reply to post by SLAYER69
Go into any coffee shop during a blizzard and you'll find that people are breaking down the boundaries of silence between strangers to discuss the
one thing they all have in common, namely how cold, how awful it is, how will we ever get out of here, will there be massive power failures, etc.
Does someone need a ride home.? In a disaster, barriers are thrown aside and people are prone to rush in to help without question, to bring in their
skills as well as knowledge and resources. Everyone is focused on the common problem, putting their particular scenario into the ring or onto the
back burner. So while fear may be present to a minor degree, a communal tactile grasp of the situation is unanimous. We cannot control the elements
but we all are subjected to them. We have all experienced this type of unity at some time or other.
On 9/11, the no-fly rule over the USA forced many planes to land in Gander, Newfoundland. Without further thought, Newfoundlanders from small towns
and villages shared all their resources from food, beds, linen, showers, and food to show hospitality to stranded strangers. Even after this time,
their lasting friendships will endure. One needed and the other stepped in to help. Altruism and peace.
Many of us feel powerless to help when it comes to creating peace under the cloud of impending conflict and war. People on opposite sides may talk,
but when they do, they bring with it their passions and self-righteous beliefs. In the above paragraphs, passions among the helpless are muted. In
our current situation, the forces threatening all of us with the end-time scenario are many, and their agendas are multiple. If we could only find
the means to suppress the passion, the inciteful talk and threats, then common sense might have a chance to step in and appeal to reason.
Perhaps an initial intervention should be to move them all to Greenland or the high Arctic for a while? As crazy as it sounds, with a different
perspective where their attention becomes focused on surviving the elements, they might actually talk to each other differently and find common
ground.
PEACE To attempt the impossible..., page 3
privacy
reply posted on 9-2-2012 @ 10:20 AM by Iamschist
reply to post by SLAYER69
My country is a reflection of each of us, of the people that make it up. If I take responsibility for myself, for making peace within and without, it shows in the actions of those around me and by extrapolation, my country. Does this mean I will be safe? That I won't be killed in my peaceful state by one who is still in turmoil? No, but it has to start somewhere and I cannot control anyone but me. Personal responsibility is me doing that.
How does lack of personal responsibility apply to lack of PEACE. Lack of ones country not taking responsibility for their actions?
My country is a reflection of each of us, of the people that make it up. If I take responsibility for myself, for making peace within and without, it shows in the actions of those around me and by extrapolation, my country. Does this mean I will be safe? That I won't be killed in my peaceful state by one who is still in turmoil? No, but it has to start somewhere and I cannot control anyone but me. Personal responsibility is me doing that.
reply posted on 9-2-2012 @ 10:43 AM by antar
reply to post by SLAYER69
If only the whole military industrial complex could see things in this type of enlightened way. Everything is geographical and bias as well as all judgements run deep, they are generational.
So how to change that? How to create an individual awareness that see's everything as a working whole?
Honestly I would love to be able to travel freely across this entire planet and feel the roots of each and every culture I encounter, but I would be killed or kidnapped for sure because of my National status.
If only the whole military industrial complex could see things in this type of enlightened way. Everything is geographical and bias as well as all judgements run deep, they are generational.
So how to change that? How to create an individual awareness that see's everything as a working whole?
Honestly I would love to be able to travel freely across this entire planet and feel the roots of each and every culture I encounter, but I would be killed or kidnapped for sure because of my National status.
edit on 9-2-2012 by antar because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 9-2-2012 @ 11:41 AM by anoncoholic
reply to post by ottobot
+S to you just for replying...I know it wasn't an easy post to respond to kindly.
I won't get too personal about my wife other than to say she is generous to a fault and many people love her on FB/MS etc. She was a business manager, good-looking, kind, loving, but her money management skills at home sucked. She doesn't pay attention to what I say/ask, had to bury a cat after cautioning her about coming into the driveway too fast where it liked to lie down.
That is one instance among many which never cease to cause me some form of grief.
My best friend here is her ex-husband who is now doing well, his home and car are paid for and he is the only person who knows where I am coming from.
I am not going to turn this thread into a wife expose' so suffice it to say no matter how much I gave her in $, or attention, or material, she is never content. Her psyche goes back to the way her father treated her (lack of presence) and I can't blame her for being the way she is but I do blame her for not listening to better judgment on matters.
