The Devil's Chord: The conspiracy to open the portal of consciousness and mystery of the octave

Originally posted by rwfresh
reply to post by UncleV

 

"Listen to your heart...certainly valuable, no doubt about it. But that is rhythm, not tone, not frequency nor interval"

The heart makes sounds.. unless you are a vampire or zombie.

There is no math proof forthcoming. There can't be. That's the point....

Eastern way - listen to the truth so as to resonate with it and relieve the discomfort of dissonance.

So western scales are "less true" because they come about from a place of wanting to drown out truth rather than resonate it. The sound of Trees blowing in the wind is pure music. And if chaos theory is closer to truth then a scale that can be represented by it would be too.

I'm not saying i agree with these generalizations... but it sounds like qigongdong is for the sake of impressing the importance of listening as a vehicle to experience the proof of truth.

Right the yin-yang Emptiness as the Pythagorean Tetrad works -- you just do the exercises as music body-mind transformation!!

Originally posted by DenyObfuscation
reply to post by fulllotusqigong

 

What happened is that I discovered that Taoism is the same as Pythagorean philosophy so that the Perfect Fifth as 2:3 or C to G is literally "yang" in Taoism and the Perfect Fourth as G to C or 3:4 is "yin" in Taoism.

Can you please address this apparent cognitive dissonance. I'm already shoveling snow in the arctic with an icepick. Please, a blizzard free response would be appreciated.

reply to post by fulllotusqigong


west bad. western 4th 5th bad. 4th 5th yin yang good. HOW?

Originally posted by DenyObfuscation
reply to post by fulllotusqigong

 

west bad. western 4th 5th bad. 4th 5th yin yang good. HOW?

The Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth intervals are not the Western fifth and fourth of the logarithmic tuning.

So the "Diatonic" perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth also relies on the earlier math of "divide and average" math -- before logarithms. So that 3/2 as the Perfect Fifth squared is 9/4 which is then halved back into the first octave as the 9/8 major second. Orthodox Pythagorean philosophy did not use the number 8 in tuning -- it only used the Tetrad of 1:2:3:4 -- just as Taoism only uses yin/yang/Emptiness or the earliest philosophy of India only uses the three gunas. 9/8 cubed is the Tritone as the Devil's Interval. So the Tritone provides the gateway back to the secret of the Perfect Fifth/Fourth as Orthodox Pythagorean philosophy.

So the reason why is the secret I have revealed that the Perfect Fourth and Fifth are complementary opposites as yin and yang so that there is a nonlinear subharmonic and overtone feedback.

This is still experienced in Western music because Western music is tuned based on the natural overtone harmonics but because it is fundamentally defined by geometry that attempts to "contain" infinity then this technology cuts off the transformation of sound into light energy.

In the West there is sometimes a tingling sensation from music -- the chills -- technically called "frisson" -- it is considered to form from the creation of harmonic beats -- so when the female voice sings high pitch there are more beats due to the more overtone harmonics closer together and these beats then create a stronger amplitude subharmonic.

I have stated that this also happens into ultrasound which then also creates subharmonic ELF beats and this process as ultrasound creates "acoustic cavitation" which is nonlinear due to the difference of expansion versus contraction of surface area to volume -- the bubble collapses and this creates a vacuum of quantum energy. This is considered to resonate the microtubules of the brain/body -- the spirochetes in the body -- to create mini quantum relativity singularities or quantum chaos singularities.

Western science can not unite relativity and quantum physics. So Western science provides a model for alchemy but it is not the same -- the tuning is not the same due to the inherent time-frequency uncertainty principle.

Time-frequency uncertainty is the same as the complementary opposites of yin and yang or the Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth and is the key to accessing consciousness beyond spacetime and energymass. I have also described this through De Broglie's Law of Phase Harmony. So as frequency increases time expands and slows down - the opposite of frequency being inverse to wavelength -- this happens as relativity unites with quantum physics and is explained by a superliminal or faster than the speed of light signal that secretly guides the energymass and spacetime -- what some quantum physicists call consciousness.

