"Gay Marriage" apparently not all it was cracked up to be

reply to post by IanPaul


I have read that member's posts in this thread and come to that simple conclusion on my own that they think I am less then them.

If you like I will provide quotes as examples.

Would this be "news" if a Straight man said Marriage is not all it was cracked up to be?

... I think this is what you call a rhetorical question.

If marriage is sacred why can it be done at drive through chapels?
And why are there so many divorces?
I'm looking forward to the day when my great grand kids have to argue if they can
marry aliens or not.
Or if they can marry a robot.
If you clone yourself and give the clone a sex change will you be allowed to marry he/she/it?

The Gay marriage argument will one day be looked upon as the "good old" days when things were
simple.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Lapislazuli
The sanctity of marriage is ruined every day by people like her, not Gay people. People act as if the word "Marriage" is so sacred, and has not already been defiled. Look around yourselves and hopefully you can realize a homosexual man being "married" would not have an iota of an effect on you. Live and Let Live.

The sanctity of marriage is such a crap argument.

Ever read the history of marriage? It is NOT a pretty picture. Women were property - - bought/sold/bartered for various reasons.

If you look at some of the mideast - - you get a picture of what marriage used to be for all women.

Even in my own lifetime - - women here in America had very little rights in a marriage.

Sanctity my Butt!

Thank you Phoenix. Marriage has ALWAYS been a business arrangement and has ALWAYS benefitted the man more. But religion and society has people so brainwashed so as not to be able to see the forest through the trees.

It's sad really.

Originally posted by IanPaul

Originally posted by Garfee
reply to post by IanPaul

 

Why should I be respectful to someone who assume I am less than them?

If you do not show respect for me, it is not reciprocated and yet you still expect it and call think I'm rude for not extending it.

Duhh. Probably because you believe in jebus and have false some sense of entitlement.

Where has he said he thinks he is more than you? Can you quote him saying it?! Look I can call you crazy for having your viewpoints but that gets the conversation no where. Respect is being shown by honesty... Wouldn't it be disrespectful for someone to lie just to appease someone else? I believe so. Anyone can call you crazy for any of your beliefs but to what benefit? I think calling names puts you above someone else... Kind of hypocritical dontchya think?

I think you need to use the alert button, mind your own business and stop derailing the thread.

No-one's appointed you to moderate.

Don't like how one member speaks to another? USE THE ALERT BUTTON AND STOP SPAMMING THE THREAD!

Have absolutely nothing useful or relevant to contributed to the debate at hand? MOVE ON!!!

@Garfee: I don't think you need to specifically quote the member in question to convince any of us that any individual who believes that another is against their God indeed believes that the offender is lesser. The logical premise is basic. IanPaul's request for you to elucidate is as redundant as having to qualify that the grass is green. We all know it regardless.

reply to post by Garfee


Feel free.

Again my problem with all of this is the fact that we "adults" can't seem to carry on a respectable debate about a touchy subject. Telling someone to shut up, or crazy, or any other slanderous word is childish everything being written on these forums are words on a computer screen (or phone like me), no one on here gets a complete view of each other, yet we pretend that these words sum a person up. I'm willing to bet that every single one of us has a friend or someone we would call buddy that has an opinion that goes completely against our own thinking, yet we're ok with that? Why because we know them? But some stranger posts their opinion and all of a sudden you KNOW who they are and what they're about.. Seriously people need to take their "all knowing" cap off and hang with the facts of reality; one of which being that you don't know someone from a few comments on a topic.

reply to post by 3danimator


I never said I hated the gay/homosexual people. And dont be mistaken with my beliefs for christianity, because I dont believe that nonsense. You assume things you dont understand. The problem is, too many people now are just letting everything loose. Nobody wants to stand up for whats right, but instead dont want to 'invade' other people's privacy or beliefs or what have you.

Keeping a good morality in life is how we keep order. If we all eventually just allow all things to happen, there will be chaos. Putting aside religous beliefs, those who are gay will affect me and everyone I dont care what people say. I dont treat them with hate, but I do know what they are doing is wrong. Those who are homosexual tend to have more partners, spreading more disease, and bringing down morality of this world.

