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The Devil's Chord: The conspiracy to open the portal of consciousness and mystery of the octave

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posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by DenyObfuscation
reply to post by fulllotusqigong
 


My basic question is about chemistry, not politics. Can qigong cause hallucination or not?


Consciousness is a hallucination according to Western rational scientific philosophy. So we are talking about nonwestern music as the secret source of qigong which is a nonwestern philosophy. So according to Western science consciousness is a chemical byproduct of the brain and so it is a hallucination of the brain but in nonwestern philosophy consciousness can not be seen. So no consciousness is not a hallucination since it can not be seen according to qigong and nonwestern philosophy -- called "nondualism." Consciousness can be logically inferred -- that's why it's called the Emptiness in qigong.

Can you see consciousness? Nope. So it can not be a hallucination. haha.

Does consciousness create light? Yes. This is called the rainbow astral body in nonwestern philosophy - it's also the rainbow body found in quantum diffraction gradients, as documented by Dr. Mae-Wan Ho in her "quantum jazz" experiments.

From the quantum light then there are paranormal phenomenon as the quantum physicists I've referred to have indicated -- this is the holographic paradigm of quantum relativity. Of course it remains unproven by Western science. haha.




posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by 00bil

Originally posted by the_philth

Originally posted by Starchild23
Can anyone tell me exactly what notes are used in The Devil's Chord? I'm working on some concepts involving vibration and spiritual awakening, and I want to see if the chord would support my theory-in-progress...

For your spiritual journery, I'd suggest you research/Google the Solfeggio Frequencies and/or why 432 Hz is important...

The diminished fifth or the "devils chord" isn't really a chord per se; you can use it in all keys.
For instance, in the key of G, the chord would be made up of the One, the Flat Fifth and the One octave - G, D♭(flat) and high G.

Like I said, you can use this chord in any key by using the One, ♭Five and One (octave = 8va), just as long as you flatten that fifth.

Tritone in C would be = C, G♭, C
Tritone in A would be = A, E♭, E
Tritone in F would be = F, B (or C♭), F


The diminished/flatted fifth, augmented/raised fourth and tritone are all names for this interval in western (12tet) music. I'm sure the chord that was banned by the Council of Trent wasn't just the tritone interval, it was the diminished chord itself (unison-minor third-diminished fifth, e.g. A-C-Eb). In western 12tet there is no difference in terms of frequency between the diminished fifth and augmented fourth intervals (both 600 cents, exactly half an octave). But in other western and Asian tuning systems the augmented fourth and diminished fifth have different ratios, and they exist as separate intervals in the harmonic series. You can't really play any of the intervals on a guitar without tuning slightly sharp or flat of many of the 12 chromatic notes, even the perfect fifths are a little bit out (in 12tet they are exactly 700c but the 3:2 ratio is 702).

As a musician I've played all sorts of instruments over the years as learning about music (first Western music theory then learning the physics of sound more generally) lets you find the notes on any instrument. With the exception of guitar/bass/mandolin etc I'm not very good technically but using some instruments, (e.g. violins where you can pick the pitches by ear as they're fretless) you can play all sorts of intervals that generate every type of emotional response to the 'open' ear.

In other ways, I use music in rituals to heighten the emotional input (as magic is all about the power of pure emotion). Knowing the effects music and sound more generally can have on people and on nature, I'm prepared to go with some of what the OP is saying. Unfortunately his writing style (the way of presenting what he said) confused me


Excellent answer! Yes this is why the violin was considered to play the Devil's Music - since it can play the natural overtone harmonics out of tune with Western tuning and then this leads to the Tarentella trance and gypsy trance music, etc.




posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by Mary Rose

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
this also opens up the rainbow vortex


Is there any relationship between this vortex and Marko Rodin's vortex math?


Yeah Rodin's geometric form is a torus -- which is the quantum chaos "double scroll ring" I had referred to previously in the work of Art Winifree for the secret nonlinear harmonic oscillation of the heart.

The heart is the secret electromagnetic brain spiritual emotional healing center that opens up the pineal gland -- it is the secret of the soul and the holographic singularity of the universe.

Art Winifree documents a singularity in the heart -- which means infinity -- this is also what CIA mind control scientist Dr. Andrija Puharich relies on for his ELF brain control and Earth ionsophere control technology -- Project HAARP. Puharich, of course, stated that slight changes in the ELF frequency were deterimental to humans -- and so it's a very fragile thing to work with. Then he claimed the CIA was out to get him because he tried to leave the CIA which you can not do. Then he died in a mysterous fire.

I corresponded with Persinger -- and he said Puharich's work was underappreciated and then he did a telepathy experiment the same that Puharich recommends in the book I was citing on ELF magnetic proton electron quantum relativity and quantum chaos. So Persinger claims to have proven telepathy by using a 7 hertz ELF wave on the right hemisphere.

