32nd level mason

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by TheGreatest
It's unusual thing, where you have this collective group of people that is perceived as being extremely evasive and secretive with "sinister" secrets, when really it is no different than a church congregation discussing their faiths and beliefs and expanding and sharing knowledge amongst one another, perhaps this is the truth of freemasonry?

I suppose the main difference is that we really don't go into any specific religious dogma. I would think actually discussing an individual's belief would be more in line with Unitarianism. In Masonry we agree to the fact that we believe in one God, who created the universe, and we hope that if we lead a good life we'll be welcomed in an afterlife. That's about as far as the faith-based stuff goes. My take on it is, no one of us can know for certain what happens to us after we die, so why argue over what to call your God or how best to worship Him? In the meanwhile, we CAN agree to share our time on earth trying to help people in need, in whatever capacity that might take... medical, financial, manual labor, education, or whatever. So we fund hospitals, take up collections for people who are down on their luck, help with things like Habitat for Humanity, offer scholarships to kids going off to college, etc.

We teach each other morality, and offer through symbolism some tools to try to lead a better life.

Thank you again for sharing your knowledge, it comforting to know on a forum full of conspiracies that often some of the sinister 'plots' out there are just figments of peoples imagination. If only politics followed suit, the world would be a much nicer place to live in.

My grandfather was a Freemason, i only have his documents showing his 18 degree Scottish Rite but he recieved that many years before his death so i'm assuming he was higher. Is there any way i can find out? My dad doesn't know and has never had much interest in the subject. I never knew my grandfather, he died when i was very young; the more i learn about Masonry, the more i wish i did.
From what i gather, after the 18th degree, the next is straight to the 30th, with the 19th through 29 being inferred with the 30th, then 31 and 32 with the 33rd being an honorary degree given to those of great service.
I'll join one of these days, when the time is right.

It's sad to see so much BS about Masonry being associated with the "Illuminati", "New World Order" and satanism etc. Nothing could be further from the truth. You only have to listen to a few lectures by Manly P Hall to understand the mindset that they are really about. He is one of my heroes, an amazing man.

I'm of the belief that Masonry has been demonized over history by the Catholic church as their knowledge and wisdom was a threat to the churches' powerbase. Masonry will accept Catholics, but the Catholic church does not allow Freemasons. What does this tell you regarding whom is the more tolerant?

People quote a so called letter by Albert Pike to Mazzini in 1871 regarding the predicting of the 3 world wars as a means to convert humanity to Satanism. The truth is, there is zero evidence that the letter ever existed. Zero. It was never displayed in the museum it was said to have been and no records exist of it in the museum's records. It was a hoax, an old hoax, but a hoax nonetheless, most likely perpetuated to blacken the name of Freemasons and divert the population's spiritual powerbase back to the church. People should to do their own research if they are really interested, instead of simply repeating chinese whispers as fact!

Anyways, rant over

Originally posted by Funk bunyip
My grandfather was a Freemason, i only have his documents showing his 18 degree Scottish Rite but he recieved that many years before his death so i'm assuming he was higher. Is there any way i can find out?

Sounds like you're in the UK? Their Scottish Rite system does seem to stall at 18 and degrees after that are honors, I think, whereas most of the time in the states you can go from 4 to 32 in a weekend, with only the 14th, 18th, 30th and 32nd as obligatory degrees.

I'm of the belief that Masonry has been demonized over history by the Catholic church as thier knowledge and wisdom was a threat to the churches powerbase. Masonry will accept Catholics, but the Catholic church does not allow Freemasons. What does this tell you regarding whom is the more tolerant?

Indeed. Though I honestly don't believe there was any relationship between Freemasonry and the Knights Templar, I can see some parallels in how they've been made to look like bad guys by tyrants and the church.

People quote a so called letter by Albert Pike regarding the predicting of the 3 world wars as a means to convert humanity to worship Satan. The truth is, there is zero evidence that the letter ever existed. Zero. It was never displayed in the museum it was said to have been and no records exist of it in the museums records.. It was a hoax, an old hoax, but a hoax nonetheless, most likely perpetuated to blacken the name of Freemasons and divert the populations spiritual powerbase back to the church.

Indeed.

Damn, you quoted me before i edited my grammar

Nup i'm not in the UK, Australia.

I'm curious as to the relationship between the Templars and the Masons; some sources trace the Masons right back to Hiram, the architect of Solomon's temple, therefore far outdating the Templars.
The Templars were clearly in Jerusalem looking for the Ark of the Covenant which was previously housed in the temple but long gone by the time they got there. I believe it's entirely possible it now resides in the Church of our Lady Mary of Zion in Ethiopia. The region has strong Orthodox Jewish beliefs along with a lot of Templar symbology.

