The Reality About of the Universe & Reality Itself

This will get highly metaphysical and philosophical...but let's get started...

* Let's assume another intelligence, here on Earth or maybe on another planet.
As we can speculate, this intelligence/species might have totally different senses than we have.

As for us, WE have eyes, we have sensory perception, last but not least we have a brain to process all that what is coming in through our senses.

We "look" up into the sky and we see stars, planets etc.

Now do a little game in your mind, and "imagine" how the universe looks, how a planetary system looks, how a planet is orbiting a star etc..etc...

And you will realize that what we say "is our reality" is in big parts "what we see"....as for my part, eg. doing this little "mind exercise" i "see" planets and stars on a dark background, how they move etc...to form what we think "the universe is".

Now back to those other beings:

Can we assume that some species might not have eyes. They might live on a planet without a lot of light and never developed eyes, but instead developed other, far more "out there" senses. Or maybe only very primitive senses like tasting, smelling etc.

If those intelligent beings cannot "see"...the first question is whether such a civilization would EVER be aware that there are stars above their heads in the sky? Let alone form a mental image about "how the universe is like" when they dont even know the concept of seeing which would mean:

* such beings don't have a concept of a shape, color, maybe not even a concept of "distance".

Let's assume an intelligent species lives on a planet which can only taste/feel what is close to them in their vicinity....and as a further "mind exercise" try to imagine "the world" BUT WITH NO concept of "shape".

How does a round planet look like if i dont know what "round" is?

What is the difference between a "far" planet and a "close" planet if i don't have a concept about "distance", maybe only because all what my senses allow is "tasting and feeling"...let alone that such an intelligence would have a hell of a time to "envision", say, a planet system or similar..how should they do that if they can only experience their world, say, by feeling eg. with extremities, maybe tentacles or similar.

The PHILOSOPHICAL questions comes in now because it would be absurd to say that another intelligence because their senses might be different,"can not realize the true shape of the universe/reality"...and OURS is the right one....does this make sense?

For example, i can make a statement that "the universe" is like this or that and describe eg. a planetary system...but ONLY in a context as our senses allow to PERCEIVE something...it simply cannot be the end of it all simply because "we see it like that".

The other philosophical question is...what if Earth/the universe had never brought about humans and our minds? Let's (hypothetically) go back to the big bang....everything happens again..but by come coincidence this time man will never exist.

What do animals know about the universe, what do my cats know about the universe? What do they think if they look up at night and they see stars..etc..etc?

If there is no mind to "discover"...does the universe vanish? If we don't know, does something then also not exist? If we humans would never ever be able to see stars, would we know they are there? If we couldn't see or have any means/instruments to see stars etc...how would we know about "the reality" of the universe...and then of course, how can we conclude this IS the reality just because this is how we see it?

Like: A planet can be a round sphere/ball, it could be reddish/blue whatever..... what if "round" is something i cannot work with in my mind..what if i don't know what a "ball" is (since i don't know the concept of shapes) and what if colors don't exists for my mind?

Is the universe "absolute" in its shape...is a planet then still a roundish ball-like sphere which might be red or blue...or something totally different? What is the "truth"..so to speak?

reply to post by flexy123


Thats very interesting! An example of this are dogs. They think with smells, and would define things with their nose.

reply to post by flexy123


Dear flexy123

Quite right according to our senses the universe is the way it is.

Dose it exist until we see it, good question have a look at quantum physics. There is apparently some doubt about that.

However we have the brain size we do quit possibility because we have the senses we do. Sight takes up a big part of it so I hear. So this being so I would imagine another inelegant being too have very similar senses. Especially if they have developed technology.

Like I can not see a species that lives in the sea ever making it hear just think about the processes involved in getting us to where we are today. Like try doing that lot under water.

reply to post by flexy123


stop making fancies with ur imagination of things that cannot exist

what exist is exclusively through absolute rights

what is absolutely is wether freedom or real

what is relatively real is fully objective so can see clearly

what is relatively free is fully superior so can conceive itself objectively so dont smell or feel while can move through abstraction of dimensions concepts

Imagine you are an atom with eyes. Look around. What do you see? You see a vast sea of other atoms as far as the eye can see. Some atoms are bonded together in various ways, but you don't understand why, nor do you understand what they bond together to form, or what the implications of their various bonds might be.

All you see is atoms and atoms and atoms whizzing through space with no apparent purpose other that just to whiz through space.

Little do you, the atom, know that some of those bonds and combinations of atoms come together to form complex intelligent life. Little do you know of what you really are and what you are about. Little do you know of what it means to be alive. Little do you know of much of anything.

As it is with the atom, so it is with you. We look around, even on our own planet, and have no idea what it means to be a dog or a cat or a cow or a lion. We only know about what it means to be human. And actually, we have no idea that all these things are part of an even larger intelligent system, nor can we imagine what that intelligent system looks like from that intelligent system's perspective.

Dinosaurs didn't evolve to become us. Dinosaurs evolved to become the Earth and then created us by thought. We will also evolve that way except the dinosaurs that came before us will evolve to become the star and create what we are to become by their thought. But we will also create the next generation of individual life forms by thought, whether consciously or subconsciously. We're not going to become the next level of human. We are going to become the next level of existence. At that point, we will know very well what it means to be a dog, a cat, a cow, and a lion.