So the thing about Chaos is that it's time based so really it can not be seen as a number. Consciousness as a singularity must be listened to as the source of sound or time - not by geometry. That is the basic Western mind control -- to measure time by space. So even chaos and Mark Rodin rely on symmetric based math -- the commutative property for Rodin's gematria.

That's why Rodin is not really challenging the Western mind control science.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by fulllotusqigong
 


I'll check back when you're done trippin'.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 07:52 PM
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reply to post by DenyObfuscation
 


Haha. So you're either joking or making a claim about me personally without any evidence. haha.

Either way it's hilarious.

If you don't want to talk about consciousness that's o.k. or if you don't want to talk about nonwestern cultures that's o.k. also. But that's what this thread is about -- sorry to burst your bubble.

I recommend watching this documentary to expose the deep mind control going on in Western cultural -- genocidal mind control. So if you talk about spirituality and consciousness and nonwestern culture people in the West go into denial and then get angry, etc. It's pretty amazing what this Church minister discovered and what happened when he exposed the truth about Western culture in North America.


We were told that love was wrong...it was the Devil's work.




edit on 25-2-2012 by fulllotusqigong because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 08:08 PM
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reply to post by fulllotusqigong
 





If you don't want to talk about consciousness that's o.k. or if you don't want to talk about nonwestern cultures that's o.k. also. But that's what this thread is about -- sorry to burst your bubble.


The thing is, it's impossible to talk with you. I tried 7 ways from sunday to ask the same question to no avail. It just seems you either don't get it or intentionally run circles around the answer. I can't communicate like that.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by DenyObfuscation
reply to post by fulllotusqigong
 





If you don't want to talk about consciousness that's o.k. or if you don't want to talk about nonwestern cultures that's o.k. also. But that's what this thread is about -- sorry to burst your bubble.


The thing is, it's impossible to talk with you. I tried 7 ways from sunday to ask the same question to no avail. It just seems you either don't get it or intentionally run circles around the answer. I can't communicate like that.


Funny because I've communicated with tons of people online for years. haha. There's several people on this thread with whom I've communicated successfully. Also I do have a masters degree from the University of Minnesota which, of course, required lots of communication.

I used to be a paid op-ed writer for a newspaper serving 50,000 people at the U of MN and the staff always "fact-checked" my op-ed writing.

Yeah I realize this topic is a conceptual jump or leap for a lot of people -- I've given you plenty of information to explore -- like the David Palmer book and Nancy Chen. The question is -- are you practicing "willful ignorance?"

Willful ignorance is not a good tactic to use on discussion forums. haha.



Qigong is not some big scary thing -- anyone can practice it and it makes the body/mind relaxed and go into the natural state of euphoria.

As for visions -- again visions are based on the concept of consciousness which is not accepted by Western science -- so if consciousness is not accepted then, of course visions are rejected.

Consciousness can be explained in Western science by quantum relativity or quantum chaos or sonofusion -- three Western science models I have gone into with a lot of detail.

So if you are not interested in those three Western models to explain consciousness as being beyond scacetime -- consciousness as being faster than light and creating light -- being holographic -- then you're probably not going to be interested in the nonwestern approach to consciousness.

So this thread is about the secret conspiratorial gateway to consciousness from nonwestern music.

That's why it's a conspiracy -- because it's been covered up.



Trance music has been literally banned and outlawed in the West --


Native American Music nativemusichistory.blogspot.com/ In 1934, federal bans on Native American music and dance were lifted, clearing the way for the reemergence of Native musical traditions and the birth of the .


The conspiracy against Native American sacred trance nonwestern healing vision music


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edit on 25-2-2012 by fulllotusqigong because: (no reason given)



edit on 25-2-2012 by fulllotusqigong because: (no reason given)



In 1973, Redbone released the politically oriented "We Were All Wounded at Wounded Knee", recalling the massacre of Lakota Sioux Indians by the Seventh Cavalry in 1890. The song ends with the subtly altered sentence "We were all wounded 'by' Wounded Knee". It charted in several European countries and reached the #1 position in The Netherlands but did not chart in the U.S. where it was initially withheld from release and then banned by several radio stations.[8]

edit on 25-2-2012 by fulllotusqigong because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by Starchild23
I have a question, the answer to which could mean nothing, or could have immense implications.

Has anyone measured the Hz of these "sky sounds"? If anyone has done so, the answer could be of monumental importance. Just imagine if it were precisely...

432 Hz.

Think about it.




The relation is something I call "music dreams" but this also includes "flying dreams."

D. Scott Rogo, the paranormal researcher, has a book on "psychic music" that is heard during Near Death Experiences and astral travel -- flying into heaven as a spirit over Earth.

A Psychic Study of the Music of the Spheres

So the secret to psychic music is that it uses natural resonance -- not the Western tuning -- so when people die and their spirit flies into the sky they hear natural resonance as strings or vocal music.