Let me think of an example........
If someone you work with, was a known thief who stole money from other companies through forgery, lying or whatever, asked you to borrow money from you using your debit card, giving him your pin number for an emergency cause he really needed it? Would you treat him differenty compared to your best friend asking you for money in an emergency?Would you treat him the same even though you know he steals money from others?.......

I have had a guy at my work give me their debit card, and their pin to go to the liquor store for them cause they were just to lazy when we were out of town for work. They trusted me not to steal anything or do something stupid with it. I was shocked they even did that, and was asking them "are you sure you trust me with your pin number and debit card". They did because I wasnt a known person to do such things. But your telling me what they do or have done doesnt affect your judgment of how to react to them?

Or how bout this example.....
You recently found out your one brother is sleeping with another woman, and he is married with 1 child. You overheard this one day when he was talking on his cellphone, dont ask how its an example. Now you meet him again with his wife, saying everything is great the wife is happy, the little girl is happy and things are well with them. Yet, you think you wouldnt say something about it, because his lifestyle wouldnt affect your morals? You wouldnt want to invade their privacy? Who is the one being used here, the mother or the child? Who is the one suffering from this? Would you just let it be, and let his wife with a child continue in ignorance knowing he is sleeping with another woman? But you wont say "Brother! You are doing something very wrong by being with another woman, ignoring your wife and little one, you must stop this". Are you saying dont get involved its none of your business?

The way people are, WILL affect my decisions and how I react to them. I will treat everyone with no partiality. They all get the same treatment, if it be my dad or a stranger. If they are doing something wrong, they will hear about it. And if someone is gay/homosexual, they will know that I am against it. I will not force them to change, but they will know my choice, and I will choose my actions accordingly to show I do not agree with their lifestyle. My lifestyle will not conform to what people believe is right, it will conform to what my Heavenly Father Yahuwah says. That is the standard, it will never change.

Originally posted by rexusdiablos

Originally posted by IanPaul

Originally posted by Garfee
reply to post by IanPaul

 

Why should I be respectful to someone who assume I am less than them?

If you do not show respect for me, it is not reciprocated and yet you still expect it and call think I'm rude for not extending it.

Duhh. Probably because you believe in jebus and have false some sense of entitlement.

Where has he said he thinks he is more than you? Can you quote him saying it?! Look I can call you crazy for having your viewpoints but that gets the conversation no where. Respect is being shown by honesty... Wouldn't it be disrespectful for someone to lie just to appease someone else? I believe so. Anyone can call you crazy for any of your beliefs but to what benefit? I think calling names puts you above someone else... Kind of hypocritical dontchya think?

I think you need to use the alert button, mind your own business and stop derailing the thread.

No-one's appointed you to moderate.

Don't like how one member speaks to another? USE THE ALERT BUTTON AND STOP SPAMMING THE THREAD!

Have absolutely nothing useful or relevant to contributed to the debate at hand? MOVE ON!!!

@Garfee: I don't think you need to specifically quote the member in question to convince any of us that any individual who believes that another is against their God indeed believes that the offender is lesser. The logical premise is basic. IanPaul's request for you to elucidate is as redundant as having to qualify that the grass is green. We all know it regardless.

Haha ok moderator. My opinion is just as valid as yours sir. You're now simply derailing the topic. Isn't the civility of a discussion at hand relevant? In fact my point is related completely, and aims to keep this stuff ON topic, can't you see that? Instead try to belittle me because I believe an important topic should stay respectful, so we can get to the real meat of each others viewpoints on the TOPIC OF THE THREAD.

Peace!

reply to post by IanPaul


Thanks for your input. Where I come from it's considered colloquialism and hardly offensive.

I apologise to the thread for allowing this member to make mine offtopic.

I think marriage in general should be banned. I've come to the conclusion that it is just slavery and that it benefits just one group of people ... divorce lawyers.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

I have yet to meet or hear about a gay couple who weren't having sex with other people on the side. It seems to be in their nature??? but then again I could probably say the same thing about heterosexual couples, it is just they hide it better.

