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Cern recognizes LENR (low energy nuclear reactions)

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posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by pteridine


Without Rossi, this would be languishing in limbo. If this was aimed only at revenue, he would have accepted investor cash. He doesn't. As it is, he asks that money be put in escrow until the customer sees that the device meets expectations. If it meets specs, he gets the money and the customer then purchases a license to manufacture.
Watch Defkalion. THey have it also and will demo it fairly soon.

Rossi has been the key to get this out of the lab.


 


Rossi will be the key to discrediting alternative ideas on energy. That's it.

You are thinking about Defkalion when you speak about the escrow account (if it ever existed?). I was referring to AmpEnergo, which was supposed to be his American customer.


Ampenergo has paid Andrea Rossi for these rights (an undisclosed amount), and in return they will receive a share of all royalties from the sale of E-Cat licenses and products in the Americas.


Source

AmpEnergo




posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by pteridine


There is too much energy coming out for this to be a chemical reaction. As this progresses, more evidence will be made publically available.

 


Legitimate LENR studies do not show massive excess energy. So far the only people to claim such things are either trying to sell something, or creating marketing campaigns because they are about to try.

And by selling something, I also mean hand outstretch for investor funds.




edit on 9-2-2012 by boncho because: Mod note: I know I put "This isn't a thread about Rossi" in my OP. However, he is directly tied into LENR research right now, and my sarcastic nature knew he would be brought up. However, I don't feel it is off topic. No need to delete posts referencing him. Thanks.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by pteridine


There is too much energy coming out for this to be a chemical reaction. As this progresses, more evidence will be made publically available.

 


Legitimate LENR studies do not show massive excess energy. So far the only people to claim such things are either trying to sell something, or creating marketing campaigns because they are about to try.

And by selling something, I also mean hand outstretch for investor funds.


So you define "legitimate LENR studies" as those that do not show massive excess energy. Does that mean that if LENR studies do show massive excess energy, they are not legitimate? By your definition, LENR must only produce less than massive excess energy. You seem to have come to a conclusion that is not justified but will allow you the comfort of minimal disruption of your beliefs.
It would be instructive for you to define "massive excess energy" so your position is understood.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by pteridine
 


The only people to claim massive excess energy have no verified studies.

Zip. Zilch. Nada.

No peer review, no nothing.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by pteridine
 


The only people to claim massive excess energy have no verified studies.

Zip. Zilch. Nada.

No peer review, no nothing.


Do you think that that may be because it might have commercial value? You still didn't define "massive excess energy."



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 04:07 PM
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Maybe I should have researched a bit deeper and Rossi looks, walks and quacks like a duck but is there any evidence that the tests results by Bologna Uni are untrue?

The tests are so simple and the claimed power gains so high that there is little chance of experimental error.

The same goes for Blacklight Power, with similar tech.

Has anyone researched these techs? The scientific world has seemed a bit too quiet regarding these effects up till now so it is good to see CERN scientists having a get together. I would hope some progress has been made to explain and improve upon these effects in 20 odd years since their discovery.

Sorry for mentioning Rossi again



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by EasyPleaseMe


Maybe I should have researched a bit deeper and Rossi looks, walks and quacks like a duck but is there any evidence that the tests results by Bologna Uni are untrue?

 


Well, here is the thing. Bologna never did its own independent tests. Rossi was renting space from the university and paying for it out of pocket.

Recently, they kicked him out:


The Department of Physics, University of Bologna says that the contract signed in June 2011 between the Department of Physics and the EFA Ltd. (the company owned by Italian Andrea Rossi) was terminated due to failure to meet the conditions of the terms.


The Dept. of Physics at the Uni, has offered to do (independent?) tests.


However, the Department of Physics has made ​​available its experience and its equipment to carry out independent measurements on the production of heat by the equipment’s e-cat in order to provide an answer to the entire scientific community and the general public about the phenomenon. The measurement results will be published.


I suppose we will have to wait for that one.

Link

Independent measurements, would be fine if they are calibrating and requiring proper testing equipment. If this is another test where someone gets to look at Rossi's equipment from the bleachers I don't think it will satisfy anyone.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by boncho
 


Thanks for the reply. I guess that tests such as Link are either fake or not officially sanctioned by the university?

Whats the highest COP results you have seen from a reputable source?



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by EasyPleaseMe
reply to post by boncho
 


Thanks for the reply. I guess that tests such as Link are either fake or not officially sanctioned by the university?

Whats the highest COP results you have seen from a reputable source?


That wasn't really a test, more than a dog an pony show like most of Rossi's releases. You will notice in that 'paper' that Levi did the testing and they hired someone from the university only to calculate radiation:


On 14/01/11 at the GM System plant of Via dell'Elettricista 16 in Bologna, I performed radiation field measurements for radiation protection purposes as per your request of 09/11/10.

The field evaluation can not relate to criteria of functionality of the system and can not
be used for comparison in systems different from this one, in the process, in the geometry
or in the construction materials used


And most importantly:


The process, the geometry and the materials used for the production of energy inside the “Energy Amplifier” are unknowns that I'm not aware of.


He has no idea how the system works, he was simply doing his job to measure radiation.

Source from your link.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 06:59 PM
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Originally posted by pteridine
There is too much energy coming out for this to be a chemical reaction.
I've seen no evidence for this.

Have you got some?



posted on Feb, 10 2012 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by boncho
That wasn't really a test, more than a dog an pony show like most of Rossi's releases. You will notice in that 'paper' that Levi did the testing and they hired someone from the university only to calculate radiation:


I agree, the test in no way proves anything but isnt Levi also from the University?

I suppose Levi could hide behind the "I just tested a black box to see if it warranted further testing" excuse.