So the precise frequency is not the issue -- rather it's the overtone and undertone resonance of sound. Frequency assumes a geometric symmetric measurement or measuring time by length.

So we are talking about nonlinear feedback of sound to transform into other types of energy -- electrochemical, electromagnetic.



The strange sounds in the sky -- a lot of times it's just background noise from various technology but sometimes it is considered to be paranormal.



1/f noise is "pink noise" as nonlinear fractal sound -- it means that as you change the amplitude then change of the phase of the sound as speed causes the frequency to stay the same.


Martin Gardner describes the Pythagorean foundation behind fractals with "scaling noise" in Fractal music, Hypercards and More: "If you play a recording of such a sound at a different speed, you have only to adjust the volume to make it sound exactly as before. By adjusting the spectral density we obtain an auto correlation of zero - in other words the same ratio that expands."(96)


Some people associate it with causing "auditory hallucinations" -- so say if you're in the shower with noise or from an air conditioning vent -- if it is loud enough then you will also hear other sounds as your subconscious thoughts or subconscious music coming to the foreground in your perception. Unless a person can analyze what those subconscious sounds are from -- a recent song on the radio or a memory connected to something happening in the present, etc. then the meaning might be confusing. But 1/f noise can be used to predict the future in science as well and similar could be connected to precognitive vision dreams and "psychic music" visions.


It has been a long-standing puzzle why 1=f power spectra are seen in a variety of physical systems [10]. One of the ideas behind the BTW model was to explain the mechanism of 1=f noise, but the model does not contain a 1=f power spectrum. The spatiotemporal scaling in the self-organized critical state does not necessarily manifest itself in nontrivial exponents. H. J. Jensen et al. [41, 59] and later J. Kertesz and L. B. Kiss [60] showed that the power spectrum of the activity was in fact 1=f 2, i.e., the spectrum of a random walk.





edit on 25-2-2012 by fulllotusqigong because: (no reason given)


So a lot of these "strange noise sound" memes of late have been hoaxed.

haha.
edit on 25-2-2012 by fulllotusqigong because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 02:23 AM
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Originally posted by Starchild23


My question about the chords was intended to find similarities between this "chord" and numerology...but if it's simple an arrangement that can be used with any note, I'm wondering if perhaps the tritone could be used to create an entire song, and what the effects of that song would be on the chakra flow of the human body.

Thanks!


Dr. Mae-Wan Ho has discovered the living organisms are a "liquid crystal" and there are 70 octaves which are coordinated in phase synchrony - so there's different speeds of space but a unifying consciousness entanglement.

So consciousness is zero frequency but infinite phase as time -- this is called the Law of Phase Harmony from de Broglie -- uniting relativity and quantum physics.

So it creates a rainbow vortex of the living organism as a "liquid crystal" and Dr. Mae-Wan Ho has documented this in real time.

Since it is coordinated by consciousness as a singularity it works through entanglement which is beyond time -- instantaneous or faster than the speed of light communication -- but works as "reverse time" -- backwards time.



Consider this 107 year old musician who survived the Nazi concentration death genocide camps -- her secret is to think backwards with positive energy -- and she does this by learning Bach by heart.

So learning Bach by heart creates a positive energy to her heart-mind -- she plays the Italian Concerto third movement in this interview -- just a very brief clip. I know this because I also memorized the Italian Concerto by Bach. haha.

The slow movements of Bach are 60 beats per minute and this creates a resonance of the heart at 15 beats per minute -- the theta dream euphoria brain wave and also the frequency of the heart in a slow meditative state that increases the amplitude.

Subharmonics have increased amplitude - so that is the secret to nonlinear feedback.

So it's not so much one frequency but rhythm is slowed down frequency -- so the heart rhythm goes into a quantum singularity that covers all the frequencies of energy -- 70 octaves.

So that the wavelength of an ELF wave resonating a proton can go to half of the solar system, as Dr. Andrija Puharich discusses.

Of course there are even deeper sound waves in the Universe -- like from the supermassive black holes:


These sound waves are thought to have been produced by explosive events occurring around a supermassive black hole (bright white spot) in Perseus A, the huge galaxy at the center of the cluster. The pitch of the sound waves translates into the note of B flat, 57 octaves below middle-C. This frequency is over a million billion times deeper than the limits of human hearing, so the sound is much too deep to be heard. The image also shows two vast, bubble-shaped cavities, each about 50 thousand light years wide, extending away from the central supermassive black hole. These cavities, which are bright sources of radio waves, are not really empty, but filled with high-energy particles and magnetic fields. They push the hot X-ray emitting gas aside, creating sound waves that sweep across hundreds of thousands of light years. The detection of intergalactic sound waves may solve the long-standing mystery of why the hot gas in the central regions of the Perseus cluster has not cooled over the past ten billion years to form trillions of stars. As sounds waves move through gas, they are eventually absorbed and their energy is converted to heat. In this way, the sound waves from the supermassive black hole in Perseus A could keep the cluster gas hot.