I think there may actually be a bit of a conspiracy here with this whole "I just don't want them to use the term 'marriage'" thing - let me explain. I currently live in Spain, and a few years ago, in 2005 to be exact, they finally legalized gay marriage here (hard to believe Spain is more morally advanced in this aspect then the US, eh?). I don't remember when it started exactly, but sometime in the year or so leading up to that there started to be talk, mostly from right-leaning conservative types, but not exclusively, about them only really having a problem with the term "matrimonio", which is of course literally the translation of "marriage" in Spanish. Other than that, they said, there was no problem, just the term, same as the OP stated here in this thread repeatedly.

Anyway, many people here on this thread have pointed to the basic ridiculousness of this premise, and it is ridiculous, for many reasons:

1. As someone said a few posts back, since when does anyone, with the exclusion of grammaticians and suchlike, give a crap about the misuse of a word??!! We screw up words and definitions ALL THE TIME and nobody cares.

2. I've yet to see any kind of proof that the term marriage, or matrimonio, or whatever it's called in the rest of the western countries, is defined anywhere important as being necessarily between man and woman. The bible isn't a legally binding document anywhere in N.A. or Europe. If the bible invented the word (and that's gonna be a tough argument to prove for anyone whose native language isn't Aramaic or Hebrew...), show me the proof that they invented it - and patented it. It sounds silly just asking for that, lol.

3. Dogs?! Dead people? Toasters?!!! I mean really....anyway, other posters have already shown that contractually they make no sense, apples and oranges, people, as they say....if people are apples, then dogs are oranges for example, and let's say women can be Golden Delicious apples and men can be Granny Smiths....still apples, still same species, I really can't believe anyone argues this lol. - and I "lol" with all due respect to your entitled opinion!

4. I could go on, but I'll get to the point about the possible conspiracy I see with this "marriage" term debate, which I've now personally experienced, word for word, in 5 different countries and three different languages (Canada, US, England, Spain and France, in English, French and Spanish), the EXACT SAME argument - and THAT is the conspiracy. It IS a silly argument, no matter how you look at it. I could think of several other arguments that would be more convincing and even slightly more reasonable, but that's exactly the point - all of a sudden we're spending all our time debating whether gay couples who tie the knot should be allowed to call their union a marriage! WhoTF cares!? That was not what they asked for, they were asking for equal civil rights, which happens to imply that they'd need to use a word from the dictionary to define the thing they wanted their civil rights for, and that word is of course "marriage". And if it's called GAY-marriage, that's adding a prefix to the word, it's already saying that it's not the exact same thing anyway...but I digress...

I guess the point I want to make is that this same argument is being used in diverse countries around the world (or the western world anyway as far as I've seen), despite the fact that anyone can see it's not even the right argument to use (not that I think there is a "right" argument personally...so....Who exactly has instilled this idea into people of a certain persuasion's heads? And in quite a few different countries to boot!? Maybe it's something as simple as the Vatican, I dunno, whoever it is, it's obviously a concerted effort to distract from the true discussion at hand, forcing us to talk about something else only partially related to the true topic, which is quite clearly simply a question of civil liberties, and certainly not semantics, I don't think the gays had any interest in a semantic or etymological discussion.

Hope that all made sense, I've had a couple tonight, hehe,

-internationalcriminal

Originally posted by musashi9
I have yet to meet or hear about a gay couple who weren't having sex with other people on the side.

You actively seek out gay couples to ask this of them or just relying on the two you know of?

reply to post by musashi9


The percentage of infidelity is probably actually a bit, or maybe even significantly higher in MALE gay couples, but not because they're gay, I think the true reason is obvious, if you don't get it ask any woman to explain it to you.

As for knowing any gay couples who are monogamous, I know more than a few, as I'm sure most people who know gay people do.

OK people, as i understand it, there are two purposes to marriage: love, and to produce children. As i understand it, no same sex couple has ever produced children. Im not anti gay or anything, but i believe this is...well the second part, is the main argument against gay marriage.
Oh, and another thing. while infedility/divorce rates between married couples makes for interesting debate, it is not really relevant to the issue of same sex marriage.

reply to post by Seektruthalways1


So Christianity is nonsense is it? What exactly is nonsense about it? the Christ part?

reply to post by markuz93

As you understand it, you say...Um, ok...sorry but, really who cares how YOU understand it, even if you're accompanied by quite a few others....where does it SAY that marriage means that?! It's as you understand it from your church, or your parents, or your peers (and they're never wrong are they?)...show me where it says that legally, constitutionally, contractually, anywhere relevant! Maybe it does in the US somewhere, I don't know, it doesn't anywhere I've ever lived...

