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The Devil's Chord: The conspiracy to open the portal of consciousness and mystery of the octave

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posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by fulllotusqigong
 


The goal is to harness sound as music to the ears... Nothing more needs to be added, but to avoid further confusion: An infinite series of waves is continuous inside concept alone. In actuality, an individual series is countered by opposite flow - creating pressure, leading to cavitations, and forming rings. These rings will mesh via six spatial directions and provide density for what we percieve as matter.




posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 06:49 PM
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reply to post by UncleV
 


You could always do a search of the thread before posting using a keyword. I use advanced google search for that; it works well.



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by DenyObfuscation
 


Yeah it's called the...

Dr. Alan C. Bowen reveals how Archytas developed these means from Pythagorean harmonics in his article “The Minor Sixth (8:5) in Early Greek Harmonic Science,” The American Journal of Philology, 1978: “For it was during this time that scales of a double octave magnitude, i.e. the Greater Perfect System, were constructed to facilitate the analysis of melody.”



Now, using the Greater Perfect System, the middle of the octave, the geometric mean as the irrational square root of two or 9/8 cubed, could be expanded and turned into just 2:1 as the middle of the double octave.



So Archytas then took the double octave, the “Greater Perfect System,” as four but it is also the square of the octave used by Pythagorean number theory. The result is that four times or the square of the weight to stretch the string now makes twice the frequency, instead of half the frequency at double the string length. This was the “bait and switch” trick that was the direct inspiration, later, for Newton’s inverse square law of gravity!242



242 James H. Bunn, Wave Forms: A Natural Syntax for Rhythmic Languages (Stanford University Press, 2002) citing “Newton and the Pipes of Pan” from Notes and Records of the Royal Society of London, 1966.


So it was used for the double octave and then it was transferred for Newton's inverse square law of gravity.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 05:04 AM
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Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
So that is from my 2007 article How the West Lost Alchemy


I am still struggling to understand music theory.

From the above link:


Instead of the above system, the alchemical Pythagorean Tetrad relies on complimentary opposite harmonics so that an equilateral triangle of geometric points equals the continued proportion 1:2:3:4 as the octave, perfect fifth and perfect fourth music intervals. In “orthodox” Pythagorean harmonics this was known as the “subcontrary mean” whereby the complimentary opposites of the Tetrad were maintained in violation of “divide and average” mathematics. So for the Tetrad A:B is 2:3 and B:A is 3:4 against the commutative property, A x B = B x A.


I did not recall seeing the term "subcontrary mean" on the thread before, so I looked it up.

The Free Dictionary redirected the term to "harmonic mean," which is defined this way:


harmonic mean
n.
The reciprocal of the arithmetic mean of the reciprocals of a specified set of numbers.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

~~~~~~~

harmonic mean
n
(Mathematics) the reciprocal of the arithmetic mean of the reciprocals of a set of specified numbers: the harmonic mean of 2, 3, and 4 is 3(½ + ⅓ + ¼)-1 = 36/13

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

~~~~~~~

harmonic mean
The reciprocal of the arithmetic mean of the reciprocals of a specified set of numbers.

The American Heritage® Science Dictionary Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


Huh??


Beats me how anyone can understand that.

I wonder whether there is some other way of explaining it. Maybe with a diagram or something else that is visual?



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by Mary Rose
 


Yeah the harmonic mean is a math trick -- it's still used though rarely -- I think mainly in Wall St. haha.

Here's the googlereview book on Archytas that discusses the origins of the subcontrary mean as the harmonic mean
edit on 8-6-2012 by fulllotusqigong because: (no reason given)



However, Fragment 2 of Archytas is the only relevant text, and the most natural reading of Fragment 2 is that Archytas' predecessors, including Philolaus, called the third mean "subcontrary," while Archytas tells us that he himself calls it "harmonic."
p. 175
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posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 10:10 AM
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reply to post by fulllotusqigong
 


Maybe UncleV could draw me a picture.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by Mary Rose
 


Means, Meaning, and Music: Pythagoras, Archytas, and Plato





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posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 01:12 PM
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Jumping back in to address this:


This Hertz issue was returned to after I had come across the power chord distortion creating subharmonics from the Perfect Fifth.


A power chord is a root and fifth. Because, in the natural harmonic order, a fifth is mathematically in sync with the root, you get that nice fat chord. Adding any other note creates more friction since no other note lines up so nicely with either root or fifth.