Consciousness is the eternal process of complementary opposites as the resonance and transformation of energy -- energy can not be destroyed or created but it can be transformed through this process of complementary opposites.

So the sound turns into ultrasound and ELF waves at its opposite extremes -- that's a Western science analogy but the practice is not Western science. So there are Eastern terms for this that are more detailed.

If you can understand the basic Western paradoxes then the Eastern models provide the answers in detail -- with Jing energy as the electrochemical energy that is activated by frisson or the internal tingling as proprioception in Western science.

But there is also the Chi energy as electromagnetic energy and this is very powerful and unknown to Western science - although there are a few qigong masters that are making this known.

Dr. Effie P. Chow in San Francisco is another great qigong master - when I saw her in Minneapolis she blew the fuse in the room behind us and the security guard at the University wandered in wandering what was going on. haha.

Originally posted by DenyObfuscation
reply to post by fulllotusqigong

 

west bad. western 4th 5th bad. 4th 5th yin yang good. HOW?

ETA: Tried to find an answer in that vid. No mention of how the western p4th and p5th become sanctified by naming them yin and yang. I have no interest in learning bullscrotumpingpong.

edit on 17-2-2012 by DenyObfuscation because: ETA

Actually again it's not just East vs. West -- I'm talking about 90% of human history.

I already gave the quotes on how yin and yang are the Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth earlier in the thread and how music traditionally in China is used to create Qi healing energy.

So now I'm just providing more details on how the Qi healing uses the 12 note scale microcosmic orbit. As I stated the traditional teaching of this practice as the "small universe" is the book "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality"

But that's just the Eastern model. We could also discuss the three gunas.

But the Bushmen culture also has the same healing energy -- the N/om of the Bushmen is the same as the Jing of Taoism or the Kundalini of yoga -- it's called the "creative fire" as the Logos of Pythagorean philosophy.

The Bushmen are 90% of human history and so the Bushmen music tradition with its shamanic healing energy then spread around the world as documented by Dr. Victor Grauer.

Bushmen don't talk about synesthesia per se, he explains. They don't use that word. "They talk about 'kia,' becoming awake. In this heightened awareness they say they get 'second eyes, second ears'... Now they see what they sing or feel all the other synesthetic combos. Hearing the sounds may drive the visionary experiences. Songs become called 'lines' or 'ropes' that take you somewhere.

So Bradford Keeney -- a PhD musician psychologist -- now focuses on Bushmen trance music healing

However, I have made some hookup with music so that what I feel and see can be expressed in sound. I use this way of improvising music, often jazz, as a means of helping others wake up. I change my voice into a more vibratory form, like the doctors of the Kalahari, to do the same. Examples of this are on my website (mojodoctors.com).

reply to post by fulllotusqigong

The Tritone is the extreme limit of the Western logarithmic tuning system -- it is the most dissonant and so it called the "Devil's Interval" by the medieval church -- and banned.

The most dissonant interval in Western music is the semitone. Two notes a semitone apart, played together, make a truly ugly, beat-filled, dissonant sound.

(For the uninitiated, a semitone is the distance between a white note on the piano and the black note nearest it.)

most tuning is done with this inherent "chaotic" or inherently unpredictable limit within the linear deterministic model of measuring. It's not about setting up an experiment that has a controlled result and can be analyzed with the left-brain.

Tuning is done by listening for beats. When beats cease to be audible, the two notes being played are perfectly in tune. The limit of tuning is not chaotic or unpredictable; in mathematics, it can be written

Lt (f1/f2) –> 1

One s not chaotic or unpredictable. You are talking rot as usual.

You really shouldn't try to pass yourself off as a musician, Drew. The pretence is all too transparent.

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by fulllotusqigong

 

The Tritone is the extreme limit of the Western logarithmic tuning system -- it is the most dissonant and so it called the "Devil's Interval" by the medieval church -- and banned.

The most dissonant interval in Western music is the semitone. Two notes a semitone apart, played together, make a truly ugly, beat-filled, dissonant sound.

(For the uninitiated, a semitone is the distance between a white note on the piano and the black note nearest it.)

For someone who claims so much musical knowledge and experience, Drew, you appear to be just a little bit ignorant of what every real musician knows. Wannabe much?