A sound wave several galaxies -- or 300,000 light years - long
edit on 26-2-2012 by fulllotusqigong because: (no reason given)



so the wavelength is 6 mm x (5,000 light years/ 1 mm) = 30,000 light years!


Chandra Spies the Longest Sound Wave in the Universe!
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posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 05:06 AM
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reply to post by fulllotusqigong
 


I came back because the subject is irresistible.
Then I saw the 432hz question and now I'm posting again.

Drew the person asked a simple question - are the strange sounds 432hz. You could have said (for e.g.)

get a free audio mixer - download.cnet.com...

get a free utube vid downloader - www.downloadhelper.net...

find a strange sounds video
www.youtube.com...

right click and choose "download and convert" and choose "mp3"

and also get a free pure tone sine wave generator
www.digital-recordings.com...
"DFG sine tone HR generator "

have the generator produce a 432hz tone and save a couple minutes of it as an mp3.

open the 2 mp3's in the mixer and use your ears to compare. if you can sing along to songs on the radio and people don't cringe at the sound of it, then you can probably tell it the sounds are close or contain a strong portion of 432hz as its make-up. it won't sound exactly the same but they shouldn't "clash" if 432hz is part of the strange sound, if the effect is subtle its probably not anything to chase up.

just a thought.

Peace,
-TF



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 05:34 AM
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reply to post by ThoughtForms
 


If you watch the vids I posted in reply to the question -- the "strange sounds" do not match any specific frequency.

Sorry to burst your bubble about fixating on one frequency. haha.

Also "a lot" of the strange sound vids online are hoaxed -- as is proven in the vids I linked.

I realize that 1/f noise is maybe too complicated for most to understand -- but it is the best explanation for any real "strange sounds" as science has shown 1/f noise to be the model for nonlinear chaotic events in Nature.

So I hope that clarifies my previous reply to the question -- it does take a bit of time to digest the vids and links I posted, etc. haha.

Again there is no "one" frequency -- rather the source of sound is based on complementary opposites -- "frequency" is a Western concept that tries to limit sound to a spatial length measurement.

So the lunar calendar and the solar calendar and the Earth -- this is actually chaotic -- so while it can be "averaged" by Western science in the long time it can not be predicted -- it goes into a singularity as infinity.

The Universe as a whole does the same -- it's origin is not in space but instead in a singularity of time.

So the Law of Phase Harmony is about this -- in terms of how when frequency goes to zero then time goes to infinity as phase -- and this creates reverse time by bending space backwards -- it is a white hole from a black hole. Reality is holographic and when we look out into the universe as space as black in terms of time it is white light as a singularity -- infinitely creating light and spacetime as energy-mass.

There is no "one" listening -- music makes us -- not the other way around. Frequency assumes some "one" is measuring the sound with technology.

The secret to the source of strange sounds is to listen to the source -- and this goes to a singularity.



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 06:29 AM
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Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
If you watch the vids I posted in reply to the question -- the "strange sounds" do not match any specific frequency.


I've heard it said that every point in time and space has its own frequency. And if you know a particular frequency associated with an event in the past, and match it, you can time travel to that event in the past.

Do you agree with that statement?



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by fulllotusqigong
 



Consciousness is a hallucination according to Western rational scientific philosophy.


Very typical. You build walls of # that individually are easily broken down but collectively become too tedious to properly refute within the limits of this site. I'm referring to chemical activity in the brain causing malfunction in neurotransmitters like with Little Serotonin Dopamine effects. Your mind is not expanded by perceiving the unreal. Could it explain how someone could think that 5/4 cubed which is 125/64 can equal 2? Maybe. How about 9/8 cubed to 729/512 which was Pythagoras' approximation of the square root of 2 but when squared equals 531441/262144 which obviously does not equal 2. 400 BCE? You are implying they were stupid? Didn't know better?



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by Mary Rose

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
If you watch the vids I posted in reply to the question -- the "strange sounds" do not match any specific frequency.


I've heard it said that every point in time and space has its own frequency. And if you know a particular frequency associated with an event in the past, and match it, you can time travel to that event in the past.

Do you agree with that statement?


It's stated there is a "natural resonance" of everything but in science it would not be just frequency -- also phase and amplitude -- but then in terms of the future and past it also includes the "pilot wave" which is from the Law of Phase Harmony -- the pilot wave is superliminal as consciousness secretly creating a field that is non-local.

So non-local means it's instantaneous -- but this happens by bending space -- so that reality is holographic -- different locations in space are embedded or enfolded in deeper levels of time.

