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You're wondering if the octave as hertz is real or not or whether the octave should be defined by the spiral of fifths expanding the octave value or decreasing it....but the real issue is the noise between the two and the subharmonic beats as a significant amplitude resonance.
Originally posted by UncleV
You're wondering if the octave as hertz is real or not or whether the octave should be defined by the spiral of fifths expanding the octave value or decreasing it....but the real issue is the noise between the two and the subharmonic beats as a significant amplitude resonance.
No, I don't wonder that at all. I asked a simple question and as has been the problem consistently through this thread, your answers are so cluttered. Forget this nonsense of 'hertz are measured in time and as the frequency goes up time reverses into zero amplitude phase reduction bipolar flippity doo'. Really.
Ok, time, let's say a second. Let's all agree on a second. Now, two frequencies occur, let's say 440hz and 660hz at the same time in that second. Still a second right?, nothing up my sleeve as you might say. Time went nowhere but a second forward. Keep it simple.
The octave is not, nor should it ever be determine by a spiral of fifths, Pythagorean ratios, blah blah. It is so simple and you consistently complicate it with woo. An octave is exactly double or half of any given frequency. It stands alone. A fifth of that note can be found in the third overtone as nature itself gives us. No ratios, just is.
Now if you could answer my question - do you agree with the above statement about the octave? Hint: it is a yes/no
I have been tempted to make a comparison with the cycle of fifths and the Platonic Year in spite of the differences in unite. It is in conflict with basic scientific principle to mix different set of units such as years and notes. This bold assumption have caused some legitimate reaction from readers. Dennis Rossi writes, that precession of the equinoxes was discovered in China at a later date. It is attributed to Yu Xi in 320 CE. He found a value of about 72 arc seconds per year or two times the value found by Hipparchus, the Greek astronomer. However, "astronomers as early as the Han era noted that winter solstice shifted with respect to lunar lodges". I did tried to calculate the cycle of fifths with a lunar year instead of solar year but the numbers did not fit anyway. So far I am not able to produce a valid explanation of how the ancient Chinese did tuned their fundamental tone, Kung, to the Platonic Year.
Frequencies not expressed in hertz Even higher frequencies are believed to occur naturally, in the frequencies of the quantum-mechanical wave functions of high-energy (or, equivalently, massive) particles, although these are not directly observable, and must be inferred from their interactions with other phenomena. For practical reasons, these are typically not expressed in hertz, but in terms of the equivalent quantum energy, which is proportional to the frequency by the factor of Planck's constant.
That is a common misconception. 1 Hz = 1 of anything / second Most people automatically assume: 1 Hz = 1 full cycle / second The unit "Hz" does not specify a unit for its numerator. Therefore, google will automatically convert Hz with a 1:1 ratio to any unit / second. You must specify a numerator for Hz if you wish for google not to assume your units. For example, enter "360 degrees * Hz to radians per second" into google. As you can see, we have specified a unit (degrees) for the numerator, and google handles it accordinly, yielding the decimal form of 2pi.