The semitone is the difference between the Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth as the Tritone -- so the Semitone like the Tritone also has the same paradox of pitch difference

When the pattern is transposed by a half octave, the identical pitches are heard but they appear to be reversed in time.

So they take a fifth and go to the fourth by semitones or vice versa:

Listeners organize this pattern as two stepwise lines that move in contrary motion; that is, as the ascending line G#—A, together with the descending line D#—D. How-ever, the ascending line is heard as higher by some listeners [as in percept (a)], but the de-scending line is heard as higher by others [as in percept (b)].

Again it's the Semitone Paradox -- The Semitone Paradox Music Perception © 1988 BY THE REGENTS OF THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA Winter 1988, Vol. 6, No. 2, 115—132

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by fulllotusqigong

 

The Tritone is the extreme limit of the Western logarithmic tuning system -- it is the most dissonant and so it called the "Devil's Interval" by the medieval church -- and banned.

The most dissonant interval in Western music is the semitone. Two notes a semitone apart, played together, make a truly ugly, beat-filled, dissonant sound.

(For the uninitiated, a semitone is the distance between a white note on the piano and the black note nearest it.)

most tuning is done with this inherent "chaotic" or inherently unpredictable limit within the linear deterministic model of measuring. It's not about setting up an experiment that has a controlled result and can be analyzed with the left-brain.

Tuning is done by listening for beats. When beats cease to be audible, the two notes being played are perfectly in tune. The limit of tuning is not chaotic or unpredictable; in mathematics, it can be written

Lt (f1/f2) –> 1

One s not chaotic or unpredictable. You are talking rot as usual.

You really shouldn't try to pass yourself off as a musician, Drew. The pretence is all too transparent.

edit on 17/2/12 by Astyanax because: of more tripe and balderdash.

Yeah by chaotic I mean the ELF waves of the heart and the "acoustic cavitation" of the ultrasound:

Browsing a bookstore on a "dismal day," The Geometry of Biological Time caught his attention because its title was uncannily similar to his senior thesis on the geometry of DNA. "[T]his was the work of an unusual scientist," he writes. "No, not just unusual, Arthur T. Winfree was breaking all the rules. Above all, he was playful." The book was filled with quirky elements: data on menstrual cycles from Dr. Winfree's own mother, puns in chapter titles, personal stories. Most important, Winfree's credentials were strong and his "synthesis was brilliant and utterly original." Steven Strogatz was compelled to write the author at Purdue University, asking for advice about programs where he might study mathematical biology. The professor replied with a two-page letter, full of generous advice and suggesting that the student keep in touch. Might there be a summer job, the eager young Strogatz responded. The professor wrote back "five minutes after receiving yours" with an offer, signed "Impulsively, Art Winfree." Steven Strogatz had a mentor, and he would soon have an enduring friendship that continued until Winfree's death in November 2002. Though not as scholarly in approach as the book Dr. Strogatz stumbled on in Cambridge, Sync builds on his mentor's example. It is an appealing synthesis, with idiosyncrasies that will charm readers whatever their mathematical inclinations. Perhaps a recent college graduate will stumble upon it and write the author an enthusiastic letter, and perhaps that student will receive a response of generous proportions worthy of Art Winfree.

This book called SYNC by quantum chaos mathematician Dr. Steve Strogatz features his research with Dr. Art Winifree about the chaotic heart beat

The movies reveal a series of unusual spiral waves that originate with "rotors" near the surface of the heart. The waves rapidly expand, flow across the heart muscle, merge and even interfere with each other, causing heart cells to contract in an uncoordinated way. Knowing how these unique waves form and behave could provide the information needed to design and test control techniques that may provide an alternative to existing defibrillators -- which deliver the electrical equivalent of "a bowling ball dropped onto your chest from a two-story building." Because the spiral waves seem chaotic in their behavior, researchers hope they can apply newly discovered chaos control techniques to restore normal heartbeat. Instead of the massive jolt of electricity, the chaos control technique might bring the heart back into normal rhythm using carefully-applied electrical signals of much less energy. "The idea behind chaos control is that very small changes to a truly chaotic system dramatically change its behavior," Ditto explained. Reducing the amount of energy could also allow defibrillators, both portable devices used by emergency medical teams and the implantable devices put into chests of people vulnerable to fibrillation, to be smaller and operate longer on their batteries.