The only way to do this is to resonate with the pilot wave as consciousness and this can not be measured by science -- only logically inferred - so it is not a frequency. As De Broglie states -- it is zero frequency but infinite time phase -- and can only be measured after the fact.

So it's been proven that life relies on quantum entanglement -- in photosynthesis and also for bird migration and most likely for other animal migrations like salmon -- so this quantum entanglement can not be reproduced in a research lab.

We have to realize that the human brain is more sophisticated - and the human heart -- then any means of technological measurement like frequency.

So we exist within Nature which comes from consciousness and we can listen to consciousness but we can not see it -- so we can't measure it as frequency.



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by DenyObfuscation

reply to post by fulllotusqigong
 



Consciousness is a hallucination according to Western rational scientific philosophy.


Very typical. You build walls of # that individually are easily broken down but collectively become too tedious to properly refute within the limits of this site. I'm referring to chemical activity in the brain causing malfunction in neurotransmitters like with Little Serotonin Dopamine effects. Your mind is not expanded by perceiving the unreal. Could it explain how someone could think that 5/4 cubed which is 125/64 can equal 2? Maybe. How about 9/8 cubed to 729/512 which was Pythagoras' approximation of the square root of 2 but when squared equals 531441/262144 which obviously does not equal 2. 400 BCE? You are implying they were stupid? Didn't know better?




Well I've mentioned that in science now a person with depression can get an implant that sends a shock to trigger the vagus nerve and this increases the serotonin levels in the brain. Qigong works through the vagus nerve so that qigong solves depression naturally without any need for a microchip implant. But if people want to get microchipped -- then I suppose they can just get microchipped. haha.

Dopamine and serotonin are inversely related but the secret is actually the oxytocin of the heart -- so after the serotonin levels keep increasing from activating the vagus nerve as the trigger for internal bliss -- then the oxytocin levels of the heart increase and this then creates stronger electromagnetic energy for the chi healing.


Magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) has taught us that oxytocin works at the 5-HT1A serotonin receptor site. Serotonin is found in great density in the amygdala, the seat of all of our negative memories, fears and anxieties. Increased oxytocin in the amygdala triggers serotonin. Serotonin and oxytocin co-release in the brain so increasing serotonin likely increases oxytocin, too. These studies provide evidence that enhanced serotonergic transmission stimulates oxytocin secretion and that 5-HT2 receptors contribute to this effect.



Additionally, impulsive alcoholic offenders show lower CSF 5-HIAA than non-impulsive alcoholic offenders and healthy controls (Virkkunen et al, 1994). These various lines of evidence support the hypothesis that it is the impulsive type of aggression in particular that is associated with serotonin hypofunction.



Interactions of this kind between the serotonin and dopamine systems provide a framework for understanding mechanisms underlying impulsive aggression. Considering the functional regulation of serotonin over the dopamine system, deficient serotonergic function may result in hyperactivity of the dopamine system, promoting impulsive behavior. This relationship may account for co-occurring serotonin and dopamine dysfunctions in individuals with impulsive aggression. In support of this, prefrontal serotonin levels in rats decreased to 80% of baseline level during and after fights, whereas prefrontal dopamine levels increased to 120% after fights (Van Erp & Miczek, 2000). This inverse association between serotonin and dopamine levels during aggression was replicated in a subsequent study (Ferrari, vanErp, Tornatzky, & Miczek, 2003). These results suggest that decreased serotonergic activity in the context of aggressive behavior is closely associated with increased dopamine activity.



More recently, it has emerged that disturbances in peripheral and central oxytocin levels have been detected in some patients with dopamine-dependent disorders. Thus, oxytocin is proposed to be a key neural substrate that interacts with central dopamine systems. In addition to psychosocial improvement, oxytocin has recently been implicated in mediating mesolimbic dopamine pathways during drug addiction and withdrawal. This bi-directional role of dopamine has also been implicated during some components of sexual behavior. This review will discuss evidence for the existence dopamine/oxytocin positive interaction in social behavioral paradigms and associated disorders such as sexual dysfunction, autism, addiction, anorexia/bulimia, and depression. Preliminary findings suggest that whilst further rigorous testing has to be conducted to establish a dopamine/oxytocin link in human disorders, animal models seem to indicate the existence of broad and integrated brain circuits where dopamine and oxytocin interactions at least in part mediate socio-affiliative behaviors. A profound disruption to these pathways is likely to underpin associated behavioral disorders. Central oxytocin pathways may serve as a potential therapeutic target to improve mood and socio-affiliative behaviors in patients with profound social deficits and/or drug addiction.


So qigong relies on the internal vagus nerve bliss.



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by fulllotusqigong
 


What about the numbers? Seriously, I'd like to see how it works. Have I missed where you show it working out? Obviously with numerical math it doesn't work out but in the OP and many times since then you have held that 9/8 is cubed to the square root of 2 and 5/4 is cubed to 2 but how? In music only? But that wouldn't double a cube, so there has to be more to it than Archytas lied right? I can't move into the rest of the theory until I get what you mean about those numbers. Maybe I missed a link or something but I've read over and over and can't see it.