This means that the fundamental particles seem to carry a "personal-clock" which shows the "proper time" in their own frame, a "local standard of time" irrespective of their motion with respect to any observer anywhere in the universe and they live only according to this local clock. This requires that the fundamental particles must have some periodicity within their structure which helps them to reckon time in their own proper frames. [...] POSTULATE I: Every micro particle is endowed with two types of motion, an Internal Motion and an External Motion. The velocities, kinetic energies and momenta of these particles that we normally observe and measure in our laboratories are only those corresponding to their external motion.[...] POSTULATE IV: The magnitude of the instantaneous velocity of the particle, which is the resultant of its internal and external velocities, is always equal to 'c', the velocity of light in free space.[...] When a particle (say, an electron) is "at rest", it has no external motion but according to postulate I, it has internal motion. This is a circular motion with a radius ao and instantaneous velocity 'c', the velocity of light in air or vacuum. Thus the fundamental particles in this model does not have a state of rest as defined in the classical mechanics.[...] Elementary particles are generally assumed to comprise at least two constituents. These constituents have no mass and orbit each other with the speed of light. If now an elementary particle is set to motion, but its constituents still have to maintain the speed of light in relation to a fixed reference frame, the orbital frequency is reduced in the way predicted by the theory of relativity. This behaviour propagates to any higher structure in motion....What is intriguing is that matter’s most basic building blocks, the elementary particles, all have non-zero spin, intrinsic angular momentum, which seems to imply that they all must have some sort of intrinsic dynamics. Hypothetical structures which do not have internal dynamics, such as point particles and hard spheres, do not exist. So what is matter really made of then? In the Dirac theory, the electron is like electromagnetic energy quivering at light speed, just like a photon in a box [5]. If really so, matter is light. [...]You would have to define one revolution of the windmill as "one second" no matter how fast or slow it revolved. Indeed, if you tried to measure the speed of the wind using a windmill as a clock you will always get the same result-- i.e. a constant speed. If all clocks are, in fact, made up of "helicoid particles," then that means that the motions of the clocks are an amplified version of the motions of the particles, so clocks spin slower when the particles that make them up spin slower. When the particles slow down, the clocks slow down. Because all sub-atomic particles "spin" in electromagnetic fields the way that windmills spin in the wind, the speed of propagation of any electromagnetic field (i.e. the speed of light) is constant.
So then when this thread discussed the golden ratio -- I pointed out that in chaos nonlinear resonance the natural rational fractions are considered too powerful -- they resonate too much. So the Golden Ratio is used since it is the slowest to geometrically converge.
But when talking about consciousness as alchemy we are not talking about geometry converging -- instead it's an infinite process of no beginning and no ending.
Originally posted by Americanist
reply to post by fulllotusqigong
So then when this thread discussed the golden ratio -- I pointed out that in chaos nonlinear resonance the natural rational fractions are considered too powerful -- they resonate too much. So the Golden Ratio is used since it is the slowest to geometrically converge.
But when talking about consciousness as alchemy we are not talking about geometry converging -- instead it's an infinite process of no beginning and no ending.
To clarify, there is a convergence to create mass... This is what our reality including music is based on. Adobe Photoshop 'snap-to' guides were cited as example of geometric convergence. Now the infinite cycles vector-based structures. This being the system residing within consciousness.
You might break down framework for once, or you're just going to end up repeating yourself as we've already witnessed.
And to be honest... Meditating for months in a seated position where no one eats, sleeps, or drinks isn't practical considering our World is not at the stage of extended leisure.edit on 8-3-2012 by Americanist because: (no reason given)
According to the theory of relativity and according to observations, adding movement to any massive object makes it more massive. Some portion of the massiveness of any moving object must therefore be due only to movement. All the components of mass are in a jumble of related motion. Protons, neutrons, electrons, atoms, and molecules comprise mass; they all vibrate and orbit and whiz around inside of mass. So rest mass can only be imagined, never really measured, but most scientists assume that there is a fundamental kind of massiveness called rest mass. So, now we have massiveness which is due only to movement, and another fundamental kind of mass called rest mass. We have a real problem now. How can we tell the difference between movement mass and rest mass? What fundamental thing can we measure so that we can say for sure that this is movement mass and this is rest mass. We might measure the overall relative movement of a chunck of mass; calculate what mass would be due to that movement; subtract that from the total mass and say what's left is rest mass. But then what about the vibration of the molecules; that's movement. What about the electrons whizzing about protons and such. All those movements can't really be known except, maybe, in a statistical sense. But wait; is this even reasonable? Probably not! It is not reasonable in nature that there could be two fundamentally different kinds of massiveness. We know for sure that we have mass that is due only to movement. However, we do not know and can never measure, that kind of mass known as rest mass. Maybe it is that all of massiveness is really due only to the movement of some fundamental thing in nature. With that idea we are off the hook. Everything now makes sense. We have only one kind of mass; it is comprised only of the movement of some fundamental thing in nature.