So these chaotic spiral waves of the heart beat are from Dr. Art Winifree

reply to post by fulllotusqigong


how is the 3:2 4:3 problem different in nonwest tuning

Originally posted by Astyanax

Tuning is done by listening for beats. When beats cease to be audible, the two notes being played are perfectly in tune. /editby]

A true (just) perfect 5th contains no beating, because it is a true 3 : 2 ratio. An equal tempered perfect 5th contains beats but they are not that "rough" sounding, because the beating is slower than with, say, an equal tempered major 3rd, which sounds very rough and out of tune.

I already mentioned Helmholtz beat model of harmonics -- it's also in my masters thesis -- that's precisely why the Perfect Fifth is so special

Originally posted by DenyObfuscation
reply to post by fulllotusqigong

 

how is the 3:2 4:3 problem different in nonwest tuning

Because the philosophy of logarithms is based on defining sound as spatial distance with the intention to "contain" sound through visual geometric measurement.

Sound is something we listen to so there's no need for a visual measurement.

The natural harmonic overtones are created through the resonance of the body and mind in natural complementary opposite movements -- so the simple Tai Chi movements for example.



So the upper body is yang and the lower body is yin and the right hand is yang and the left hand is yin.

reply to post by fulllotusqigong


but how are they created-measured-repeated. how is a p4 or p5 determined on an instrument in non west? forget logs. what makes it a true 3:2 more than pythagoras method?

Originally posted by DenyObfuscation
reply to post by fulllotusqigong

 

but how are they created-measured-repeated. how is a p4 or p5 determined on an instrument in non west? forget logs. what makes it a true 3:2 more than pythagoras method?

John Beaulieu has the details



It's not determined -- it's the natural tuning. From chapter 18 of Sounding the Depths that I quote in my book

Closely related types of instrumental hocket, similar to that of the pipe, flute, whistle, horn and percussion ensembles of Africa, have also been found in roughly the same regions, among indigenous peoples of New Guinea, the Solomon Islands, Indonesia (Flores, Bali, Java, among others), the Philippines, Vietnam, and certain other enclaves in Southeast Asia, and China. We find somewhat similar practices, both instrumental and vocal, in certain villages in Russia and other parts of Europe, both East and West, and also the Andes and other regions of Central and South America. In some cases we hear vocalinstrumental interactions of a very similar type.... While the Chinese myth places the Yellow Emperor and the Yellow Bell well back into a vaguely defined “olden times,” when China itself was being established as a state, according to my version of the myth tuned pipes originated at a much earlier time, before modern humans voyaged out of Africa -- and well before that, to the time before humans learned to speak to one another. And despite all the many tens of thousands of years from that primeval time to this, we still find ensembles of pipes and panpipes, still cut from lengths of cane, still tuned, in a great many cases (though not all), more or less according to the system described in the story of the Yellow Bell, based on the simple whole number ratios, 2/3 and 4/3. Remarkably, we still find, all over the world, musical traditions, both instrumental and vocal, based, more or less, on those exact same ratios.1 And just as the Yellow Bell became the foundation of so much that was central to Chinese civilization, so did the ratios long ago established in the “law of pipes” become the foundation of so much of importance in other civilizations, as, for example, in the pioneering mathematics and physics of the ancient Greeks, where the exact same ratios were “discovered” by Pythagoras. 145

reply to post by fulllotusqigong

The semitone is the difference between the Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth as the Tritone.

The difference between a fourth and a fifth is a tone, not a semitone.

This is kindergarten stuff.

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by fulllotusqigong

 

The semitone is the difference between the Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth as the Tritone.

The difference between a fourth and a fifth is a tone, not a semitone.

This is kindergarten stuff.

The Tritone is the semitone difference between the Perfect Fourth and Fifth.

