Ron Paul campaign Press Release: Ron Paul WINNING the Battle for Delegates.

reply to post by 27jd


Now that was an exercise in futility. What is more frightening than the obvious incompetence, and out right fraud in our elections is the ignorance that bubbles to the surface to defend it...... and there is so much of it.

reply to post by 27jd


First things first, the regulations comment was actually aimed at your fellow Paul supporter a few posts above you who said, and I quote, "Regulations corrupt". Like I said, mos RP supporters have no idea what their candidate stands for.

To the rest of your right-wing propaganda:

"This country was intended to be 50 states"

That's obviously untrue on it's face, as there were only 13 states at the time of he Articles of Confederation. You do the math.

Aside from that, you're completely overstating the case that the founding fathers wanted all laws to come at a state level, something which is not true. There are plenty of rights, protected by law, in the constitution. On top of that the Supreme Court has over-ruled states rights to create laws, which it has the legal right to do. The whole thing is a balancing act, and any claim that states are the end all be all of legislation is BS.

As far as comprehension problems, you tell me to move to Europe, guess what buddy, I've lived there for years. It is better, in many ways. For one thing people don't endlessly try and claim that corporations can do everything better than the government.

And of course you refuse to acknowledge huge holes in the Libertarian system (e.g. cigarette companies, all of them kill their customers) and you refuse, other than by yelling insults and making up stuff, to engage in a real debate.

reply to post by captainnotsoobvious


Semantics, sure I said 50 states, but you know what I meant.

Again, if you like the European system so much, why are you here trying to bring down America? Our system would be just fine, if we actually abide by the Constitution. We do not at this time, and that's why we have so much corruption and debt. I don't have time to go round and round with you anymore. I'm going to fight for Ron Paul, you fight for Obama, and may the best man win.

Originally posted by Witness2008
Now that was an exercise in futility.

What was an exercise in futility? Reading my post, or me trying to get a point across to the troll?

reply to post by 27jd


I was referring to the troll. Sorry.

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by MegaMind

 

Ron Paul won't be on the ballot, so I can't suggest you vote for him. All the other Republicans are worse than Obama. Vote Obama.

Easy.

Ron Paul is neither a viable or good candidate. Like Chomsky said, US Libertarians are pro-tyranny. They desire a system in which unelected and unaccountable businesses control much more of your life and are even less accountable than they are now.

So yeah, if you think corporate boards are better than democracy, vote Paul.

A MUCH better plan is fixing US democracy, not throwing it out.

It's government interventions and regulations that give these corporations laws to hide behind.

Your view on the economy is way off based, and typical of mainstream incorrect liberal rhetoric.

I highly suggest you read Paul's book "Revolution, A Manifesto", you can get it on ITunes.

In it he explains to detail of why you are wrong, and why he is right. Hopefully it'll open your eyes.

reply to post by Witness2008


No worries, hard to tell tone over the internet sometimes.

reply to post by 27jd


This is crazy. There has always been massive corruption in politics and business in the US. Massive. From bribery to nepotism to illegal competition practices. There's no reason think, at all, that the US following some weird interpretation on the constitution would end that. In fact there no history of what youre claiming is so evident. Show me a historical example of true free Market capitalism producing a better more fair society and a less corrupt political and business class. I won't hold my breathe.

And as usual, you've ignored the fact that the places with the best standard of living, the best education, the best healthcare, and the happiest citizens have MORE intrusive governments than the US and their citizens pay more taxes. Why is that... And why will your hairbrained ideology, with no history of success, radically best systems that massively out perform the US?

Libertarians are like communists. You have these perfect little ideas that would never work in practice. Communists say, "everyone works for everyone else". Libertarians say, "society is best when everyone is c(mpletely selfish".

Neither system takes into account reality.

Finally, it's pretty rude to claim I'm trying to take down America. It's also a lie to claim I support Obama because I think he's great. It's also a huge delusion to think Paul will be the nominee. The best man is gonna be Obama, but only cause the GOP has fielded a massive group of losers.

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
Show me a historical example of true free Market capitalism producing a better more fair society and a less corrupt political and business class. I won't hold my breathe.

Okay, if you really want we can keep going in circles, although I'm going to be busy this weekend at a gold prospecting show, and a Ron Paul sign wave, I have a little time tonight. A true free market would have NO regulations whatsoever. I don't think such a thing has ever existed, and that's NOT, I repeat, NOT what Ron Paul is advocating. He just wants to let state governments handle the regulations, because they know what is best for their population and region much more than the disconnected federal government.

And as usual, you've ignored the fact that the places with the best standard of living, the best education, the best healthcare, and the happiest citizens have MORE intrusive governments than the US and their citizens pay more taxes. Why is that... And why will your hairbrained ideology, with no history of success, radically best systems that massively out perform the US?

Those places are in jeopardy right now, in case you haven't been watching. BIG surprise, once people realize they don't have to work and still get taken care of, less people work. Soon, there's not enough people actually working and giving, instead of just taking, to support everybody who is dependent on hand outs. That's why you're seeing the austerity measures being implemented in those places.

Libertarians are like communists. You have these perfect little ideas that would never work in practice. Communists say, "everyone works for everyone else". Libertarians say, "society is best when everyone is c(mpletely selfish".

Um, wrong. Again, states already have safety nets, paid for by STATE taxes. Also, we are an extremely generous nation. I give to homeless people, as well as charities and I donate whenever there's a natural disaster, etc. We are not selfish, it's not in our nature. I love to help those in need, I just don't like it when it's done at the barrell of a gun.