So the 200/300 Hertz interval is 66 Hertz while the 300/200 hertz interval is 150 hertz. So that 66 Hertz is F to 100 Hertz as C -- a Perfect Fifth subharmonic. 150 Hertz is the Perfect Fifth as C to G. The same C and so it's non-commutative.


Yes, though your statement is kind of confusing. If we start with 66hz, (pretending it is F) the next harmonic is the octave of 132hz and the next is the fifth of 198hz, which is not perfectly C but then we're dealing with nice round numbers for simplicity's sake. C in our scenario would be 200hz, so pretty accurate. This is my point, if we start with any given note, much of it is spelled out through natural harmonics.



Now your question was is there a doubling of octaves or not with frequency.

No, my question was do you believe that the doubling of a frequency is an octave.



If the natural harmonics are used then the octave doubling does not line up with the Perfect Fifth/Perfect Fourth doubling. Is the octave not connected to the fifth?

I believe I've proven otherwise several times. Natural harmonics gives us perfect octaves and fifths as well as some other notes. It does not give us the fourth within one note, but using the method you used above, we get the fourth but below the starting octave. Since, in standard theory, a fourth and a fifth are mirrors, depending on which is the root note, natural harmonics gives us, indirectly the fourth. F to C is a fifth, C to F (higher octave) is a fourth.



So then UncleV you said that actually I'm just trying to make a different scale than equal-tempered. Actually in order to have the Perfect Fifth line up with the Octave then it has to go against the natural harmonics.


Sort of what I'm saying. I am saying your argument seems to be more against western music theory and/or it's accepted tuning system. However, the octave and the fifth line up naturally, so it's half right. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree that most all tuning systems are compromises. Notes have to be 'massaged' to sound right to western ears. In other cultures, scale/note division is far different. The Balinese tune their percussion to be specifically atonal (to our ears).

Much of your following statements in that post are a bit rambling and confusing for my dumb*ss but what I see is a bunch of ratios that are sort of random and unclear. Like I said above, if we start with a root note of 66hz with find the fifth of 198hz, which is a C (200hz) in our scenario. If we use our starting frequency of 100hz and apply the natural harmonic overtone series, we get the fifth, take that frequency, apply again with get the fifth of that. Do it again and again, starting with the fifth as found in each case and making it the starting frequency we eventually cycle back around to our starting note, give or take a couple hertz as I had to round them down in reducing the freqs to lower octaves for easier workability.

In short, I wondered why the notes we use are what they are and natural harmonic structure bears it out. Of course, we are both in agreement that those frequencies are tempered to fit our tuning system but it doesn't change the mathematical and natural results. Keep in mind the what we think of as harmony is a relatively recent development in mankind's history.

Regarding your statement about squaring vs. doubling, I'm with DenyO on that, I don't get where you are coming from.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 08:16 PM
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reply to post by UncleV
 


Well the squaring versus doubling is the key critical point -- as math professor Luigi Borzacchini has researched -- quoted extensively earlier in the thread. He discussed the issue with the expert of Plato's mathematics -- David Fowler -- again I quote him earlier in the thread. Math professor Joe Mazur encouraged me to publish my research on this issue.

So the point is that the nonwestern music tuning was there. At first from Babylon it was a "divide and average" system without the concept of the irrational number as the geometric mean. So the Babylonians will solve by "divide and average" for an irrational number, just like the Vedic mathematicians -- but there is never this conceptual leap that the number is geometric and therefore infinite.

DenyO asked me earlier if I thought that the square root of two was an infinite number -- again this was discussed earlier in the thread. The source for the square root of two is Archytas' system of music from using the double octave system as squaring.

I suppose you think I'm just "rambling" and so you can just ignore what I've written. haha.

O.K. so for Hertz again on the Harmonic Series -- it is 3/2 since the "root" frequency is 100 Hertz and it is the "root" frequency that is doubled as the octave. So then G to C as 4/3 can not be used as the Perfect Fourth. Why? Because it is inconsistent with the "root" frequency as 1 or 100 hertz.

In other words in the same scale if G to C is 4/3 then why is G to C as 4/3 in the harmonic series not allowed for defining the Perfect Fourth? Earlier in the thread this was brought up.