Yep. Sorry that the sentence wasn't clear to you. haha.

reply to post by DenyObfuscation

but how are they created-measured-repeated. how is a p4 or p5 determined on an instrument in non west? forget logs. what makes it a true 3:2 more than pythagoras method?

There's no point asking the OP. He can't answer this, or any other question put to him.

What makes a 'true' or 'perfect' harmonic interval is simply how sweet the notes forming it sound when played together. The fewer beats there are between the common harmonics generated by the two fundamentals, the truer the interval. This is the same for any culture; it is a fundamental property of musical perception, based upon a fundamental attribute of sound itself.

*

reply to post by fulllotusqigong

The semitone is the difference between the Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth as the Tritone.

The Tritone is the semitone difference between the Perfect Fourth and Fifth.

Sorry that the sentence wasn't clear to you. haha.

It wasn't clear to anyone, and you are wrong again. There is no 'semitone difference' between a fourth and a fifth. The difference is a whole tone.

What you are trying to say is 'the tritone is separated by a semitone from both the fourth and fifth.' Unfortunately, you appear to have profound difficulty expressing yourself in words.

*

This post will by my last on this thread. I am getting bored with it, and besides, I have come to feel sorry for the OP, who I now believe is a mentally ill person.

Be that as it may, my work here is done. The OP has been exposed as knowing nothing whatsoever about the subjects on which he pretends to be an authority. He is clearly ignorant of the physics and mathematics of waves, and understands so little about music that he appears not to know the difference between a tone and a semitone.

In addition, we have learnt that he has not read the works of either Plato or Aristotle although he makes authoritative claims about them; and that, while he makes implicit claims to understand quantum mechanics and relativity, he doesn't have the first idea about them either – however often he evokes the name of de Broglie.

His 'theories' are meaningless confabulations, a half-understood farrago of genuine scientific papers, New Age mystico-babble and the ravings of cranks, all of which he has found and read on the internet. I do not believe that he ever went to university. His claims to have studied physics, mathematics, music, etc. are simply fantasy; no doubt such fantasizing is part of the same condition that makes him unable to express himself clearly in words.

Those wondering if there is any truth in anything the OP says would do well to read this paper on confabulation.

Farewell, Drew Hempel. Get well soon.

Originally posted by Astyanax

edit on 18/2/12 by Astyanax because: of typos and style issues.

Here's a neurological study of the minor 2nd and the Tritone compared to the Perfect Fifth and the Perfect Fourth -- proving that the Perfect 5th/4th have regular neurological wave patterns while the minor 2nd/tritone produce dissonant brain wave neurological patterns -- and the harmonic analysis proves the same using Helmholtz beat model

The study by Tramo et al. (2001) compares the acoustic representation of several intervals and the trains of action potentials produced by the auditory nerve fibers of a population of 100 cats hearing the same intervals. It is important to keep in mind the information presented about the ascending auditory pathway . Auditory nerve fibers are the central axons of the spiral ganglion cells that transmit synaptic information to the cochlear nucleus neurons in the brainstem. When an interval is sounded the nerve fibers corresponding to the frequencies present in that interval will fire. Virtually all information about sound is transmitted to the brain through trains of action potentials produced by these synapses.[3]First the researchers examined the acoustic waveforms and their corresponding autocorrelations (the cross-correlation of a signal with itself, to find disguised repeating patterns) for four different intervals. Two of the intervals, the perfect fourth and fifth, are considered consonant, while the other two, the minor second and tritone, are considered dissonant. When looking at the acoustic representations of the consonant harmonic intervals there is a clear pattern of peaks and the autocorrelation is perfectly periodic. The period of the autocorrelation corresponds to the fundamental of bass of the interval. Yet with the dissonant intervals, there was no true periodicity. Instead the acoustic spikes occurred inconsistently.

There is also a sound pattern showing a Perfect Fifth as 2/3 tuning and then a slightly out of tune Fifth (equal tempered tuning) showing the different in the beat resonance.