There is another law of conservation that is required when doing mechanics, conservation of momentum. It is somewhat variable because the same amount of momentum can be found in either a small mass with a high velocity or a large mass with a low velocity. The amount of energy is different between the first example and the next. The exception to this case occurs with elementary particles that are massless. The photon is one of these particles. In this case a photon with twice the energy has twice the momentum, E=cp. If this law could be applied to all particles it would greatly simplify particle physics. Unfortunately, a particle with rest mass can have a variable amount of momentum, just like our everyday experience would tell us. A thought experiment is useful in potentially changing this view. [...] One result of using momentum formulas is that it shows that mass is not a fundamental property. Momentum is fundamental. For quantum physics, momentum, p and dimension, x are fundamental. (Note: this x implies all dimensions, normal and hyperspace ones, it is different from above where x referred specifically to a normal space dimension. Historical use of x in both of these cases may lead to some confusion. It is hoped that the context they are used makes it clear if x is a general dimension or the normal space dimension.) In fact, special and general relativity effects will be shown to derive from quantum physics. Lorentz contraction and a mass's effect of curving space, creating gravity, are basically the same things. Both effects derive from x p = n h / 2 . A new physical law is postulated: All known particles are elements of momentum moving at a velocity c. This is the result of extending a quantum theory formula for massless particles to all particles, p=h/2l . The new postulate is known to be true for photons. They have no mass, move at the speed of light and have momentum. At first, the new postulate seems to be untrue for particles with a rest mass. The momentum associated with a particle has a value directly related to the particle's velocity. This statement seems true because the present definition of momentum, p, includes only the three normal spatial dimensions, x, y, z. This new postulate applies for p traveling along all dimensions, including hyperspace ones. The value of a particle's momentum in hyperspace, its rest momentum, is just a particle's mass times the speed of light, p=m0c. This extension is based on special relativity and uses SR equation for mass. [...]
What one also finds is that the algebraic time dependent equations do not contain the quantum potential explicitly. Recall it is this strange potential that carries the non-local implications for entangled particles. However the potential re-appears when we project onto the shadow manifold. Thus it is not an intrinsic property of the quantum system but only arises from the projection. In this sense it shares a property with the gravitational potential which arises when the geodesics of curved space-time are projected into a flat space-time. The big difference is that gravitation is universal whereas each quantum potential only applies to its own group of entangled particles. Particles not involved in this entanglement do not see the quantum potential of this particular group.
Here rather than starting with an a priori given phase space manifold, we use the algebra of operators to abstract the underlying manifold. This works beautifully when the algebra is commutative but not when in is non-commutative. In this case there is no unique underlying manifold, but we are forced to introduce the concept of “shadow manifolds”. This seems to be exactly what is happening when we project the algebraic form of the dynamical equations into a subalgebra, the choice of the projection determining which shadow manifold is being chosen. All this supports the notion that the geometry underlying quantum mechanics is a non-commutative geometry [16]. It fits neatly into the philosophical framework of the implicate/explicate order introduced by Bohm [17].
Originally posted by DenyObfuscation
reply to post by fulllotusqigong
The commutative property in math has nothing to do with intervals in a musical scale. To call the relationship between two different intervals noncommutative is as relevant as pointing out the fact that neither interval possesses even a single flavor of the skittles rainbow. Why would you do this?edit on 8-3-2012 by DenyObfuscation because: typing while levitating
In mathematics, a binary operation is commutative if changing the order of the operands does not change the end result...In mathematics, an operand is the object of a mathematical operation, a quantity on which an operation is performed.[1]....The Egyptians used the commutative property of multiplication to simplify computing products.[6][7] Euclid is known to have assumed the commutative property of multiplication in his book Elements.[8]
According to the uncertainty principle of Heisenberg, if the two operators representing a pair of variables do not commute, then that pair of variables are mutually complementary, which means they cannot be simultaneously measured or known precisely. For example, the position and the linear momentum of a particle are represented respectively (in the x-direction) by the operators x and (ħ/i)d/dx (where ħ is the reduced Planck constant). This is the same example except for the constant (ħ/i), so again the operators do not commute and the physical meaning is that the position and linear momentum in a given direction are complementary.
In quantum mechanics what we do have is a field algebra defined in terms of the operators. Notice further that all the symmetries of the system are carried by the operators. What we do not have is the properties of the manifold, i.e. the phase space that can carry this algebraic structure. Can we obtain the properties of this manifold from the algebra? This is where we hit a snag. If we have a non-commutative structure then there is no single, unique underlying manifold.