So instead the subharmonic of 1 as the Harmonic Series or 100 Hertz is used as 2/3x or C to F in the opposite direction -- a longer wavelength.

So you're saying we can just ignore that it is C to F as the Perfect Fifth in one direction while it's C to G as the perfect Fifth in the other direction?

You asked me if this meant that the subharmonic was a subset of 3/2x and I answered yes. Why? Because harmonics are perceived as pitch intervals and not just Hertz frequency.

So you have then stated that using "F" as the new root frequency for doubling the octave you still get -- close to but not quite the doubling of the octave of 100 hertz as C.

132 plus 66 = 198 Hertz. Yep it's almost the same as 200 Hertz.

So you have chosen to wave off this difference as inconsequential but the issue is that doubling the octave is directly tied to doubling the Perfect Fourth in comparison to the "root" frequency and also halving the Perfect Fifth in relation to the "root" frequency -- using the double octave as 9/4 to get 9/8.

9/8 is then cubed as the Devil's Interval -- the tritone as the square root of two.

so in the "Divide and Average" math -- this concept of the square root of two did not exist -- instead the geometry existed on its own as "sacred" or transcendental and the "divide and average" math went on infinitely without ever being considered to converge to a limit of a geometric series.

Whereas in the West there was a proof by contradiction used that was first introduced by Archytas using music ratios -- proving that for the Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth and the Octave -- the Pythagorean Tetrad -- there can be no rational number to complete the octave.

Therefore the number has to be "irrational" as a new type of geometric number.

So it's not just a music scale but it's a philosophy about infinity. The harmonic series diverges so the undertones or subharmonics and the overtones or ultraharmonics -- they, empircally as the experimental, empirical truth, can never be contained as an irrational number.

So for you it's just a change of a music scale -- but actually my point is that this covers up the secret of sound transforming into other types of energy -- ionizing electrochemical energy through ultrasound and infrasound and creating sonoluminescence as holographic consciousness and alchemy as sonofusion.

That is what is lost in the West and still practiced as trance dance healing in other cultures. You mentioned the gamelan binaural beats here but I'm saying that Western science/math can inherently not measure consciousness because of this commutative music scale foundation for Western science. So sonofusion is still being debated and I mentioned the ultrasound connection to quantum consciousness but there is lacking a unified field theory of quantum relativity. My point is that it's precisely because of Archtyas' use of the music commutative scale that the practice of experiencing consciousness as holographic light energy from sound -- listening to the source of sound -- this was covered up and lost in the West.

So the modern male is mind controlled because of this left brain Hertz analysis of music.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 09:04 PM
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reply to post by fulllotusqigong
 



DenyO asked me earlier if I thought that the square root of two was an infinite number

Actually I asked


Is the infinite length of a diagonal of a square whose sides are one unit in length an example of this infinity contained by materialist geometry?

Which is obviously sarcasm as the diagonal is finite and equals the square root of two. Never saw an answer though. I rephrased the question


I will try it like this, is the square root of two an example of infinity contained by materialist geometry?

So, is it?



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 09:23 PM
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There are a number of different tunings that I can set in my old Kurzweil synthesizer. I have also created music that does not really map on any real tuning. Some people like it.

So I find this endless discussion of "eastern" vs "western" music an appalling case of mental masturbation. I like Cambodian music and I like Bach.

Sorry guys, there is no magic. Get on with it.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by DenyObfuscation
 


So you apparently haven't noticed me citing several scholars on this issue?

I.e. Philip Hugly and Charles Sayward's article on the square root of two is called:

Did the Greeks Discover the Irrational? Philosophy (1999), 74 : pp 169-176 The Royal Institute of Philosophy 1999


Philip Hugly and Charles Sayward Abstract A popular view is that the great discovery of Pythagoras was that there are irrational numbers, e.g., the positive square root of two. Against this it is argued that mathematics and geometry, together with their applications, do not show that there are irrational numbers or compel assent to that proposition.


Their answer is that the square root of two is illogical because it confuses infinite distance with geometric length.

A recent blog post asking if the square root of two is infinite

Now I think I already posted in this thread a math professor's pdf on why the square root of two is illogical -- a fundamental error of logic -- again for the same reason that Hugly and Sayward pointed out.

You can say there is no rational number for the arithmetic distance but logically that is not the same there is an irrational number for the geometric length.