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by DenyObfuscation

reply to post by fulllotusqigong


Could it explain how someone could think that 5/4 cubed which is 125/64 can equal 2? Maybe. How about 9/8 cubed to 729/512 which was Pythagoras' approximation of the square root of 2 but when squared equals 531441/262144 which obviously does not equal 2. 400 BCE? You are implying they were stupid? Didn't know better?



Greek math did not use logarithms -- so in the West, as I mentioned, it was Simon Stevin who converted the integer ratios that approximated equal-temperment into logarithms --

Here's a good overview of Simon Stevin creating the first logarithmic music scale


The frequency ratio represented by four semitones, for example the interval from C to the E above it, is called a major third. This represents a frequency ratio of ... cube root of 2:1, or roughly 1.25992:1. The just major third is defi ned to be the frequency ratio of 5:4 or 1.25:1. Again it is the just major third which represents the consonant interval, and the major third on our modern equal tempered scale is an approximation to it. The approximation is quite a bit worse than it was for the perfect fifth. The di fference between a just major third and an equal tempered major third is quite audible; the diff erence is about one seventh of a semitone.


So this proves that indeed 5/4 is the approximation of the cube root of two

Now it might be said that this logic is turned around but as Stuart Isacoff shows in his book Temperament -- the ratio 5/4 was crucial for launching the renaissance -- for three dimensional perspective art work -- again as an approximation of the cube root of two.

This comes from Eudoxus use of the equation arithmetic mean times harmonic mean equals geometric mean squared -- Eudoxus being the student of Archytas. So the Greeks used geometric symbols as letters -- and that is the secret -- I'm talking about the conspiratorial secret use of logistics or music compound ratios for doubling the cube.

That is why the math professors said my math was good (Luigi Borzacchini) and I did very valuable research (Joe Mazur). So then math professor Joe Mazur had me submit my music math research to the MMA journal for publication.


(Burkert [1972:441] notes that the harmonic mean discovered in the context of Pythagorean music theory has a major use precisely in approximating the square root.)” Michael Hudson’s essay, “Music as an Analogy for Economic Order in Classical Antiquity” in Jürgen Backhaus (ed.), Karl Bücher. Theory, History, Anthropology, Non-Market Economies (Marburg:Metropolis Verlag, 2000): pp. 113-35 citing Burkert, Walter (1972), Lore and Science in Ancient Pythagoreanism (Harvard University Press, 1972).


So again the harmonic mean was used to "approximate" the square root of two.


The Greeks achieved the geometric ability to tune an equal-tempered monochord when Archytas, Plato's Pythagorean friend, solved the problem of doubling the volume of the god's cubical altar at Delphi, the allegorical form of the problem of establishing the third root of 2. Now the cube root of 2 establishes an equal-tempered major third within the monochord octave....From that beginning, the equal-tempered whole tone is the geometric mean within the major third, and the equal-tempered semitone is the geometric mean within the whole tone. Iterations of this procedure will produce all twelve-tones in equal-temperament. The necessity of tempering the pure intervals, defined by the ratios of integers, is one of the great themes of Plato's Republic. In his allegorical form, “citizens” modelled on the tones of the scale must not demand “exactly what they are owed,” but must keep in mind “what is best for the city.”219


219 Ernest McClain, The Myth of Invariance: The Origins of the Gods, Mathematics and Music from the Rig Veda
to Plato (Nicolas-Hays, Inc., 1976), p. 11.


The rigidly arithmetical approach to canonical division seems all the more pointed when we consider that several ancient authors who worked on mathematical harmonics also offered solutions to the problem of how to double the cube, which requires finding two means in continued proportion. This is a problem of geometry, since like the irrational semitone, it involves incommensurable magnitudes….222


222 David Creese, The Monochord in Ancient Greek Harmonic Science (Cambridge University Press,
2010), p. 50.

O.K. so the mathematicians are searching for secret connection from continued proportions in Greek phonetic letters using the commutative property and the geometric means used by Eudoxus for irrational incommensurability. I provide the numbers of the proportions used in the algebraic equation that translated to the geometric mean.
edit on 26-2-2012 by fulllotusqigong because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-2-2012 by fulllotusqigong because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 06:05 AM
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Originally posted by fulllotusqigongreply to post by ThoughtFormsIf you watch the vids I posted in reply to the question -- the "strange sounds" do not match any specific frequency.
if you put a "headline" somewhere near the video stating what it is then maybe I'll click on it, otherwise I'll perceive you as being lazy or deliberately obtrusive and ignore it.