Originally posted by Funk bunyip
Damn, you quoted me before i edited my grammar

Nup i'm not in the UK, Australia.

Ah. Still, the Scottish Rite system down under would probably be different than as practiced in the US. There are websites for each territory's Grand Lodge though. If you want to research your grandfather's involvement, you might try contacting the secretary of the appropriate group and see how much of their older records has been digitized or is searchable.

I'm curious as to the relationship between the Templars and the Masons; some sources trace the Masons right back to Hiram, the architect of Solomon's temple, therefore far outdating the Templars.

The legends portrayed in the degrees are set in the Temple of Solomon, and around its construction. There are few Masons who actually believe we date back that far, but more often agree that our ritual is based on those tales as nothing more than allegory and nostalgia. (I would argue the same goes for any Masonic tie to the Templars... such degrees were written in the 19th century amid a resurgence in chivalric romanticism. Boys will be boys, and we still like to take up the sword and call each other Sir Knight from time to time. But I do not believe that there is an unbroken historical thread that takes us back THAT far. My opinion, of course.

The Templars were clearly in Jerusalem looking for the Ark of the Covenant which was previously housed in the temple but long gone by the time they got there. I believe it's entirely possible it now resides in the Church of our Lady Mary of Zion in Ethiopia. The region has strong Orthodox Jewish beliefs along with a lot of Templar symbology.

I've heard the Ethiopia bit myself and they seem as plausible a solution as any.

More interesting to me is the legend in some of the Scottish Rite degrees based on the idea that Enoch had 9 vaults dug (possibly under the temple mount/dome of the rock) where he buried a golden cube inscribed with the true name of God.

Originally posted by Funk bunyip
My grandfather was a Freemason, i only have his documents showing his 18 degree Scottish Rite but he recieved that many years before his death so i'm assuming he was higher. Is there any way i can find out? My dad doesn't know and has never had much interest in the subject. I never knew my grandfather, he died when i was very young; the more i learn about Masonry, the more i wish i did.
From what i gather, after the 18th degree, the next is straight to the 30th, with the 19th through 29 being inferred with the 30th, then 31 and 32 with the 33rd being an honorary degree given to those of great service.
I'll join one of these days, when the time is right.

It's sad to see so much BS about Masonry being associated with the "Illuminati", "New World Order" and satanism etc. Nothing could be further from the truth. You only have to listen to a few lectures by Manly P Hall to understand the mindset that they are really about. He is one of my heroes, an amazing man.

I'm of the belief that Masonry has been demonized over history by the Catholic church as their knowledge and wisdom was a threat to the churches' powerbase. Masonry will accept Catholics, but the Catholic church does not allow Freemasons. What does this tell you regarding whom is the more tolerant?

People quote a so called letter by Albert Pike to Mazzini in 1871 regarding the predicting of the 3 world wars as a means to convert humanity to Satanism. The truth is, there is zero evidence that the letter ever existed. Zero. It was never displayed in the museum it was said to have been and no records exist of it in the museum's records. It was a hoax, an old hoax, but a hoax nonetheless, most likely perpetuated to blacken the name of Freemasons and divert the population's spiritual powerbase back to the church. People should to do their own research if they are really interested, instead of simply repeating chinese whispers as fact!

Anyways, rant over

edit on 11-2-2012 by Funk bunyip because: (no reason given)

I'm actually reading Manly P. Halls book 'The secret teachings of all ages.' right now, some people think his is a Lucifer worshipper but his works are clearly pointed at the mason belief of a universal creator, or God. He set a great example of Freemasonry to the world and showed his amazing charitable qualities as well during his lifetime.

He truly is an amazing man.

Originally posted by TheGreatest
I'm actually reading Manly P. Halls book 'The secret teachings of all ages.' right now, some people think his is a Lucifer worshipper but his works are clearly pointed at the mason belief of a universal creator, or God. He set a great example of Freemasonry to the world and showed his amazing charitable qualities as well during his lifetime.

He truly is an amazing man.

Actually, the curious thing about Hall is that he wrote almost all of his books some 30 years before he got around to joining Freemasonry himself. So most of his published observations on Masonry were done from an outsider's perspective.

Ah. Still, the Scottish Rite system down under would probably be different than as practiced in the US. There are websites for each territory's Grand Lodge though. If you want to research your grandfather's involvement, you might try contacting the secretary of the appropriate group and see how much of their older records has been digitized or is searchable.

Yeah i think i will, i wasn't sure how much was public record; according to his papers, he held a lot of different titles, such as "Worshipful Master" "Grand pursuivant" "Grand sword bearer" and "Grand steward" over many different years, so no doubt there are records! Gotta love the names of those titles, very grandiose

The legends portrayed in the degrees are set in the Temple of Solomon, and around its construction. There are few Masons who actually believe we date back that far, but more often agree that our ritual is based on those tales as nothing more than allegory and nostalgia.