Here's princeton math professor Edward Nelson on Eudoxus' discovery of the square root of two and its true implications

A NEWLY DISCOVERED TEXT BY RUSSELL ON PYTHAGORAS AND THE HISTORY OF MATHEMATICS

O.K. so Bertrand Russell stated that the real numbers are a convenient fiction. The irrational square root of two is an "error of logical type" as Russell exposed. Real mathematicians acknowledge, as Luigi Borzacchini does, that this is a deep disharmony.

Now the big point here -- is the missing ingredient of harmonics.

My point is that science is actually based on music theory -- hence the "music logarithmic spiral" based on transposing frequencies back into sound using a logarithmic based measurement. From the square root of two from music theory science works but the disharmony of science has grown exponentially -- through the ecological and social planetary crisis.

So obviously whether someone thinks science is moral or not is not relevant because clearly the "winners" aka scientists get to decide. So most of the mathematicians just say -- shut up the square root of two is the geometic length - it works. then if this is questioned you get kicked out of science.

But keep in mind that geometric growth started by Archytas based on the irrational number was then used to justify social inequalities -- based on Plato -- this is a whole worldview cosmology leading to capitalism and Wall St. from the exponential growth model as "harmony." -- I quote this from Michael Hudson, the economics professor.


They have been likened to the Free Masons, in that they served as a kind of Council of Foreign Relations or New World Order…. Archytas developed the musical scale into a political metaphor for the scales of justice. What gave music this imagery of social balance and just proportion was the ability of its mathematics of harmonic (“geometric”) proportions to serve as an analogy for how inequities of wealth and status rendered truly superior men equal in proportion to their virtue — which tended to reflect their wealth. By this circular logic the wealthy were enabled to rationalize their hereditary dominance over the rest of the population.


Professor Michael Hudson’s essay, “Music as an Analogy for Economic Order in Classical
Antiquity” in Jürgen Backhaus (ed.), Karl Bücher. Theory, History, Anthropology, Non-Market Economies
(Marburg:Metropolis Verlag, 2000): pp. 113-35

The Myth of Irrational Numbers by James J. Asher, award-winning math professor 2008 pdf


Any number that ends in a decimal that continues forever is called "irrational." The mathematics books on numbers claim that irrationals can also be located on the line and hence are in the set of real numbers. I don't think this is true. I will tell you why.



Irrationals are becoming numbers but they will never, for all of eternity, be numbers. Think about this: (s rt) 2 = 1.4142135... and the integers continue on forever approaching some value but never ever reaching it. Since (sq rt) 2 will never be a number because it is in continual motion moving towards some number, it is a non-number. Since it is a non-number, it cannot be located on the number line. I conclude then that only rational numbers have a location on the line and hence only rational numbers are real numbers.


Now replace "number line" with musical string or wavelength and the Western music tuning system, the foundation of Western math, has just been disproven.


The problem here, as I see it, is we have switched from a scale consisting of points on the line to a scale with lengths on the line.



Applying the Pythagorean theorem, 1(sq) + 1(sq) = 2 and the square root of 2 is an irrational of 1.4142135... which is a non-number. But, how can this be since we can measure the diagonal's length with a ruler and get a definite answer? The length of the diagonal is not becoming a number;

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posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 11:15 PM
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Beyond the Roof of the World: Music, Prayer, and Healing in the Pamir Mountains Oxford University Press, Nov 26, 2008 - Body, Mind & Spirit - 240 pages

googlebooks preview link




Mystical Intercession And Practical Prevention: Devotional Music And Healing In Badakhshan, Tajikistan Dissertation Benjamin D. Koen My Dissertation builds upon research completed for my master's thesis"Efficacy of Music-Prayer Dynamics In Healing and Health Maintenance: A Literature Review and Pilot Study." Both projects are part of a broader, long-term interdisciplinary collaboration aimed at investigating the relationship between music, prayer, and healing in both traditional and clinical contexts. I recently completed a field research project in Tajikistan, during which I collected both ethnomusicological and physiological data that form the basis of the dissertation. My dissertation introduces music-prayer dynamics as a concept in order to model the affective use of music and prayer in healing and in daily human experience. The dissertation will examine the music-prayer dynamics among the Pamiri people of Badakhshan, and analyze madoh devotional music as performed by heretofore-unrecorded master musicians and traditional healers. For several decades prior to the independence of Tajikistan in 1992, significant political changes forced the performance of madoh and traditional healing practices to go underground. While considering musical performance in a broader context of the local music-culture, the dissertation explores the recent practices of music and prayer in the daily life of the Pamiri people as well as in the main hospital of the region. Thus, traditional madoh is reconceptualized in the dissertation according to its current purpose and function as a genre. The dissertation proposes a culturally sensitive approach and builds a model of music-prayer dynamics that can be used in professional health care environments, and by individuals. Hence, the results of the dissertation also contribute to and fit within the framework of recent biomedical research concerning complementary and alternative therapies in medicine.