If I say something and it then happens I can't say anything or its like an I told you so and that won't help either. "I can't do anything right"
So I say nothing now and we both basically go along to get along.
That isn't peace, its avoidance and the underlying issues will never go away.
Trust me on this though, it is my independent thought that assures the division. It wasn't bred of hearsay but living the life first-hand.
You are correct that warfare, even verbal is a path away from peace. That mental blockage is where mankind is at today.
You see, I can't be a better person than I am today, I don't love myself, I never think about myself... but I do think about how deeply other life affects me and if I had the affinity with mankind that I have with animals (who are better judges of character) then I even as a single voice could change the world with logic and reasoning but more importantly
Love and understanding of the human psyche.
Animals would come to me when I call them, even when in pain and crippled... that is a loving nature developed between us. A bond of trust that goes beyond feeding or talking to.
Why then does the one woman in my life not hear me?
I will tell you why, it is the same reason you replied... you felt challenged.
Isn't that indicative of the way the world is too?
We reap what we sow and if the ground is fertile we bear the fruit of our labor.
The question everyone should be asking is what do they inspire in others?
You see, I am a firm believer that we should all live up to our full potentials ... we are all each others greatest resource because I don't know what you could be inspired to nor inspire others to that could in turn inspire me to which is a snowball of inspiration in the area of the human psyche
If this world remains at odds with itself it will fail. Take all of the emotions felt by every human and put together is it any wonder why we are so dysfunctional?
just like my marriage, and if I can't resolve my marriage then how could I presume to be able to change the world?
Do you see my frustration here? I can't change you or a world in pain unless it wants to be changed and without trusting my judgment in being able to see the picture I am but a passing thought...
Knowing you could make the difference but not being listened to ... don't we all feel this way?
There is only one language that cuts across that barrier, the language of LOVE and that is the one word mankind resists because like mirrors, we all reflect the environment we live in.
the devil is winning.
I know many here (hell, everywhere) even deny there is a God but they confuse Religion with Spirituality. Religion was created by man to divide men. Spirituality is the unification of us all.
+S to you just for replying...I know it wasn't an easy post to respond to kindly.
I won't get too personal about my wife other than to say she is generous to a fault and many people love her on FB/MS etc. She was a business manager, good-looking, kind, loving, but her money management skills at home sucked. She doesn't pay attention to what I say/ask, had to bury a cat after cautioning her about coming into the driveway too fast where it liked to lie down.
That is one instance among many which never cease to cause me some form of grief.
My best friend here is her ex-husband who is now doing well, his home and car are paid for and he is the only person who knows where I am coming from.
I am not going to turn this thread into a wife expose' so suffice it to say no matter how much I gave her in $, or attention, or material, she is never content. Her psyche goes back to the way her father treated her (lack of presence) and I can't blame her for being the way she is but I do blame her for not listening to better judgment on matters.
If I say something and it then happens I can't say anything or its like an I told you so and that won't help either. "I can't do anything right"
So I say nothing now and we both basically go along to get along.
That isn't peace, its avoidance and the underlying issues will never go away.
Trust me on this though, it is my independent thought that assures the division. It wasn't bred of hearsay but living the life first-hand.
You are correct that warfare, even verbal is a path away from peace. That mental blockage is where mankind is at today.
You see, I can't be a better person than I am today, I don't love myself, I never think about myself... but I do think about how deeply other life affects me and if I had the affinity with mankind that I have with animals (who are better judges of character) then I even as a single voice could change the world with logic and reasoning but more importantly
Love and understanding of the human psyche.
Animals would come to me when I call them, even when in pain and crippled... that is a loving nature developed between us. A bond of trust that goes beyond feeding or talking to.
Why then does the one woman in my life not hear me?
I will tell you why, it is the same reason you replied... you felt challenged.
Isn't that indicative of the way the world is too?
We reap what we sow and if the ground is fertile we bear the fruit of our labor.
The question everyone should be asking is what do they inspire in others?
You see, I am a firm believer that we should all live up to our full potentials ... we are all each others greatest resource because I don't know what you could be inspired to nor inspire others to that could in turn inspire me to which is a snowball of inspiration in the area of the human psyche
If this world remains at odds with itself it will fail. Take all of the emotions felt by every human and put together is it any wonder why we are so dysfunctional?
just like my marriage, and if I can't resolve my marriage then how could I presume to be able to change the world?