Love is light and light is love.

If there is no mind to "discover"...does the universe vanish?

In a sense, I would say so. All truth, whether it be about the universe, consciousness, "love and light", atoms, etc. is interpretation and metaphor. No fact can be true unless the perceiver is factored into the equation, or that fact is merely hearsay, belief and faith.

But I think it's a reductio ad absurdum to assume that the universe is the work of our organs and senses. Because what about our organs? are they the work of our organs? etc. etc. etc.

These are just opinions.

reply to post by smithjustinb


So in regards to my post above:

Are you one who thinks they know, or are you wise enough to admit that you don't have a clue.

Whats spooky is when such beings become aware of you because you become aware of them.

reply to post by smithjustinb


it is funny how far u insist to invent visions about everything, how do u do that, i dnt know evil for sure

so an atom see? oh.. wt is the condition to see according to u? i guess u would say eyes

Schrodinger's cat anyone??

Personally, I have always struggled to grasp the concept of this theory..... the idea that nothing truly exists until it is observed.......

narcissism in my opinion..... pure narcissism.....

PA

reply to post by PerfectAnomoly


the point is freedom not nothing
when u kill absolute freedom then u r killing superiority realms then all u got left is objective facts existence in positive to inferiority realms

Originally posted by absolutely
reply to post by PerfectAnomoly

 

the point is freedom not nothing
when u kill absolute freedom then u r killing superiority realms then all u got left is objective facts existence in positive to inferiority realms

Forgive me... but I have no clue what you are trying to say here?

PA

reply to post by flexy123


We perceive reality through our consciousness. So if there is no consciousness we can not perceive reality, but that doesnt mean reality disappears, since life goes on even though someone dies. We can say the reality still exists but it is perceived in the context of what we call mind which is a process of moments interconnected together which our consciousness sees as one distinct thing thereby giving us the impression of a real and permanent thing which is in actuality a changing cycle of physical matter with no real meaning to it except what we make of it.

Originally posted by absolutely
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

it is funny how far u insist to invent visions about everything, how do u do that, i dnt know evil for sure

so an atom see? oh.. wt is the condition to see according to u? i guess u would say eyes

The very first word in my reply that you are referring to is, "imagine". How come none of your posts make sense?

There is a reason life exists in this universe. It exists so that this grand and glorious thing can be called grand and glorious. Without observation, the universe might as well be a bump on a log. Actually, it might as well be nothing. What is the purpose of energy doing work if all the work is meaningless? Life defines meaning to anything and everything.

Therefore, your opinions about existence are the most valuable thing in the universe. Existence is only as great as you say it is. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Love is more than an emotion, it is an assignment of value to the universe of the highest degree. What you find is that any amount of love you can have for the universe amounts to nothing compared to how much love there actually can be. That's the beauty of existence.

And its entirely subjective.

Animals-they all have eyes and almost perceive reality as close as we do. What about insects? They know less than animals. The only way to test this is to experience death. When we die the Universe keeps rolling. But to us its game over! We may or may not exist in some form after death. But the Universe and people continue to exist.

Originally posted by radkrish
Animals-they all have eyes and almost perceive reality as close as we do. What about insects? They know less than animals. The only way to test this is to experience death. When we die the Universe keeps rolling. But to us its game over! We may or may not exist in some form after death. But the Universe and people continue to exist.

edit on 10-2-2012 by radkrish because: (no reason given)

How do you know insects aren't similarly intelligent as the rest of us? I believe that all life on earth is of similar intelligence.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by absolutely
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

it is funny how far u insist to invent visions about everything, how do u do that, i dnt know evil for sure

so an atom see? oh.. wt is the condition to see according to u? i guess u would say eyes

The very first word in my reply that you are referring to is, "imagine". How come none of your posts make sense?

you are confirming what i said, u enjoy inventing visions about everything that dont concern u

that is how u love to believe that u r the reason of urself physical life and mean to use preachings ways for any way to claim ur value for all existence

there is no argument when it is all subjective and wills

Originally posted by filosophia
reply to post by flexy123

 

giving us the impression of a real and permanent thing which is in actuality a changing cycle of physical matter with no real meaning to it except what we make of it.

there is no real meaning for what is not real, by definition it is nothing wether from down negative intelligence ways to use zero as the absolute superior ground or from up inferior freedom that mean to use nothing freedom as positive possession right

reality is to constancy means which is all to freedom value in absolute truth life

u cant make any to what is real but to confirm it, but then u r out so u can make smthg out of that freedom relative subject that u become

Interesting, but your defeating the concept. Your trying to understand how another being would grasp the concept of things without your senses, not knowing what type of senses they have, or how they work. Sound waves are similar to lightwaves, and could be used as a type of vision, but this is still defeating the purpose because we are trying to understand using our senses, and our experiences of how our senses work, and how other sensors( computer) work, which are all based off of our senses. So do we really have the capability to concieve how other beings look at the universe, no we don't, until we communicate with them some how.