Sorry to burst your bubble about fixating on one frequency. haha.
read the posts you reply to more carefully or lay off the crack. one of the two.

originally posted by ThoughtForms it won't sound exactly the same but they shouldn't "clash" if 432hz is part of the strange sound, if the effect is subtle its probably not anything to chase up.
I completely agree that the "strange sounds" are complex messes of jumbled frequencies, BUT some of the drones carry a note - and every note has a root frequency that can be checked for...

anything less then the full audible range of any sound will have a root frequency if its sustained long enough to measure. I also agree that fixation on one frequency is not going to lead to anything valuable, but its a tuning I speak of, I could just as easily say C=216hz and bang on about it but I don't. same tuning different notes, different frequencies no fixations. "ha ha".

Also "a lot" of the strange sound vids online are hoaxed -- as is proven in the vids I linked.
Yes I know they are, but I personally heard one and can testify to their existence so whether you believe in them or not is irrelevant. Yes some are hoaxed I agree on that but you prove nothing about nothing by posting a compilation video.

I realize that 1/f noise is maybe too complicated for most to understand -- but it is the best explanation for any real "strange sounds" as science has shown 1/f noise to be the model for nonlinear chaotic events in Nature.
this statement is null and void as I have found it to be completely irrelevant to what we are discussing - "are the strange sounds 432hz?" my answer is "yes, they could be, here's the tools for you to find out" your answer is "garble garble ha ha ha" also 1/f as is "single Hz sounds?" sure you could isolate it further, we use decimals to chop it up as finely as you wish, but its not pratical for natural uses of the ears - we don't/can't differentiate between pitch that accurately and pitch is the only 'biological' way we know to measure a sound

So I hope that clarifies my previous reply to the question -- it does take a bit of time to digest the vids and links I posted, etc. haha.
and there you go, right there "garble garble ha ha" its all you seem to be able to do....

Again there is no "one" frequency -- rather the source of sound is based on complementary opposites -- "frequency" is a Western concept that tries to limit sound to a spatial length measurement.
How? the science acknowledges and relies on every physical parameter to determine the "spatial length measurement" of a sound wave:
-temperature,
-the forces of the planet,
-whether,
-etc.

Any of those things change and the length, pitch and frequencies of the sounds will change.

You can programme a keyboard to play a pure tone sine wave of 80hz. but when it comes out of the speakers it may be 86 or 75hz, or even full semi-tone's away from the original Hz due to humidity and temperature of the air particles themselves.

its nature= the universe + our biological bodies + our sentience that determines the length of a sound wave as perceived by a person, the science just recognises an already occurring event. and defines it to enable one person to describe it to others so all can understand..

You should know also that I have no idea what a "complementary opposite" is in the context of music and frequency. I'm pretty sure no one else on this thread has either.


So the lunar calendar and the solar calendar and the Earth -- this is actually chaotic -- so while it can be "averaged" by Western science in the long time it can not be predicted -- it goes into a singularity as infinity.
you don't provide conceptual evidence yet alone anything solid, nor do you de-jargon, these things need to change or I cannot understand.

The Universe as a whole does the same -- it's origin is not in space but instead in a singularity of time.
that's contradictory to your previous statements about frequency erroneously limiting a sound to a "spatial length measurement", as sounds and frequency are part of the same universe you are stating comes from a single moment in time..

so time is a man-made fallacy in one instance but responsible for the universe in the next?


So the Law of Phase Harmony is about this -- in terms of how when frequency goes to zero then time goes to infinity as phase -- and this creates reverse time by bending space backwards -- it is a white hole from a black hole. Reality is holographic and when we look out into the universe as space as black in terms of time it is white light as a singularity -- infinitely creating light and spacetime as energy-mass.
as oddly as you put that...If I understand... then how do u suggest one increases the frequency to make "nothing" into "something?"

and if we're really talking about the nature of energy and reality the universe and everything as we know it, how does that really relate to a conspiracy of music other then that music is a derivative of vibrating energy...? and out of all of these derivatives of which their relationship to your theory seems completely trivial, how is "music" the most relevant??

taking this too extremes for a minute, we aren't capable of producing music with the liberty to manipulate the sounds as "finely" as the universe itself, therefore we have to make do with existing tuning methods.

Even a fretless stringed instruments will still only have a biologically detectable difference between one pitch and another of about an 8hz chunk. Its very hard if not impossible for a normal human to detect any change between "finer" differences in pitch.

We could do tiny changes of pitch/hz/frequency with a digital instrument and produce steady constant tones, but as soon as it becomes "acoustic" from "digital" as it leaves the speakers it's at the mercy of the universe again.