Do you see my frustration here? I can't change you or a world in pain unless it wants to be changed and without trusting my judgment in being able to see the picture I am but a passing thought...
Knowing you could make the difference but not being listened to ... don't we all feel this way?
There is only one language that cuts across that barrier, the language of LOVE and that is the one word mankind resists because like mirrors, we all reflect the environment we live in.
the devil is winning.
I know many here (hell, everywhere) even deny there is a God but they confuse Religion with Spirituality. Religion was created by man to divide men. Spirituality is the unification of us all.
reply posted on 9-2-2012 @ 12:05 PM by ottobot
reply to post by anoncoholic
Hey, thanks for giving more details on where you're coming from - I appreciate it.
I think, though, that the only way things will change is if people Love others with no expectation of reciprocation.
Indeed, if all of us accepted other people for who they are instead of expecting them to be who we want them to be... we would have no conflict. Everybody would be capable of rational discussion, and problems would be solved through understanding, not argument.
These are the things I want in the world, so these are the things I try to put out into the world.
I do know that it may or may not be listened to... but that's not going to stop me from doing my part to make things better.
If I don't even try just because I think it will be fruitless, then "they" have already won.
I have one suggestion for you regarding your wife: tell her you love her, frequently and randomly. She may begin to hear you just for the amorous talk... but after awhile she might start actually listening.
You'll never know until you try!
Hey, thanks for giving more details on where you're coming from - I appreciate it.
I think, though, that the only way things will change is if people Love others with no expectation of reciprocation.
Indeed, if all of us accepted other people for who they are instead of expecting them to be who we want them to be... we would have no conflict. Everybody would be capable of rational discussion, and problems would be solved through understanding, not argument.
These are the things I want in the world, so these are the things I try to put out into the world.
I do know that it may or may not be listened to... but that's not going to stop me from doing my part to make things better.
If I don't even try just because I think it will be fruitless, then "they" have already won.
I have one suggestion for you regarding your wife: tell her you love her, frequently and randomly. She may begin to hear you just for the amorous talk... but after awhile she might start actually listening.
You'll never know until you try!
reply posted on 9-2-2012 @ 12:12 PM by nicolet
reply to post by SLAYER69
Currently we look to how we are different to love both ourselves and each other rather than how we are the same.
Our entire existence or experience is created based on the premise of demonstrating or proving or validating how we are different (better not worse, good not bad).
We do this with pretty much everything that exists within the physical world. Starting at a very young age we do this with the grades that we receive in school which is based entirely and solely on what we are able to memorize or regurgitate. This patterns expands as we grow into adults when we can apply the same pattern with money, how "hot" our girlfriend or boyfriend is, the house or neighborhood that we live in, our title at work, the family we belong to, etc...
What I am saying is that is an external (collective) reflection of the ego, or the fragmented self. It is what we ourselves are creating and with just a teeny tiny bit of self reflection you can observe this very pattern playing out constantly within your own experience. It is just a larger and collective manifestation of it.
Notice how many times throughout the day you can catch yourself loving yourself or feeling good about who you are just because you are different than somebody else.
To add: This is a very very very small way of both viewing ourselves and loving ourselves. When we have to look to somebody who does not have what we believe we have in order to feel good about who we are we create pretty much what we have today. An imbalanced world that is fully of suffering, limitation and fear. LOL
Currently we look to how we are different to love both ourselves and each other rather than how we are the same.
Our entire existence or experience is created based on the premise of demonstrating or proving or validating how we are different (better not worse, good not bad).
We do this with pretty much everything that exists within the physical world. Starting at a very young age we do this with the grades that we receive in school which is based entirely and solely on what we are able to memorize or regurgitate. This patterns expands as we grow into adults when we can apply the same pattern with money, how "hot" our girlfriend or boyfriend is, the house or neighborhood that we live in, our title at work, the family we belong to, etc...
What I am saying is that is an external (collective) reflection of the ego, or the fragmented self. It is what we ourselves are creating and with just a teeny tiny bit of self reflection you can observe this very pattern playing out constantly within your own experience. It is just a larger and collective manifestation of it.
Notice how many times throughout the day you can catch yourself loving yourself or feeling good about who you are just because you are different than somebody else.