Here's my masters thesis quoting Helmholtz on beat harmonics:

eans writes, "on this theory [Helmholtz theory ofbeats] the octave becomes the most perfect of all concords, since none of the harmonics canpossibly beat worse than when one note is sounded alone." He adds "the unpleasantness [beats]remains until the octave of frequency...is reached, at which point [the beats] suddenly disappears."(33)

My masters thesis on music theory and alchemy -- University of Minnesota 2000.

Originally posted by Astyanax

In addition, we have learnt that he has not read the works of either Plato or Aristotle although he makes authoritative claims about them; and that, while he makes implicit claims to understand quantum mechanics and relativity, he doesn't have the first idea about them either – however often he evokes the name of de Broglie.

I never said I didn't read Plato nor Aristotle -- you've made this claim about me without any proof. So you're making stuff up.

Also I mentioned the name of my quantum mechanics professor -- I took quantum mechanics in college. Professor Herbert Bernstein.

Or again as music analyst Berendt cites physicist Jean E. Charon, "Each particle...has its own spin, and all these spins vibrate together in the whole-number proportions of the overtone scale. This then is the prime model of mind and spirit." The World Is Sound, p. 125 citing Jean E. Charon: L'Esprit, cet inconnu (Paris: n.p., 1977).

More on Jean Charon here -- a fascinating quantum physicist!

From my 2000 U of MN masters thesis on music theory and alchemy

An example follows from physicist Nick Herbert in his chapter Wave Motions: The Sound of Music: "Just as sine waves are the natural vibrations of a stretched string, so spherical harmonics are the natural vibrations of an elastic sphere...Whenever a sphere vibrates, certain nodal circles appear where the sphere stands still." The multidimensional implications for quantum theory are derived from Fourier's Theorem that determines the fundamental wave of complex wave-forms by analyzing spatial frequencies, amplitudes and phase relations. Herbert, Quantum Reality, pp. 25-30.

On relativity and the connection to Pythagorean tuning you might want to read this book.

From Pythagoras to Einstein






More details here -- from the Pythagorean Theorem to Einstinein's relativity equation




More on De Broglie's Law of Phase Harmony:

With the relativistic momentum p = m0v and the relativistic energy E = m0c2 we get our expression (9.10) for the moving particle. We have derived the wave behavior of momentum from the wave behavior of energy. Figure (9.2) shows a particle at rest with [wavelength = infinity] (localized by the function Q) and a particle moving downwards with an indication of the time bands in the rest frame of the particle

The de Broglie wave length is inversely proportional to the speed and becomes infinite in the rest frame. Infinite simply means that the phase is equal everywhere in the rest frame. A small change in phase could be interpreted as a shift of the sinusoidal wave function over a distance which is infinite in the limit. The "speed" with which the phase shifts in the rest frame... would thus be "infinite". The phase speed is the inverse of 10 Chapter 9. Relativistic matter waves from Klein Gordon's equation the material speed v. The phase speed only equals the material speed in the limit of c:

We can summarize the results as: The spreading of the wave-function is inversely proportional to the frequency (the phase change rate in time) of the particle, Higher mass particles spread slower. The spreading of the wave-function is proportional to the square of the momentum spread. The smaller the initial volume in which the initial wave-function was contained the faster it spreads and keeps spreading.

Understanding Relativistic Quantum Field Theory Hans de Vries November 10, 2008

de Broglie Wave Mechanics - In 1923, while still a graduate student at the University of Paris, Louis de Broglie published a brief note in the journal Comptes rendus containing an idea that was to revolutionize our understanding of the physical world at the most fundamental level. He had been troubled by a curious "contradiction" arising from Einstein's special theory of relativity. First, he assumed that there is always associated with a particle of mass m a periodic internal phenomenon of frequency f. For a particle at rest, he equated the rest mass energy mc² to the energy of the quantum of the electromagnetic field hf. That is, mc² = hf where h is Planck's constant and c is the speed of light. De Broglie noted that relativity theory predicts that, when such a particle is set in motion, its total relativistic energy will increase, tending to infinity as the speed of light is approached. Likewise, the period of the internal phenomenon assumed to be associated with the particle will also increase (due to time dilation). Since period and frequency are inversely related, a period increase is equivalent to a decrease of frequency and, hence, of the energy given by the quantum relation hf. It was this apparent incompatibility between the tendency of the relativistic energy to increase and the quantum energy to decrease that troubled de Broglie. The manner in which de Broglie resolved this apparent contradiction is the subject of the famous 1923 Comptes rendus note [Comptes rendus de l'Académie des Sciences, vol. 177, pp. 507-510 (1923)].