Ben Koen's Ph.D. thesis
edit on 8-6-2012 by fulllotusqigong because: (no reason given)


Detailed book review on Amazon of Ben Koen's Pamir mountains healing music book


Koen returns, in the last chapter, to the ontological principle of wholeness and introduces what he calls the Human Certainty Principle (HCP), which is a certainty or knowing that emerges in human consciousness from an unknowable and hence uncertain dimension, and which underlies, accompanies, or facilitates the experience of healing. It is a quality of calm certitude, he asserts, that is borne of the higher self, which by definition is linked to and expressive of unity and wholeness, which, in the author's words, "here has been described in part, by the term tâwhid, vahdate vojud, the matrix of all matter." Experiencing and conceptualizing music, prayer-meditation, and healing in the context of his study, Koen found out that balance equals health, imbalance equals illness and reestablishing a balance equals healing.


DEVOTIONAL MUSIC AND HEALING IN BADAKHSHAN, TAJIKISTAN: PREVENTIVE AND CURATIVE PRACTICES DISSERTATION pdf
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posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 11:52 PM
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posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 07:34 AM
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reply to post by fulllotusqigong
 




So you apparently haven't noticed me citing several scholars on this issue?

Yes I have, it's inescapable. I don't care what they have to say, I'm asking YOU ONE SIMPLE QUESTION. A simple yes or no would suffice. No offense but your responses tend to be unnecssarily cumbersome. TMI !!!



Their answer is that the square root of two is illogical because it confuses infinite distance with geometric length.

Not asking if it's illogical, is it an example of "infinity contained by materialist geometry"? But on that subject what exactly is meant by "infinite distance"? How about the sqrt of 20, is that finite? Divide 7 by 3, how does that work out? Should we throw away 7 or 3, or perhaps throw out division completely or all math as it's obviously of the devil?

Why do you have such a problem with the sqrt of 2 which is much more precise than your contention that 5/4 cubed to 125/64=2? That seems strange.



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by DenyObfuscation
 


The issue is not precision but rather accuracy.

So if the intention is to "contain infinity" then that is inaccurate.

So the more "precise" we make the measurements entails using higher logarithmic dimensions with more destructive technology.

That is how the "music logarithmic spiral" works.

As I've stated repeatedly this goes back to the "symbolic revolution" exposed by Dr. Jacques Cauvin -- starting around 10,000 BC.

So a "yes or no" answer is symptomatic of a left brain dualism and is therefore inaccurate.

It's censorship to demand someone to only answer "yes" or "no" when obviously you are asking a question that you think you already know the answer to.

Asking a question when you think you already know the answer is just trying to trick someone! haha. But actually the trick is that our true self is formless awareness that is not contained materialisticly.

So what is lost is that complementary opposite resonance that is infinite -- this is listening as the dominant mode of perception to activate the right brain visualization for healing energy.

When humans were primates - hominids living the forest then our dominant perception was listening and this activates the vagus nerve to build up our lower body serotonin jing energy bypassing the blood brain barrier through ultrasound and infrasound nonlinear harmonic resonance.

So then the pineal gland is opened up to create electromagnetic healing energy as consciousness that merges with the photons of the sun and is powered by the electromagnetic energy for telepathy, precognition, astral travel, levitation.

The quantum frequency superposition as time uncertainty means that the future and the past are at the same time as the present. I posted the quantum gravity lecture discussing this but no one even commented on it! haha. It was from the Perimeter Institute in Canada and a continuation of Dr. Renate Loll's research. You can take her Quantum gravity class here by video

So the deal is that real physicists admit that 98% of the universe remains unknown and that the basic models of logic and math are wrong.