I tend to agree, i doubt they actually existed as a group way back then, the Temple being used more as a spiritual metaphor than anything. However it is fun to entertain the notion of a literal root source

I've heard the Ethiopia bit myself and they seem as plausible a solution as any.

If nothing else, THEY definately believe it! No doubt, the Italian soldiers who suffered a massive loss against Ethiopia in the 1896 Battle of Adwa believed it too There are even rumours of the Ark being used in the battle!
Very interesting that Italy coveted Ethiopia around the same era as the Catholic Church was trying to discredit Albert Pike...
They eventually did occupy Ethiopia before the 2nd world war, but one can understand perhaps why they didn't attempt to take the Ark if Old Testament accounts of what happened to the Philistines when they took the Ark by force are anything to go by!

Anyways, THIS guy and his mates guarding the current day Our Lady Mary of Zion church definately believe it is there!



I might one day write a thread about the subject, but i don't know if i could be bothered suffering the hecklers and trolls!

More interesting to me is the legend in some of the Scottish Rite degrees based on the idea that Enoch had 9 vaults dug (possibly under the temple mount/dome of the rock) where he buried a golden cube inscribed with the true name of God.

I haven't heard this story, will have to look into it!

On another matter, I'd like to use some of the artwork from my grandfather's original documents as an avatar for my profile, only small sections, with important details removed, would that be considered disrespectful by Masons or is it a non-issue?

I'm actually reading Manly P. Halls book 'The secret teachings of all ages.' right now, some people think his is a Lucifer worshipper but his works are clearly pointed at the mason belief of a universal creator, or God. He set a great example of Freemasonry to the world and showed his amazing charitable qualities as well during his lifetime. He truly is an amazing man.

It's quite an amazing book, even more so considering how young he was when he wrote it! Some chapters are a bit of a slog to read, but when taken in historical context, there is an awesome amount of knowledge in the book!
When you finish reading it, i suggest listening to some of his lectures, many can be found here in the Youtube channel MPHarchive. Great stuff!
I'm a believer in the theory of an advanced Antideluvian (pre flood) worldwide civilization, so this is one of my favourites, although he touches on the subject in many other lectures.

wow, thanks for all the know how contributed here. I find this so fascinating now,
I guess I was just floored my Dad never said anything about it.
thanks for all the info everybody, I'm going to keep 'researching' this, I had no idea there were so many - branches - etc.
I guess it's only human nature for a female to want to know more about a 'man's club'.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Atlantican
By the 18th degree one should no longer be a "die hard" ANYPARTY...

Why should any degree dictate what your political leanings may be?

The Free Masons were founded on political reasons alone. It would only make sense that politics be a HUGE thing if not the CENTRAL theme for their secret society. But then again, his dad probably isn't a REAL free mason.

Originally posted by Slavich
The Free Masons were founded on political reasons alone. It would only make sense that politics be a HUGE thing if not the CENTRAL theme for their secret society. But then again, his dad probably isn't a REAL free mason.

Politics are not discussed in Lodge (nor is religion) making this point a non-starter.

Originally posted by Funk bunyip
On another matter, I'd like to use some of the artwork from my grandfather's original documents as an avatar for my profile, only small sections, with important details removed, would that be considered disrespectful by Masons or is it a non-issue?

The only thing I'd recommend that you not use is the square and compasses. And, of course, there's nothing I could do if you decided to use those. The general rule is that only a Master Mason should display those symbols, but, of course, not being a member there's no way we can hold you to those rules.

reply to post by JoshNorton


Nah all good, i had the avatar up for a bit, but i felt like i was trying to get 'props' for things my grandfather had achieved, not me, so i took it down again!


reply to post by horseplay


Glad to help! So many fascinating intertwined subjects, should keep ya busy!

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I always thought that to be a 32nd Dregree Freemason included playing the adult version of the childhood game known only as "BLOODY MARY"

Hint: Mary Magdaline & Mother Mary...

How to play??? Well... Let's hope its not as severe as it is as depicted in the "Passion of Christ."

reply to post by Pinocchio

Whips and chains are not used until at least the KCCH.

reply to post by Pinocchio


you are truly a legend in your own mind.

Originally posted by Pinocchio
Thumbs me up if you think I have the best profile ever on ATS...

Call me when you are the Emperor of Mexico and get to hang out with Penn and Teller.

reply to post by horseplay

OK, so I'm visiting my Dad in Florida and just noticed his ring. I asked him if it was a mason ring. He not only said yes, but told me he is a 32nd level mason. Of course, I asked him for some secrets and he said they would not be secrets if he told me.

He doesn't know any secrets.

Masons like to act coy and feed the fire, as if they REALLY know something.

But they don't...