
The Greeks and Turkish also hate each-other guts. So do many other people around the world. That is not an excuse for anything.
But, having that said, I do believe and see the right for Israel to defend itself. I just think they are doing it the wrong way, since they cause more problems than solve them.
Yes, most of them are.
Using the example of the "closing the Straight of Hormuz" threat, Iran only made that threat, and said they will do it, IF the sanctions purposed by the U.S. come into effect.
Care to imagine what wouldn't exist if the U.S. and allies haven't started messing with Iran?
When people bring that up, I just can't help but to think of all the extremist that exist within U.S. borders, as in, american citizens.
Stupidity, extremist vies and the rest of the bunch exist everywhere in the world. Not only in Iran, not only in the U.S., but all over the world.
The matter of fact is that people know countries like the U.S. a lot better than they know countries like Iran. Nobody is going to question wether or not the U.S. government is able to get past the extremist views within it's own country, because we know better.
Why can't people see thing's the same way with Iran? It's not like Iran is starting wars whenever they can. They actually showed restrain in a lot of occasions. All the times they tried to be brave, they got "owned", and that made them realize they can't be that way, so they calmed down. A lot.
Iran leader's saying that type of crap has the same weight as american presidents saying "In God we trust". People are just so brainwashed that they see Iran as a pure evil country. It isn't.
Their main export is hand-made rugs ffs... (I think they just reported 450millions in profit for selling those).
A government can't show weakness to it's people. That also happens in the U.S. . I totally agree with you on that.
Although we disagree on details, I think we both agree on the larger picture. That whole region should be kept alone and in peace, literally.
I think that if we allowed them to fight each-other economically instead of promoting conflicts, thing's would be a lot better.
If you look at the reasons behind most of the conflicts, it's hatred generated from past conflicts. It's a never ending loop.
Israel has been hated since their birth! And who' painting them as innocent? I'm not.
Hate isn't a human "condition" exclusive to Israel.
The Greeks and Turkish also hate each-other guts. So do many other people around the world. That is not an excuse for anything.
But, having that said, I do believe and see the right for Israel to defend itself. I just think they are doing it the wrong way, since they cause more problems than solve them.
Iran's threats are defensive?
Yes, most of them are.
Using the example of the "closing the Straight of Hormuz" threat, Iran only made that threat, and said they will do it, IF the sanctions purposed by the U.S. come into effect.
Care to imagine what wouldn't exist if the U.S. and allies haven't started messing with Iran?
Is that why their leader wants to bring about the 12th Iman?
When people bring that up, I just can't help but to think of all the extremist that exist within U.S. borders, as in, american citizens.
Stupidity, extremist vies and the rest of the bunch exist everywhere in the world. Not only in Iran, not only in the U.S., but all over the world.
The matter of fact is that people know countries like the U.S. a lot better than they know countries like Iran. Nobody is going to question wether or not the U.S. government is able to get past the extremist views within it's own country, because we know better.
Why can't people see thing's the same way with Iran? It's not like Iran is starting wars whenever they can. They actually showed restrain in a lot of occasions. All the times they tried to be brave, they got "owned", and that made them realize they can't be that way, so they calmed down. A lot.
Iran leader's saying that type of crap has the same weight as american presidents saying "In God we trust". People are just so brainwashed that they see Iran as a pure evil country. It isn't.
Their main export is hand-made rugs ffs... (I think they just reported 450millions in profit for selling those).
Agreed that the people of Iran probably should feel defensive, but it's their government that's offensive just like here in the U.S.
A government can't show weakness to it's people. That also happens in the U.S. . I totally agree with you on that.
Someone should put the U.S. on a leash and keep it that way! It's us that keep destabilizing the whole region because we can't keep our nose out of everyone's business.
People really do need to get a better perspective on things.
Although we disagree on details, I think we both agree on the larger picture. That whole region should be kept alone and in peace, literally.
I think that if we allowed them to fight each-other economically instead of promoting conflicts, thing's would be a lot better.
If you look at the reasons behind most of the conflicts, it's hatred generated from past conflicts. It's a never ending loop.
reply posted on 10-2-2012 @ 09:03 AM by Tifozi
reply to post by isaac7777
Like I said in a previous post, extremism exists everywhere in the world. People just accept it if it's masked in another ways. The U.S. does that brilliantly may I add.
And it's not only Iran threatening Israel. Or haven't you seen the amount of times Israel tries to promote a conflict with Iran, just out of pure fear? They want to get rid of each-other, not Iran against Israel, not Israel against Iran.
It should be our (western countries that are more stable) responsibility to teach them how to behave and calm down. Instead, we isolated ourselves from Iran, and we are left with no options but to "help" Israel. That is a destabilizing attitude that could bring serious consequences.
No, it's ignorant to think that Iran, a country who is actively promoting it's own economy and making reforms looking into the future, is going to piss all that away by crapping a nuclear bomb in Israel that could end in their own death.