Quantum math and quantum logic have rediscovered what the ancients knew was real through non-commutative harmonics that have no ending and no beginning.



O.K. consider the left hand -- it beats a regular rhythm. Try it -- using both hands for creating polyrhythm.

The left hand keeps the "time" as the right brain while frequency modulation is more of a left brain phenomenon.

So trance music is more right brain because it is about time synchronization which then creates a spacetime vortex.

O.K. the square root of two comes from wrong music theory. That's why it's inaccurate.

Science obviously "works" -- but for whom? Earth Wavers On The Edge Of Dangerous Tipping Point by Beth Buczynski June 8, 2012

Trying to make moralistic claims are completely idiotic when science inherently is destroying Earth due to the wrong mathematics!

So yes the square root of two is "more precise" but it is inaccurate because it's based on the wrong foundation -- I call this the rotten root.

Surd literally means to listen so the irrational number is absurd -- out of listening. No longer listening to the truth of reality.


The results showed the presence of delta activity in human hippocampal spontaneous EEG also during wakefulness. The activity in the delta range exhibited a peculiar bimodal distribution, namely a low frequency non-oscillatory activity (up to 2 Hz) synchronized between hemispheres mainly during wake and REM sleep, and a faster oscillatory rhythm (2-4 Hz). The latter was less synchronized between the hippocampi and seemed reminiscent of animal RSA (rhythmic slow activity). Notably, the low-delta activity showed high inter-hemispheric hippocampal coherence during REM sleep and, to a lesser extent, during wakefulness, paralleled by a (unexpected) decrease of coherence during NREM sleep. Therefore, low-delta hippocampal state-dependent synchronization starkly contrasts with neocortical behavior in the same frequency range. Further studies might shed light on the role of these low frequency rhythms in the encoding processes during wakefulness and in the consolidation processes during subsequent sleep.


Neuroimage. 2012 Mar;60(1):497-504. Epub 2011 Dec 8. Slow EEG rhythms and inter-hemispheric synchronization across sleep and wakefulness in the human hippocampus.

When the Moon is full -- 3 days before and after the magnetic brain force is ten times stronger. This is unknown by the left-brain dominance.
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posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 01:13 PM
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So then G to C as 4/3 can not be used as the Perfect Fourth. Why? Because it is inconsistent with the "root" frequency as 1 or 100 hertz.


But, in my example we can build the whole chromatic scale from one note. So, naturally the fourth doesn't occur in the harmonic series, true, neither do some other notes but we can build one note to another to arrive at the fourth.



In other words in the same scale if G to C is 4/3 then why is G to C as 4/3 in the harmonic series not allowed for defining the Perfect Fourth? Earlier in the thread this was brought up.


Because as I said before, you are measuring one thing against another type of thing. Like using a weight scale to measure speed. For example, the Cent system was invented so that notes would have an equal relation between each other however, it has no bearing on the reality of sound. As pitch goes up, so do the Hertz, and not in even increments like Cents. If you were to use Cents, your ratios would be even more impossible. Weird things happen with a string, you might think tapped harmonics (the bell like tones you can get by lightly touching the strings a certain nodes) would move up the string in a fashion similar to the fretted notes, but they do not. We can't argue about it because it just is. The note naming, western music theory system is imperfect.



So instead the subharmonic of 1 as the Harmonic Series or 100 Hertz is used as 2/3x or C to F in the opposite direction -- a longer wavelength.


We can do this in theory, using math but in reality, if our root note is 100hz, then that's the lowest note we hear, harmonic or not. However, using my circle of fifths formula we can find that fourth note.



So you're saying we can just ignore that it is C to F as the Perfect Fifth in one direction while it's C to G as the perfect Fifth in the other direction?

We can ignore or invite it over for dinner. It is that way due to the agreed upon imperfect music theory structure. Doesn't change the nature of sound. This would not be an issue if we had a different name for every note, even the same note in another octave. That's why I said your beef seems to be more about music theory.



You asked me if this meant that the subharmonic was a subset of 3/2x and I answered yes. Why? Because harmonics are perceived as pitch intervals and not just Hertz frequency.

