"Gay Marriage" apparently not all it was cracked up to be

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


marriage is a legal thing. it is not required that a marriage be performed in a church, because it is a legal thing. it is a contract. as for the abrahamic religious parts of your posts :

" congress shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion" it doesn't matter if your religion isn't keen on gay marriage. it doesn't matter what you think about gay marriage. congress shall make no law. this is clear cut. since marriage is a legal thing, and not religious, religions of all kinds have no say over who is allowed to get married.

The "establishment of religion" clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the federal government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another.

establishment

the moment marriage became a legal contract, it gave up any rights it had as a religious thing.

reply to post by lost artistic


The Spanish Inquisition was cruel and brutal and persecuted anyone they deemed a heretic. But HowStuffWorks website says that the Spanish Inquisistion was set up and used by secular monarchy.

Although early Christians experienced heavy persecution, by the Middle Ages, the Catholic Church had significant religious and political power in Europe. To maintain its authority, the Church suppressed heretics. The Church had a very specific definition of heresy: A heretic publicly declared his beliefs (based upon what the Church considered inaccurate interpretations of the Bible) and refused to denounce them, even after being corrected by the authority. He also tried to teach his beliefs to other people. He had to be doing these things by his own free will, not under the influence of the devil.

The Spanish Inquisition was unique in that it was established by secular rulers, King Ferdinand II and Queen Isabella, with the approval of Pope Sixtus IV. The monarchy was Catholic, and it had just united two kingdoms, Aragon and Castile, as a single country in the late 15th century. Reasons for the Inquisition included a desire to create religious unity and weaken local political authorities and familial alliances. Money was another motive -- the government made a profit by confiscating the property of those found guilty of heresy. Historians speculate that the monarchy convinced Pope Sixtus IV to allow the inquisition by threatening to remove Spanish troops from Rome, where they were needed to prevent an attack by Turkey.

history.howstuffworks.com...

reply to post by EvanB
By that token, homosexuality can't possibly be what the bible was referring to when it says "if a man lay with a man as with a woman". The sex act, regardless of the type, makes one out of two. And it doesn't matter what you call it, or don't want to call it, it's a marriage. Grow up.

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by hoochymama

 

So, your argument is about the RIGHTS OF THE PEOPLE for tax purposes and legal rights. Who made up the Tax Code and the Legal Rights?? The Bible or the Country you live in

Huh????

Only issue i have is with the terminology. The title, the label.

Marriage = man + woman

I'm not a religious person. However I do think that religion deserves some respect in certain aspects of society.
Marriage was developed through the church and was a religious ceremony.

If gays get married, then can I marry my dog? Can I marry my blow up doll? Can I marry my computer?

Why should homosexual couples not be allowed to call it a marriage? Marriage can be defined as: a relationship in which two people have pledged themselves to each other
& also defined as: the simple and usual term, without implications as to circumstances and without emotional connotations: to announce the marriage of a daughter.

The fact that your so hooked up over the terminology of it is a little absurd. Seeing how God (or whatever divine being you believe in) created people who are homosexual just like he created heterosexual people so why then should the term marriage, developed through the church and was a religious ceremony, not be allowed for homosexuals? Why should they have to have their own term?

If gays get married, then can I marry my dog? Can I marry my blow up doll? Can I marry my computer?

Seriously? That is the most b.s statement people who are anti-gay marriage use. Why would marrying another human be the same as marrying an animal or an inanimate object?? Homosexuals are humans just like heterosexuals so saying that marrying an animal or inanimate object is the same thing as a homosexual marrying another homosexual is absurd & extremely illogical.

However I do think that religion deserves some respect in certain aspects of society.

I'd like to point out that religion and the stuff churches push are religion are different. Churches and their dogmatic ways have been holding society back for almost as long as churches have existed. Churches said that the Earth was in the center of the Universe and wanted to keep it that way & ostracized Galileo, look at how right they were with that. How many wars & how many people have died in the name of Church/God??

Originally posted by L00kingGlass
reply to post by lost artistic

 

Ok I promised myself not to get involved with these hot button topics, but I can't resist! (Please mod don't hurt me.)

But let me just say one last thing: I have a gay friend, and my sister is gay. I've had this conversation with them many times, and they don't seem to mind.

However after some thought, I decided that I'm wrong. They can do whatever they want, it doesn't affect me. Sometimes I find myself getting caught in the ways of social conservatives, and I strongly dislike their ways. It's very easy to get into that sort of mentality if we're not careful. It can make well meaning people turn into hypocritical controlling tyrants.