To add: This is a very very very small way of both viewing ourselves and loving ourselves. When we have to look to somebody who does not have what we believe we have in order to feel good about who we are we create pretty much what we have today. An imbalanced world that is fully of suffering, limitation and fear. LOL
edit on 9-2-2012 by nicolet because: (no reason given)
edit on 9-2-2012 by nicolet because: (no reason
given)
edit on 9-2-2012 by nicolet because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 9-2-2012 @ 02:33 PM by bestintentions
reply to post by Iamschist and post by SLAYER69
absolutely true. although i use a non-religious term to explain the principle to myself. because faith is heavily connected with belief. and belief is but following – even if following in the right direction. when the direction is not provided or is false, the believer is at a loss and disoriented and in pain.
lack of trust. trust and understand (really have figured it out and know it as a fact) that life always spirals towards love. life always provides the best possible situation to grow towards love. always. when you understand that you can trust this fact.
that is sometimes very difficult to understand specially when it hurts like hell to let go of a yummy apple gone rotten before life can provide a new one and give us another chance to get it right. then the need arises to investigate what exactly hurts. it will be to let go of and modify illusions based around the image of myself.
on a national level things seem to be beyond personal responsibility. but a nation is made out of individuals who have responsibilities.
boiling it down to a personal level i am directly in touch with the mechanism that provides me opportunities for my benefit. if i recognize this and let myself go with that flow – does not mean i will have no more hardship to face, but i will have stepped up the ladder and will be facing the next level of difficulties to reach total freedom. but the level i have mastered will give me freedom to enjoy.
if on the other hand i resist the path that is clear infront of me in the light to be observed (it takes practice to observe and is easily missed while ones own images are kept important) if i think i know it better because past experiences have taught me well and my fear and mistrust are good indicators of possible outcomes, or i imagine different outcomes that i absolutely want, or i believe that my mother/teacher/government etc are right, then i take matters in my hand. i resist the facts of reality and i might as well go and bash my head into a wall. it will be all over the same: back to the drawing board and try figure it out again to be content, to live in peace.
I tend to think of fear as a lack of faith.
absolutely true. although i use a non-religious term to explain the principle to myself. because faith is heavily connected with belief. and belief is but following – even if following in the right direction. when the direction is not provided or is false, the believer is at a loss and disoriented and in pain.
lack of trust. trust and understand (really have figured it out and know it as a fact) that life always spirals towards love. life always provides the best possible situation to grow towards love. always. when you understand that you can trust this fact.
that is sometimes very difficult to understand specially when it hurts like hell to let go of a yummy apple gone rotten before life can provide a new one and give us another chance to get it right. then the need arises to investigate what exactly hurts. it will be to let go of and modify illusions based around the image of myself.
on a national level things seem to be beyond personal responsibility. but a nation is made out of individuals who have responsibilities.
boiling it down to a personal level i am directly in touch with the mechanism that provides me opportunities for my benefit. if i recognize this and let myself go with that flow – does not mean i will have no more hardship to face, but i will have stepped up the ladder and will be facing the next level of difficulties to reach total freedom. but the level i have mastered will give me freedom to enjoy.
if on the other hand i resist the path that is clear infront of me in the light to be observed (it takes practice to observe and is easily missed while ones own images are kept important) if i think i know it better because past experiences have taught me well and my fear and mistrust are good indicators of possible outcomes, or i imagine different outcomes that i absolutely want, or i believe that my mother/teacher/government etc are right, then i take matters in my hand. i resist the facts of reality and i might as well go and bash my head into a wall. it will be all over the same: back to the drawing board and try figure it out again to be content, to live in peace.
reply posted on 9-2-2012 @ 04:18 PM by Sahabi
reply to post by SLAYER69
That's a great start!
You are addressing peace between Israel and Iran? I wish it were so easily attainable, but how can we expect it when both the Qur'an and Torah sanction war for God's sake?
Now, maybe if all sides started looking for and building upon on all the similarities {Very numerous} we can make some real progress, instead of focusing on the few {Really} differences and killing each other over them.
That's a great start!
You are addressing peace between Israel and Iran? I wish it were so easily attainable, but how can we expect it when both the Qur'an and Torah sanction war for God's sake?
reply posted on 12-2-2012 @ 05:54 PM by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by SLAYER69
I'm guilty of not reading the entire thread and just jumping in - and what I'm about to say can hardly be considered novel :-)
but - if we took away all the extras - like who could actually benefit from war and not so much with the peace, I think it's because there's a greater perceived risk in taking a chance on peace
no one wants to get caught with their pants down - nobody wants to naively trust that the other side will behave honorably - better to be prepared for war than not - and then one step farther - a good offense is the better defense
it's a gamble - and war seems like a better gamble than peace
sadly
Is it impossible to have an impartial objective discussion about any given heated topic? I have a few guesses which I'll share here with whomever cares to discuss not Iran and Israel but the deeper human root causes for FEAR and mistrust.