Back on topic, with NASA and CERN et al still calling these nickel hydrogen experiments 'LENR' there must be good evidence of some sort of nuclear reaction taking place.



posted on Feb, 10 2012 @ 06:49 PM
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No nuclear anything was detected. To me that's pretty clear that there are no nuclear reactions of substantial magnitude occurring, and thus any heat purported to be measured may be fraught with substantial experimental invalidity or missing assumptions. Remember that Ni+H is a well known battery.

Excess heat alone is not sufficient in this case, only excess work. Because a heat pump exhibits excess heat production above input electrical power.

Given many watts of supposed energy production, if there were nuclear reactions then the flux (even if major decay modes are magically suppressed) would be enormously above background.
edit on 10-2-2012 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2012 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by EasyPleaseMe

Originally posted by boncho
That wasn't really a test, more than a dog an pony show like most of Rossi's releases. You will notice in that 'paper' that Levi did the testing and they hired someone from the university only to calculate radiation:


I agree, the test in no way proves anything but isnt Levi also from the University?

I suppose Levi could hide behind the "I just tested a black box to see if it warranted further testing" excuse.

Back on topic, with NASA and CERN et al still calling these nickel hydrogen experiments 'LENR' there must be good evidence of some sort of nuclear reaction taking place.


Here



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 05:05 AM
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reply to post by mbkennel
 


Sorry you misunderstood me, I was talking about these experiments in general rather than the supposed radiation test of the Rossi device, which according to the University, if the press release is real, didnt happen.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 07:22 AM
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The latest article by Krivit shows a possible investor scam scheme by Rossi.
newenergytimes.com...

You make a few demonstrations with some scientists attending as passive observers to get public interest. Then you contact universities and state institutions(NASA) to confirm the claims. But your true incentive is to bait investors with the contracts. Later you back down from the contracts quietly still living from the contract fame.

Further speculation by me:

To keep your investors interested you "sell" a working device to a secret customer ideally with some rumors about military involvement to make it sound credible.

As the time passes investors might get nervous and money running out. You have to make more fantastic claims. You report about immediate commercialization, mass production, 100k preorders and a ridiculously low product price of 600$.

How long could someone run such a scam (hypothetically) as there would be a lot of money involved I think?



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by pteridine

The thread may not be about Rossi, but Rossi is the person who precipitated the interest. The world had a periodic table to select from and Rossi narrowed the field to Ni and H, for starters.


You do realize that the Widom-Larsen model came out before Rossi, and uses actual physics, whereas Rossi uses Rossi Physics. The reason people are interested in LENR is because of the Widom-Larsen model.



The ECats will be shown to work as will the Defkalion units. NRL has been investigating this since 1989 and knows that there is an effect.
The hot fusion boys are still pretending that there are instrumental errors and that this is 'pseudoscience' in the hope that it will go away. Richard Garwin, Nathan Lewis, and other egomaniacs had better prepare to spin their earlier comments so that they can claim that they, too, knew that there was an effect and that it should be investigated.


LENR is a category, not a model of a process. The Widom-Larsen model is studied because calculations show that it could work. Widom-Larsen doesn't need a special type of nonexisting physics to work.

edit on 11-2-2012 by aaa2500 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by aaa2500

Originally posted by pteridine

The thread may not be about Rossi, but Rossi is the person who precipitated the interest. The world had a periodic table to select from and Rossi narrowed the field to Ni and H, for starters.


You do realize that the Widom-Larsen model came out before Rossi, and uses actual physics, whereas Rossi uses Rossi Physics. The reason people are interested in LENR is because of the Widom-Larsen model.



The ECats will be shown to work as will the Defkalion units. NRL has been investigating this since 1989 and knows that there is an effect.
The hot fusion boys are still pretending that there are instrumental errors and that this is 'pseudoscience' in the hope that it will go away. Richard Garwin, Nathan Lewis, and other egomaniacs had better prepare to spin their earlier comments so that they can claim that they, too, knew that there was an effect and that it should be investigated.


LENR is a category, not a model of a process. The Widom-Larsen model is studied because calculations show that it could work. Widom-Larsen doesn't need a special type of nonexisting physics to work.


The W-L model is just that. It may or may not describe the phenomenon. People are not at all interested in LENR because of a theoretical model, they are interested in it because it is an energy source. This interest was generated because of the heat from D2-Pd systems and not because of an armchair physics theory. LENR is a category but there aren't many examples of it that can be tested, so I mentioned those that could. Rossi is less interested in the "why" and more interested in the "how" and doesn't really care what theory explains the effect.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by boncho
 





*Note, this thread is not about Rossi.


Priceless


So even you finally concede, as long as you don´t have to mention Rossi



posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by EasyPleaseMe
reply to post by mbkennel
 


Sorry you misunderstood me, I was talking about these experiments in general rather than the supposed radiation test of the Rossi device, which according to the University, if the press release is real, didnt happen.


What I think

a) there may be some setups which produce nuclear reactions of an exotic form (LENR)
b) there is no evidence such setups are producing macroscopic amounts of useful energy from them
c) Rossi's setup has no nuclear reactions or excess work at all, it's a scam.



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by mbkennel
What I think

a) there may be some setups which produce nuclear reactions of an exotic form (LENR)
b) there is no evidence such setups are producing macroscopic amounts of useful energy from them
c) Rossi's setup has no nuclear reactions or excess work at all, it's a scam.


a) From the latest information that is probably the case and is very interesting
b) Yes there is a difference between excess and useful excess.
c) It certainly looks that way with about 99.9% confidence. I'm still puzzled by the involvement / non involvement of the Uni of Bologna staff. I just wish everyone was honest.




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