Originally posted by Mary Rose
Originally posted by Mary Rose
Instead of (from your OP):
Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
Then I discovered the Actual Matrix Plan conspiracy based on the same conspiracy -- corroborating my discovery -- only supporting it.
Originally posted by Mary Rose
Did you mean to say:
"Then I discovered the Actual Matrix Plan conspiracy based on the same conspiracy -- corroborating my discovery."
OR, perhaps you meant to say what you said, and what you were saying was, your discovery was 100% corroborated by the Actual Matrix Plan - no exceptions?
Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
So I agree that according to standard grammatic structure what I wrote does not make sense -- but what I wrote is not standard logic and so I used non-standard grammar.
Originally posted by Mary Rose
Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
So I agree that according to standard grammatic structure what I wrote does not make sense -- but what I wrote is not standard logic and so I used non-standard grammar.
I disagree. According to the interpretation of what you wrote that I posted this time, which hadn't dawned on me until then, having puzzled about it and asking repeatedly and getting unsatisfactory answers, there's nothing non-standard. It was just that it was easily misunderstood and it would have been better not to word the sentence that way.
The rest of your post about logic, paradox, a book that's hard to read, etc., etc. is irrelevant if you're agreeing that that's what you meant. The part about the Freemasons sitting in full lotus yoga position as pyramid power to create the All-Seeing Eye comes right after the sentence in question. That's where the point is conveyed.
"""The Khufu Pyramid Stone Quartz Frequencies ... In the 1920's it was discovered that quartz crystals resonate at 32,768 khz. Seeing that the Great Pyramid of Khufu or Cheops Pyramid, is made mostly of limestone, which stone crystal matrix is mostly quartz, I developed a premise that the whole pyramid was set to resonance with some unique technique I named in the file We find that the quartz frequency 32,768 khz is a multiple of 2. We can then use base 2 and make two separate interpretations about the resonant frequencies of vibrating quartz. Moreover, we have an insight into what the operators of the Khufu pyramid might have experienced: Source of frequencies Divided down, we find the base number is 2 Multiples of 2 are 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192, 16384, 32768, the fractal frequency of quartz.So we might conclude that quartz resonates as a binary crystal, meaning that its resonant frequency is a multiple of its base 2.""" """An engineer named Tom Danley who has an interest in sonic phenomena made some intriguing discoveries relating to the great pyramid, especially the Kings Chamber. He measured its dimensions and those of five rooms, (the so called relieving chambers) located above the Kings Chamber. He then installed powerful amplifiers and speakers inside the Kings Chamber, created sounds and measured the resulting standing frequencies generated within the five chambers. The frequency measured within the rooms was 16Hz, which is below the range of human hearing; from this he created a fascinating theory. This was: the dimensions of the pyramid, plus the materials from which it is made, combined with the empty sarcophagus within the kings chamber were designed for one specific purpose. This was to amplify whatever sounds were made within the Kings Chamber....Tom detected a distinct pattern to the frequencies; this pattern was identical to the tonal structure of the F-sharp chord. The ancient Egyptians in their texts tell us that they believed F-sharp to be the harmonic frequency of our planet. """
14. Nerves of the Heart Draw Us into the Borderland of Consciousness Undoubtedly the near-death conditions of danger, imperiled cerebral blood flow and cardio-respiratory crisis heighten cardio-respiratory afferent nerve activity. Autonomic nervous system afferent fibers transmit information from stretch, pressure, mechanical, and chemical receptors located within the heart, vascular and pulmonary systems. These impulses are conveyed to the brainstem principally by the vagus, but also by the glossopharygeal and trigeminal nerves. The cervical portion of the vagus is made up of approximately 80% visceral afferents (Agostoni et al., 1957). Vagal afferents alone robustly bring the brain into REM consciousness. Electrical stimulation of the vagus in animals triggers the visual, cortical and atonic physiological facets of REM consciousness (Puizillout and Foutz, 1976, Valdes- Cruz et al., 2002, Fernandez-Guardiola et al., 1999, Puizillout and Foutz, 1977, Foutz et al., 1974). The transition from waking