I'm looking for something deeper.
I'm guilty of not reading the entire thread and just jumping in - and what I'm about to say can hardly be considered novel :-)
but - if we took away all the extras - like who could actually benefit from war and not so much with the peace, I think it's because there's a greater perceived risk in taking a chance on peace
no one wants to get caught with their pants down - nobody wants to naively trust that the other side will behave honorably - better to be prepared for war than not - and then one step farther - a good offense is the better defense
it's a gamble - and war seems like a better gamble than peace
sadly
reply posted on 12-2-2012 @ 06:04 PM by andersensrm
reply to post by Spiramirabilis
Exactly. And then it makes you think, why do we trust ourselves, and each other on the same side, and if we can do that, why can't we extend that out.
Exactly. And then it makes you think, why do we trust ourselves, and each other on the same side, and if we can do that, why can't we extend that out.
reply posted on 13-2-2012 @ 04:59 AM by absolutely
Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by SLAYER69
- better to be prepared for war than not - and then one step farther - a good offense is the better defense
u r not reasoning in truth, who dont mean peace do not mean war, on the contrary to not mean peace is to mean ur freedom absolutely of all
while then it is the opposite result in fact if u go to wars, dealing with others when u dont like others is impossible when it is about dealing negatively too with them
there are so many speculations of beliefs that belong all to lies in absolute wills
who want to go to war is the same one then who want peace
opposites do not exist when existence is to truth, which makes opposites facts being relative same one thing freedom
the only opposite concept is lies realms existing constancy, where evil wills become living from taking advantage of objective true knowledge, the mean to exist according to existence justifications is totally wrong, anyone existence is a fact of absolute existence what any free sense could mean there is relative else means
so who mean wars mean others in positive sense, but they dont want to mean else
that is how love is hate always, love is the positive sense to other as long as it stays there as u want, but love is the opposition to freedom sense while freedom is the truth, so else freedom is recognition of else being truth in absolute abstraction of what absolute is
reply posted on 13-2-2012 @ 08:42 AM by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by absolutely
:-)
absolutely - I'm not sure I understand you completely - and I think you may have misunderstood me
since I was old enough to understand what war and peace are - I've wanted peace
what I said above was not what I believe we should do - it's what I think we humans tend to do
:-)
absolutely - I'm not sure I understand you completely - and I think you may have misunderstood me
since I was old enough to understand what war and peace are - I've wanted peace
what I said above was not what I believe we should do - it's what I think we humans tend to do
reply posted on 13-2-2012 @ 09:25 AM by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by andersensrm
I wish we could - and I think there are plenty of people who do - as individuals and even together in groups or as a nation
some people deal with their fear by trying to control things - the rest is obvious
maybe sometimes it's also like trying to deal with a dog that's afraid - and defensive. Doesn't matter if your intentions are good - the dog doesn't care. And so - the only thing you can do is deal with the angry dog - whether you want to or not
Exactly. And then it makes you think, why do we trust ourselves, and each other on the same side, and if we can do that, why can't we extend that out.
I wish we could - and I think there are plenty of people who do - as individuals and even together in groups or as a nation
some people deal with their fear by trying to control things - the rest is obvious
maybe sometimes it's also like trying to deal with a dog that's afraid - and defensive. Doesn't matter if your intentions are good - the dog doesn't care. And so - the only thing you can do is deal with the angry dog - whether you want to or not
reply posted on 13-2-2012 @ 10:46 AM by absolutely
Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by absolutely
:-)
absolutely - I'm not sure I understand you completely - and I think you may have misunderstood me
since I was old enough to understand what war and peace are - I've wanted peace
what I said above was not what I believe we should do - it's what I think we humans tend to do
i was just giving my perspective on what u said about others, the problem in not staying relative right is all those arguments that u buy from lies, the market is full of those crap where there is nothing to get from
but then again it applies to u too, since now u r claiming that u choose peace to war so it is impossible as i proved it
the choice is only between relative freedom from all or absolute relations to all
the same old choice, existing or being free
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