ETA:

Sorry markuz93, maybe that seemed a bit confrontational...read my earlier post, I explained it better.

"Marriage" is for man + woman.

"Civil Union/Partnership" is for gay people.

Alot of gay people agree with that, it's really not that big of a deal. Elton John is an example of someone in a Civil Union. I have nothing against him, he's a nice guy with a big heart, I have all the respect in the world for him. With that being said, it doesn't mean I hate gay people, or that people against gay "marriage" are homophobes. (really?) We would prefer marriage as it were to be left alone, just as it was for thousands of years.

I really don't understand why some gay individuals feel they need to barge in and take over things, being provocative, rattling their sabre's, and causing a fuss. It's really quite disrespectful to be blunt. I would never trample on the beliefs and institutions of others, and I would expect the same respect in return.

If alien beings moved to planet Earth, and had a partnership ceremony called "Googlash", and they wanted to keep it between a Glok and Nanook, I would respect that. Of course gay people would come along and say "we want Googlash too!" Well to that I say: No gay people, you can't have Googlash! Sheesh!

Originally posted by Seektruthalways1

Keeping a good morality in life is how we keep order. If we all eventually just allow all things to happen, there will be chaos. Putting aside religous beliefs, those who are gay will affect me and everyone I dont care what people say. I dont treat them with hate, but I do know what they are doing is wrong. Those who are homosexual tend to have more partners, spreading more disease, and bringing down morality of this world.

There are plenty of gays who don't sleep around, I know a few. There are plenty of heterosexuals who sleep around a LOT, I know a few of those. Gays will only affect you if you are prejudiced against them.

Let me think of an example........
If someone you work with, was a known thief who stole money from other companies through forgery, lying or whatever, asked you to borrow money from you using your debit card, giving him your pin number for an emergency cause he really needed it? Would you treat him differenty compared to your best friend asking you for money in an emergency?Would you treat him the same even though you know he steals money from others?.......

Is this a gay thief or a heterosexual thief?

Or how bout this example.....
You recently found out your one brother is sleeping with another woman, and he is married with 1 child. You overheard this one day when he was talking on his cellphone, dont ask how its an example. Now you meet him again with his wife, saying everything is great the wife is happy, the little girl is happy and things are well with them. Yet, you think you wouldnt say something about it, because his lifestyle wouldnt affect your morals? You wouldnt want to invade their privacy? Who is the one being used here, the mother or the child? Who is the one suffering from this? Would you just let it be, and let his wife with a child continue in ignorance knowing he is sleeping with another woman? But you wont say "Brother! You are doing something very wrong by being with another woman, ignoring your wife and little one, you must stop this". Are you saying dont get involved its none of your business?

I KNOW this guy is heterosexual, not gay. That must mean ALL heterosexuals are cheaters and evil, right?

The way people are, WILL affect my decisions and how I react to them. I will treat everyone with no partiality. They all get the same treatment, if it be my dad or a stranger. If they are doing something wrong, they will hear about it. And if someone is gay/homosexual, they will know that I am against it. I will not force them to change, but they will know my choice, and I will choose my actions accordingly to show I do not agree with their lifestyle. My lifestyle will not conform to what people believe is right, it will conform to what my Heavenly Father Yahuwah says. That is the standard, it will never change.

You are in the minority. More and more people are becoming accepting of gays. Most people know that gays are not evil just because they are gay. There are so many gay people who are decent, kind, loving individuals, who hurt no one, and help those in need - and no god that I would ever believe in would condemn them. Thank goodness our country welcomes many different religions and religious beliefs (apparently some more tolerant than others), and no one religion rules this country.

reply to post by internationalcriminal


Well good gracious someones getting a little emotional....
Anyway its interesting that you brought up the church. Well that ties into an argument against it. It specifically says marriage is between a man and a women to produce offspring. I believe the reason it is not SPECIFICALLY stated in the Constitution is because, quite frankly, the founding fathers did not really think it was necessesary to define marriage.