Not quite, I asked for clarity on what you call a subharmonic, so we're on the same page. Had nothing to do with any particular ratio. Harmonics are Hertz frequencies, they are additional sound. When I say the third (or second depending on how you view it) overtone/harmonic is a fifth, that sound is there, not just 'perceived'. Now of course, some instruments/sources have very strong fundamentals and their harmonic overtones are subdued. You could generate a pure sine wave on the computer and yes, it would not have those overtones. It would also be artificial, so I am referring to sources found in everyday. A cymbal however, has multiple, clashing tones/overtones and is worthless in this type of discussion.



132 plus 66 = 198 Hertz. Yep it's almost the same as 200 Hertz. So you have chosen to wave off this difference as inconsequential


Again, not quite. I said:



and the next is the fifth of 198hz, which is not perfectly C but then we're dealing with nice round numbers for simplicity's sake.

and


give or take a couple hertz as I had to round them down in reducing the freqs to lower octaves for easier workability


I rounded them down because having notes like 104.4664325hz would be awful hard to follow, yes? One thing we have to consider is that until very, very recently mankind had no way of measuring sound accurately, 2hz would have been pretty impressive.

To Buddhasystem:
I like all kinds of music and I think the more you listen the easier it is to enjoy what some find difficult. Western ears cringe at the microtonal Indian and Balinese music until you take time to really listen. I often say our ears are more like muscles and need exercised and trained. Certainly no one should ever turn it into a 'this is better than that', it is like arguing purple over green.



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by DenyObfuscation
 



the magnitudes (properties) of classical physics can be determined at any time with any required precision. On the other hand, quantum-mechanical entities are complementary in the sense that at a given time they are able to possess only some of their possible properties. Now classical mechanics is a special case of quantum mechanics, which means that all the objects of the macroscopic level obey the laws of quantum mechanics. Hence, we must re-interpret the signs of classical physics as designating properties, which apply to their objects (the objects of the macroscopic level) in almost all circumstances (whereas according to classical physics they apply strictly in all circumstances). This means that having adopted quantum mechanics we must drop the classical interpretation of classical physics (Feyerabend 1975)


Real ism, rationalism and scientific method Philosophical papers Volume 1 PAUL K. FEYERABEND pdf
edit on 9-6-2012 by fulllotusqigong because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 01:25 PM
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It's censorship to demand someone to only answer "yes" or "no" when obviously you are asking a question that you think you already know the answer to.


I can honestly say that anytime I asked you for a simple 'yes' or 'no' it wasn't because I knew the answer (not that I didn't have my opinion). If I asked you it was because I wasn't sure where you stood



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by UncleV
 


Yeah -- so it's different than DenyO.

Still Hertz is a dualistic left-brain approach to sound. haha.

Try memorizing Bach's Italian Concerto in F Major -- the 2nd movement.

If you can memorize it -- it's 60 beats per minute -- then the listening required will increase your alpha brain waves thereby increasing your serotonin levels. Time slows down.


Genetic Determinants of Time Perception Mediated by the ... www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0012650 by OV Sysoeva - 2010 - Cited by 15 - Related articles Genetic Determinants of Time Perception Mediated by the Serotonergic System ... variant of MAOA VNTR gene compared with 'high expression' variant, and 3)



the representation of longer durations is more dependent upon other cognitive processes, such as attention and memory, and therefore influenced by many other substances. There are also quite consistent findings that the representation of intervals s is associated with serotonergic (5-HT) activity [9]–[12].



Changes of the neurotransmitter serotonin but not of hormones during short time music perception



The 5-HT content of platelets, however, was higher during the perception of pleasant music as compared to the perception of unpleasant music indicating an increased release of 5-HT during unpleasant music (748 mg/109 platelets vs. 699 ng/109 platelets; p < 0.014). The difference of the 5-HT level was significantly correlated to the score of unpleasantness as rated by the subjects. Our data suggest that perception of unpleasant music induces increased release and decreased peripheral and possibly also central intracellular content of 5-HT.





Demkov (22), succeeded in avoiding the deficiencies in the commutation rules of the quantum mechanical ladder operators for the anisotropic oscillator — in particular for the case of a 2:1 frequency ratio — by dividing the states into two groups (of even and odd total energy, respectively) each one of which belonged to a unitary unimodular symmetry group.


Symmetry and Degeneracy HAROLD V. McINTOSH Group Theory and its Applications, Vol. 2, pp. 75-144, c Academic Press, Inc., New York and London, 1971. pdf
edit on 9-6-2012 by fulllotusqigong because: (no reason given)



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