And so you have perfect order ('pure-tone' sound as an 'ordered' derivative of chaotic energy) and chaos (non-"things" or energy that isn't "something" yet)... submitting to chaos removes meaning from everything and sentient existing for the sake of existence alone without things happening and thoughts to think would get boring quickly. you ever passed out in the shower? the sound the water makes when you come to and the black and white flashing before you go are what we would have. forever. that would suck man. either that or our sentience depends entirely on our form (which it does) and removing the order that tells the energy what form to take destroys the vessel for the sentience and you remove "life" from the universe. Which would also suck.

so then we have a chaotic universe filled with pockets of marginal order and you propose (it would seem) that if we used different means of making music we could ANALOGY= defragment a portion of the universe. and I suppose have it "run better". Though at other times you seem to state we should submit to chaos and just remove the binary altogether...but again I think that kind of defeats the purpose of the universe in the first place...

SO if life is just "order" imposed on chaotic energy to make it "snap" into some kind of form, what's the point of tampering with it at all? just because we can? is that then our purpose...? to refine the universe? or destroy it? perhaps whoever made the universe can explain why we were made too. And now we have a confusing mess of spirit, science and speculation. Cool.. but confusing.
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edit on 27-2-2012 by ThoughtForms because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 06:16 AM
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reply to post by Mary Rose
 

sorry to answer a question not posed to me but its a really interesting idea you've thrown on the table...

lets say that everything is energy vibrating at different "frequencies" or rates of vibration. and if everything buzzes together in the right way it makes everything that exists for as long as it buzzes that particular way.

Then sure, I don't see why what you're suggesting doesn't make sense or is impossible, only that it would be difficult and very impractical for us humans and our current levels of technology....awesome idea though...

First you'd need a device to contain a universe, then the specific "code" (if you will) to "buzz" the universe into life.

the code would be every form of energies frequency and amplitude and spatial position in the "universe-form" because its not just a sound wave now, its everything buzzing together, but its also "everything" captured as it was in a single moment of time, so much like you can make a "standing wave" of sound, it would be a "standing wave" of the "universe-form"

I say wave because the if the energy exists it is moving, even "on the spot" it will "buzz" or vibrate or "move"....

I say "form" because every wave in the ocean (for eg.) has a different physical form. So together we have the universe moving "through" time which we'd call the "universal complex energy wave" containing every type of energy and its derivatives within it and its "form" which is what we'd use to describe what it looked like from moment to moment as it travelled through time.

And then it would be a static moment, suspended in time, because every divisible fraction or "snapshot" of time would be made from a slightly different combination of buzzing.

I guess what you would need is a time-machine that used these "snapshot" images to tell it where to go. And a means of acquiring that "snapshot.."

it would seem to me the easiest way to do that would be go up a level. if our universe is contained with some snow-globe on an aliens coffee table then we need to go talk to the dude on the sofa.

I hope that answers your questions some and also that you didn't find it patronising because that wasn't my intent at all, I de-jargon as best I can for my own benefit too. its hard to remember terminology and kind of pointless if you can still explain the concept.

cool idea too, I'm going to be pondering that one for a while.
-TF

edit on 27-2-2012 by ThoughtForms because: (no reason given)


P.S) maybe the universe contains itself within its own properties, like time and space.

So its like the "universal complex energy wave" that we're part of...

ok wait. If time can't stop then how could it have ever started. ....so time is always happening.

So then if time is always happening and the universe is buzzing energy that expands through space simultaneously as it travels through time as a constantly changing complex energy wave the form and composition of which changes simultaneous to its movement through space and time... then maybe we can't travel back through time independent of the universe whilst still being inside or part of it.


If we did I imagine it would "f%$@ sh4#@ up" and bore holes in this energy wave as we travelled back through it using space and time while the rest of it travelled forwards,

so then I'm also theorising we need a means of leaving this big worm of an energy wave, and lets say "float" on back through the "whatever" to the point along the wave back where it was at the time you're looking for, then travel back into it to wherever you planned to end up, you'd also have to calculate the time it would take from the moment you re-enter the universe to when you arrived "spatially" where you wanted to go so that you got there at the time you intended.

Which begs the question what is the status of "time" as we know it outside of this universe?

does "time" exist at all?

if space does then time has to, unless its a new and different kind of space and then could we exist in it at all?

and what changes would we have to make to exist in it, leave our bodies?

if there was no time outside our universe and we're standing there looking at it, would we see everything our universe would ever be and ever was as a giant stationary worm?
maybe more like one of those clouds that look like tunnels through the sky...

and also if there WAS time maybe it would be really super slowed down or sped up and we'd step into it and age instantly and die or step out for a second and return only to find 50years have passed back in your own universe?


I really am going to be tripping on this one for a while. thanks for bringing it up, I think it was a great question.
edit on 27-2-2012 by ThoughtForms because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-2-2012 by ThoughtForms because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-2-2012 by ThoughtForms because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 06:44 AM
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reply to post by fulllotusqigong
 


Thanks for your post - sadly I'm in work and the prooxy server automatically blocks anything youtube (although seems to consider ATS to be fine!) so I couldn't get access to your link!



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