Survival instincts exist in every single human that lives. Iran will not risk it's land over this. If they actually nuke anyone, that responsibility is on the hands of countries like the U.S. for pushing them into a corner. EXACTLY like they are doing AS WE SPEAK.
Everyone tries everything. Sanctions, rhetoric, threats... All hostile attitudes. Has anyone ever tried the most peaceful resolutions? They don't have to love each-other, just co-exist.
If mortal enemies within europe learned to live with each-other after conflicts like World War, with different cultures involved, with deep nationalistic feeling involved... Why aren't we trying to teach them how to succeed in living in peace?
People fail to even see this reality. And it shocks me.
All people want is to find excuses for the next mass murder in wars.
Israel, by it's own definition and reason to exist, promotes that sort of thing. PERIOD. People need to accept that and work something out, and the matter of fact is, Israel hasn't really tried to get adapted to the region. They just try to be an isolated western island in the middle of that region.
As long as we try to mask things with delusional arguments, we are NEVER going to find peace. Never.
In case you don't know, Iran (example) has a space program. It launches it's own satellites.
Pretty stone age, eh?
Not "they". "We"... WE are always at war, because we don't know better. The location and arguments for conflict just change depending on the culture.
Look at Eastern Europe and what's going on in there. We went into Kosovo, "solved it", and now they are starting to throw rocks at each-other.
People fight as long as they feel they are being hurt.
Mossad is elite. Their armed forces are as trained as any other country. Specialized in some areas due to their constant combat status and constant military operations, but they aren't above many other countries.
And for the money they receive from the U.S., they might as well be good at war. Otherwise, why would the U.S. be funding them?
First off, Iran has stated time and time again that they want to get rid of Israel, and we all know their goal of bringing on Armageddon and the 12th imam.
Like I said in a previous post, extremism exists everywhere in the world. People just accept it if it's masked in another ways. The U.S. does that brilliantly may I add.
And it's not only Iran threatening Israel. Or haven't you seen the amount of times Israel tries to promote a conflict with Iran, just out of pure fear? They want to get rid of each-other, not Iran against Israel, not Israel against Iran.
It should be our (western countries that are more stable) responsibility to teach them how to behave and calm down. Instead, we isolated ourselves from Iran, and we are left with no options but to "help" Israel. That is a destabilizing attitude that could bring serious consequences.
Its ignorant to think otherwise, and ignorant to think that their nuclear goals, even with all the secrecy, is peaceful.
No, it's ignorant to think that Iran, a country who is actively promoting it's own economy and making reforms looking into the future, is going to piss all that away by crapping a nuclear bomb in Israel that could end in their own death.
Survival instincts exist in every single human that lives. Iran will not risk it's land over this. If they actually nuke anyone, that responsibility is on the hands of countries like the U.S. for pushing them into a corner. EXACTLY like they are doing AS WE SPEAK.
Everyone tries everything. Sanctions, rhetoric, threats... All hostile attitudes. Has anyone ever tried the most peaceful resolutions? They don't have to love each-other, just co-exist.
If mortal enemies within europe learned to live with each-other after conflicts like World War, with different cultures involved, with deep nationalistic feeling involved... Why aren't we trying to teach them how to succeed in living in peace?
People fail to even see this reality. And it shocks me.
All people want is to find excuses for the next mass murder in wars.
If your existence was threatened daily, youd be in a constant state of war and self defense, as Israel is.
Israel, by it's own definition and reason to exist, promotes that sort of thing. PERIOD. People need to accept that and work something out, and the matter of fact is, Israel hasn't really tried to get adapted to the region. They just try to be an isolated western island in the middle of that region.
As long as we try to mask things with delusional arguments, we are NEVER going to find peace. Never.
Not because of itself, but because of the violent, stone age philosophy countries surrounding them.
In case you don't know, Iran (example) has a space program. It launches it's own satellites.
Pretty stone age, eh?
If Israel wasnt there, theyd be fighting amongst themselves.
Not "they". "We"... WE are always at war, because we don't know better. The location and arguments for conflict just change depending on the culture.
Look at Eastern Europe and what's going on in there. We went into Kosovo, "solved it", and now they are starting to throw rocks at each-other.
People fight as long as they feel they are being hurt.
And to that accusation that Israel is cowardly and needs the help of the U.S...hop off the 'Israel is weak without America' bandwagon. Its not true. Theyre military is elite, and is only behind larger countries. They only lack in numbers, but they excel in skill and technology. I also believe they dont want us to get involved anymore. They can handle this war themselves, and they will.
Mossad is elite. Their armed forces are as trained as any other country. Specialized in some areas due to their constant combat status and constant military operations, but they aren't above many other countries.
And for the money they receive from the U.S., they might as well be good at war. Otherwise, why would the U.S. be funding them?
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