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Originally posted by nineixOf course, I see now, in a world filled with humans who have a nasty disposition for power, control, wealth beyond their needs, and needs beyond sensibility, that Communism, or Socialism as beautiful as the ideas are, won't work on National scales.
Originally posted by dadgad
I would like to quote some passages about this incredible period called the Spanish Revolution, the true workers revolution, the anarchist and libertarian socialist uprising.
Also I want people to understand that Ron Paul is a crook for stealing the term Libertarian and turn it into a capitalist thing.
In Spain during almost three years, despite a civil war that took a million lives, despite the opposition of the political parties (republicans, left and right Catalan separatists, socialists, Communists, Basque and Valencian regionalists, petty bourgeoisie, etc.), this idea of libertarian communism was put into effect. Very quickly more than 60% of the land was collectively cultivated by the peasants themselves, without landlords, without bosses, and without instituting capitalist competition to spur production. In almost all the industries, factories, mills, workshops, transportation services, public services, and utilities, the rank and file workers, their revolutionary committees, and their syndicates reorganized and administered production, distribution, and public services without capitalists, high salaried managers, or the authority of the state.
Even more: the various agrarian and industrial collectives immediately instituted economic equality in accordance with the essential principle of communism, 'From each according to his ability and to each according to his needs.' They coordinated their efforts through free association in whole regions, created new wealth, increased production (especially in agriculture), built more schools, and bettered public services. They instituted not bourgeois formal democracy but genuine grass roots functional libertarian democracy, where each individual participated directly in the revolutionary reorganization of social life. They replaced the war between men, 'survival of the fittest,' by the universal practice of mutual aid, and replaced rivalry by the principle of solidarity....
This experience, in which about eight million people directly or indirectly participated, opened a new way of life to those who sought an alternative to anti-social capitalism on the one hand, and totalitarian state bogus socialism on the other.
I had dropped more or less by chance into the only community of any size in Western Europe where political consciousness and disbelief in capitalism were more normal than their opposites. Up here in Aragon one was among tens of thousands of people, mainly though not entirely of working-class origin, all living at the same level and mingling on terms of equality. In theory it was perfect equality, and even in practice it was not far from it. There is a sense in which it would be true to say that one was experiencing a foretaste of Socialism, by which I mean that the prevailing mental atmosphere was that of Socialism. Many of the normal motives of civilized life—snobbishness, money-grubbing, fear of the boss, etc.—had simply ceased to exist. The ordinary class-division of society had disappeared to an extent that is almost unthinkable in the money-tainted air of England; there was no one there except the peasants and ourselves, and no one owned anyone else as his master.
That was socialism.edit on 9-2-2012 by dadgad because: (no reason given)
Voluntary Cooperatives, Small Community organizations, and Collective effort businesses, however, so long as there are definitive mechanisms to prevent parties or personalities from becoming MORE EQUAL than equal, I think could work.
These could be done inside a Capitalist system, where a business founds itself on these principles of Socialism, or Communism where all the workers, up to and including the President, Board Members, CEO, Management, middle management, on down to the common worker, essentially get the same wage.
Unfortunately, I don't think there's a one business that operates on anything close to such a foundation where everyone contributing and working shares in the returns of said business.
It could happen, but, as cool as that would be, I doubt anyone driving any successful business would ever keep such a system for long once that old familiar human condition of greed starts setting in. Sad.
My two cents.
edit on 9-2-2012 by nineix because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by cody599
The best example of socialism was (and I stress the WAS ) kibbutzism in Israel. I lived on a kibbutz for 10 years and tell I you that it was those that love to work for the greater good carrying leaches that found an easy life. The kibbutz movement has imploded and although they still call themselves kibbutz they now have differential wages and the original ideals are long defunked. Unfortnately socialism simply has no allowance for human nature and therefore cannot exist for long.
Originally posted by calnorak
I really want to read all your thread can you make the larger words a little bit smaller so they don't jumble on top of one another please?
Originally posted by Mijamija
Okay, help me out here, cause I am trying to imagine and apply how such a business would work....
Socialism is workers' control over the means of production
Meaning that a group of people get together, pool their resources and work together to create a business and then run the business with a hierarchy of bosses and workers, but they all share equally in profits?
The bosses handle the paperwork/management and the workers carry out the day to day business operations and they work in harmony to create the best product or service together because they know the better they work together the more profit they stand to make?
I just want to make sure I am understanding this correctly....If I am going too far off topic, disregard my post, I am not trying to wreck the thread!!!