Another description of the paradox De Broglie discovered in relativity between time and frequency and the inverse proportion Law of Pythagoras

Evidently, Eq. (19b) is just the opposite of Eq. (19a). Indeed, accounting for time dilation leads to the slow down of the "moving clock" frequency, Eq. (19b), whilst accounting for the energy increase of a "moving particle" yields an increased frequency, Eq. (19a). Thus, it is clear that some additional assumption is needed to overcome such a fundamental contradiction. To find the way out of this paradox de Broglie assumed that f in Eq. (19b) is not the frequency of a clock moving with the particle but the frequency of The Dynamical de Broglie Theory 17 a wave accompanying the particle propagating with velocity v p in the direction of motion. The fact that its velocity v p = c2 v is necessarily greater than light speed c, shows that it cannot represent transport of energy. It is a "phase wave".

Annales de la Fondation Louis de Broglie, Volume 32, no 1, 2007 11 The Dynamical de Broglie Theory NIZAR HAMDAN,

Originally posted by Astyanax
[
reply to post by fulllotusqigong

 

The semitone is the difference between the Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth as the Tritone.

The Tritone is the semitone difference between the Perfect Fourth and Fifth.

Sorry that the sentence wasn't clear to you. haha.

It wasn't clear to anyone, and you are wrong again. There is no 'semitone difference' between a fourth and a fifth. The difference is a whole tone.

What you are trying to say is 'the tritone is separated by a semitone from both the fourth and fifth.' Unfortunately, you appear to have profound difficulty expressing yourself in words.

I never said there is a semitone difference between a Fourth and Fifth -- that is so obvious that it's not even worth mentioning.

I had to repeat to you that there is a semitone between the Tritone and the Fourth and the Fifth - since you didn't understand the first time and the second time you tried to claim I didn't understand. So I repeated it a third time for you.

I took piano performance lessons for 15 years -- obviously I know that there's a semitone between the Fourth/Fifth/Tritone.

So again I'm sorry I laughed at you -- I realize it is kind of difficult to put into words if you don't understand basic music theory.

and understands so little about music that he appears not to know the difference between a tone and a semitone

Haha. This is so hilarious. O.K. so

what's a "five of five" then?

Or "tritone substitution"?

How about a false resolution? What chord goes to a false resolution?

Anyone?.... minor sixth!

How about a "diminished 7th chord"?

You still with me?

Obviously I know the difference between a semitone and tone.

I started the OP pointing out the difference -- that 9/8 is the major tone.

Maybe you didn't know the major tone is a whole tone?

Oh well. So you've been going on in a music thread without knowing basic music theory?

haha.

Originally posted by DenyObfuscation
reply to post by fulllotusqigong

 

but how are they created-measured-repeated. how is a p4 or p5 determined on an instrument in non west? forget logs. what makes it a true 3:2 more than pythagoras method?

Between heaven and earth, they say, there is perfect harmony. Now, 3 is the emblem of heaven, 2 is the symbol of earth. If two sounds are in the proportion of 3 to 2 [the perfect fifth interval], they will harmonise perfectly as heaven and earth. All the tubes were cut on the same principle, … The lüs [notes] were divided into two classes, the yang lüs and the yin lüs… Everything in Nature belongs to one of these two grand categories, from whose combinations and reciprocal action results all that exists or takes place in the universe.500

500 J.A. Van Aalst, Chinese Music (Shanghai: Chinese Imperial Customs Service, 1933), p. 8.

I already posted this quote but if you all need me to repeat myself - there you go!

That's how the tuning was made.

As I've now proven this tuning creates the natural periodicity in the neurons -- so it is "created" by the natural overtone harmonics as the naturally pleasing harmonics.

How the basic instruments were made on this principle is given in the quote.