Marriage in general is not all it's cracked up to be. Straight people by percentage are probably worse at it these days. It's true. Sometimes I wonder if it's enough to just be loyal to that one person you care about and just try to live a good life. But again, just my opinion. I'm really starting to have doubts about alot of stuff the last few weeks.

My apologies if I had offended anyone.

edit on 9-2-2012 by L00kingGlass because: (no reason given)

Well, that was an awfully quick turnaround, but I'm glad to hear it!

BTW, here's an interesting little tidbit to clog the gears of your brain:

www.christianity-revealed.com...

If gays want equality, they should not launch a war of conquest on straight society. If gays want to be respected, they should not appropriate words and traditions that have been a part of straight society for millenia. If gays truly respected themselves, they would not want or need our words and traditions.

Gays are not capable of having the same relationships as straight people - gays have different kinds of relationships, based on a union of similarity not a union of difference. Gays are also incapable of childbearing for biological reasons, and they are incapable of childraising that meets the developmental needs of children. For these reasons, gays have no legitimate claim to straight words and traditions in their pursuit of equality - because by their very definition they are not equal - they are different. So why the same words and traditions? The only possible conclusion of why they wish to take straight culture for themselves by force is that they are trying to assert their identity. I say to gays, you have the same human rights, so be different and be happy... difference is beautiful.

Do I think gays should be persecuted and rejected in society? NO. But they do not need to be the 'same'.. it only drags everyone down including themselves, and I think if they did some soul searching, they'd see that too. They should be proud of their difference! Call off the battles for these words and traditions.

Only issue i have is with the terminology. The title, the label.

Marriage = man + woman

[snip]

If gays get married, then can I marry my dog? Can I marry my blow up doll? Can I marry my computer?

Easy. Make it: Marriage = two consenting adults. Freedom. Equality. That's America.


Problem solved; what'd I win?

Originally posted by SteveR

Gays [...] are incapable of childraising that meets the developmental needs of children.

Citation needed.

reply to post by SteveR


replace every instance of the word gay with blacks or asians. proceed to see how silly your post was.

reply to post by optimus primal


You are so far out of context you're in outer space. Blacks, asians and whites are equally capable of the same relationships.

What the hell difference does it make what it is called? If we really want to discuss things lets talk about all of the heterosexual people who have made a mockery of marriage.

Originally posted by SteveR
reply to post by optimus primal

 

You are so far out of context you're in outer space. Blacks, asians and whites are equally capable of the same relationships.

and yet for some reason you act like gays are a different species. or robots. incapable. right dude. right.

Originally posted by Rren

Originally posted by SteveR

Gays [...] are incapable of childraising that meets the developmental needs of children.

Citation needed.

No citation needed. No child needs the inherent confusion or twisted nature of 'two mommys' or 'two daddys'. It is an act of oblivious selfishness.

reply to post by knoledgeispower

Why should homosexual couples not be allowed to call it a marriage?

What does it matter what they call it? Why does it matter so much to them as long as they can have it? Perhaps they are not willing to make a modest compromise. After al, since they view their stuff as special, to be treated in a special manner with special classes dedicated to promote it as if they were an endangered species to be protected at all costs (by the State), then why do they insist it has to be called the same thing as a traditionally defined marriage?

Originally posted by SteveR
reply to post by optimus primal

 

You are so far out of context you're in outer space. Blacks, asians and whites are equally capable of the same relationships.

Optimus Primal is not out of context. You are out of order, as it is not your place to say that calling a union between two members of the same sex a marriage drags down the rest of us. If you can't see how bigoted that statement is, you need to do some more growing up before you try to have conversations with the adults.

Originally posted by SteveR
they are incapable of childraising that meets the developmental needs of children.

That is the most ignorant asinine thing I have ever seen in a long time. Look at the rate of screwed up kids turning into even worse adults who come from straight married couples. I have met better people who came from gay parents than I have straight. The straight folks (and yes I am one of them) have done a far worse job of screwing up children and this world than gays could ever do.

Originally posted by staver
BTW, here's an interesting little tidbit to clog the gears of your brain:

www.christianity-revealed.com...

Well, there ya go. Definitive proof that gays have just as much right to call their union a marriage as anyone else. Great link.

Originally posted by optimus primal
and yet for some reason you act like gays are a different species. or robots. incapable. right dude. right.

Homosexuality and hetrosexuality are fundamentally different concepts. Therefore they are incapable of the same relationships. Do you deny homosexual relationships are any different?

Originally posted by SteveR

Originally posted by optimus primal
and yet for some reason you act like gays are a different species. or robots. incapable. right dude. right.

Homosexuality and hetrosexuality are fundamentally different concepts. Therefore they are incapable of the same relationships. Do you deny homosexual relationships are any different?

Why are they different?

I don't get it.