to REM can be so brisk that it spawned the terms "reflex REM narcolepsy" (Puizillout and Foutz, 1977) and "narcoleptic reflex" (Valdes-Cruz et al., 2002). This rapid transition between conscious states is the very condition that in humans causes REM and waking consciousness to merge (Takeuchi et al., 1992). When the vagus nerve is stimulated in humans to treat epilepsy, REM intrudes into non-REM consciousness (Malow et al., 2001). Furthermore, the cardio-respiratory instability arising from an autoimmune attack on cardiac, vascular and respiratory autonomic nerve fibers in patients with Guillain-Barré syndrome leads to florid intrusion of REM consciousness (Cochen et al., 2005). How can the vagus nerve shift consciousness? Vagal afferents project upwards to synapse within the medullary nucleus tractus solitarius. From here, neural fibers rise to the pontine parabrachial nuclear complex (PBN) that is the principal relay for ascending cardio-respiratory afferents to the forebrain. In addition, the nucleus tractus solitarius and the PBN reciprocally connect with cholinergic REM structures (Semba and Fibiger, 1992, Quattrochi et al., 1998). The PBN region forms an intersection where neurons promoting and functioning specifically during REM consciousness (Datta et al., 1992, Datta and Hobson, 1994) intermingle with neurons participating in cardio-respiratory function (Chamberlin and Saper, 1992, Chamberlin and Saper, 1994). Although these relationships lead to a connection between fight-or-flight, consciousness, and cardio-respiratory crisis, the full story of vagal afferents and REM consciousness remains to be seen. What is clear is that through its nerves the heart can cause REM consciousness, thereby transporting consciousness to unexpected places.
If C to G is 2:3 then G to C is 3:2 -- that is commutative.
If C to G is 2:3 then G to C is 3:4 - that is noncommutative by number.
So you stated that the C was a different octave -- but this is not true.
If G to C is 4:3 then C to G is 2:3 -- it's the "same" C and it's noncommutative.
A second is measured by PI which is from the Solar Calendar:
Noncommutative is inapplicable to the repetitive use of symbols in the ascending scale. They do not maintain equivalent value.
Originally posted by Americanist
reply to post by rwfresh
Truth arrives as perception grows. Without a connection to each other the main role for individual behavior is observe, record, and translate forming better takes. Eventually the process cycles faster, becomes more fluid, and expansion is achieved via sacrifice... The act of giving is mirrored as understanding/ enlightenment.
Originally posted by rwfresh
Yes you are right. But everything is literally illusion/delusion. That is not some kind of value judgement. Making a delusional statement in the context of delusion is valueless.. If we understand that the only thing of any Real value is that which is Real. Which is Truth.
So i guess people with no legs or a crippled spine will have to evolve or re-incarnate first. Maybe that is the case.
Yeah it is. What is impossible is for it to REALLY admit, and as a result KNOW that mind is delusional. That true self is not Truth. And yeah.. big whoopie.. everything is illusion but Truth, which we are not and never can be.. but it is hahahahahaha
The full lotus is the tetrahedron pyramid power as the most simple and therefore most powerful three dimension geometry of complementary opposite harmonics. In the West we are taught that the tetrahedron is based on the equilateral irrational triangles -- but in reality Number is based on complementary opposites -- so the geometry resonates into the quantum holographic rainbow vortex light as consciousness and this process goes on eternally. So the perineum takes in the external electrochemical Lunar energy as "yin chi" and then the heart transforms the "yin chi" through the "yang chi" of the Solar blood electromagnetic energy -- and it is then transmitted back out externally through the pineal gland as the holographic rainbow entangled quantum biophoton energy -- the spirit consciousness.
Is truth sitting in a full lotus? Now that is delusional.
And you know what it's a great idea! That's why some people sell zafu for the express purpose of sitting full lotus in front of the 21st century idiot box! Anyway.. i am really grateful for your post. And in the context of time i think you've got some totally original and new insights to what is going on here in this non-reality. And i did buy the qigong book and i'm reading it and longing to practice because of this thread and particularly what you have said and presented. I find it inspiring and resonate with a lot of it. But i have to follow it, by nature to the person who is presenting the ideas because that is where the meaning comes from. You.
Peace!