Finally, it's pretty rude to claim I'm trying to take down America.

You want us to be in the SAME boat as Europe. They can no longer sustain the system.

Originally posted by Jason Paul
I'd loved to see the Ron Paul detractor's create a constructive thread to give us a reason to vote for someone else like Romney, Gingrich, or Santorum.

Please, I'd love to learn why I should support any of them over Ron Paul, and don't tell me "Well they're all bad so I'm not voting" or "Vote Obama" or "Ron Pauls views are X", no, I want to know why so many detractor's value the other three candidates and what those candidates have done so far to make them favorable.

Absolutely, I've made this point over and over myself, always NO takers, ever notice how almost everywhere one goes on the net there doesn't seem to be many people so fired up about a selection for president as they are about Ron Paul, Paul's mainly Libertarian leaning message and one of Liberty absolutely resonates I think with a MAJORITY now days. The movement didn't come from Paul, though they certainly are a great fit and it won't end with Paul, the Liberty movement is growing, people are rejecting the FORCED policy of the Globalists, they reject the constant fraud and deceipt, the never ending wars for profit, the VAST overeach of gov., this is Ron Paul's time to shine IMO, despite the media bias (yes media owners have politics too) this movement isn't going away any time soon.

Originally posted by Tecumte
despite the media bias (yes media owners have politics too) this movement isn't going away any time soon

It sure isn't. I've never been politically active in the flesh, Ron Paul's message has inspired me to become more involved, and I know I'm not alone. I actually attended a state Republican convention and made my voice heard. We influenced the business of that day, and demanded they announce the straw poll results which they tried to brush aside. Many of us are becoming delegates, and P.C.'s, etc. The liberty movement will not end with Ron Paul, we WILL have a place at the table.

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by Tecumte
despite the media bias (yes media owners have politics too) this movement isn't going away any time soon

It sure isn't. I've never been politically active in the flesh, Ron Paul's message has inspired me to become more involved, and I know I'm not alone. I actually attended a state Republican convention and made my voice heard. We influenced the business of that day, and demanded they announce the straw poll results which they tried to brush aside. Many of us are becoming delegates, and P.C.'s, etc. The liberty movement will not end with Ron Paul, we WILL have a place at the table.

That's fantastic, it's great to see the message is being carried far and wide and that people like you care enough to invest their time and energy. Kudos to you!

I would love nothing more than to see Ron Paul at the head of this country, I can't imagine a more dignified person to interact with the rest of the world as well as here at home.

Do I agree with him 100% on everything, obviously not, but on the important things I can't find a closer match.

I find it unfair here some say people that lean 'Libertarian' don't care about their neighbors, what a false stereotype, in fact it's IMO personally speaking the opposite, no wonder so many people who have nothing to gain DIRECTLY and immediately have invested their and energy trying to give back and and allow R. Paul the time to be seen and heard.

Too,I think largely people don't want a world where the sky is buzzing with 20,000 drones with cameras watching citizen's every move. They're sick of the so called 'war on terror' being used as a 'war on privacy and liberty' and on the economy and as a way to get American's being used to a life in a fishbowl and spreadeagled at airport terminals (and soon bus stops and street corners and railway and maybe even your home...).

On and on it goes. I 'm sure I don't need to go into a long list of examples. People are growing tired of it, they see through the manipulations and they want someone to represent THEM not those who are directly profiting off of the very thing they are at the same time creating and perpetuating. I'll go to the polls to vote for R.P., anyone else I'll just stay home and have a cold one (and perhaps stock my 'bunker' a little more, lol )

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by mrnotobc

 

They're not afraid of him; they know he has no chance. Besides he essentially endorsed Romney earlier. On top of all of that there no candidate more pro-business than Paul. And no candidate more willing to let businesses run roughshod over your rights.

Man, you seem very anti-business.

You do realize that you are not forced to do business with corporations you think might be too greedy or that might "run over your rights"? Oh wait, actually I take that back, I was forced to do business with some very large banking institutions over the past few years when our great regulators decided that I should help bail them out once their greed had caught up with them. Good thing we don't let the free market work - in which those greedy banks would have surely collapsed - because they were too big to fail, and their failure would have taken us all down... right?

reply to post by evilod


The reality is quite different.

Business owners would have even more control over government in a Libertarian society and instead of less money flowing to businesses more money would flow, but to monopolised businesses. Leaving you with less money and fewer options.

There is NO evidence of business self-regulating, without regulation.

Lots of people believe this pie in the sky theory without reason. It's overly simplistic.

Businesses will always try and control government: under a libertarian there would be fewer regulations on this. So, more business control of government, higher cost to taxpayers, monopolies, and more gov't money going to businesses.

Btw: I'm not anti-business. I own a small business of sorts. I just believe, as do many many constitutional scholars and average Americans, and businessmen, that the constitution was created to primarily empower individuals, they were empowered before the constitution, but to protect the masses, aka society. The constition is written about all of us, only Libertarians see it as being about protecting Individuals in society from government.

reply to post by 27jd


The main thing that happened in Europe was what happened in the US: Business practices by under-regulated banks, created a bubble. In the EU, mostly, that bubble was used to inflate people's standard of living unrealistically. That business created bubble collapsed and people are being forced to again live with less. And yet. The standard of living here in Ireland for instance, where billions is being removed from social programs to drive down debt, is still higher than in the US. Which you can't explain.

A few other things that governments stopped in Europe:

GMO foods (largely)
BGH in milk
And of course EU countries are (finally) standing up to SOPA!

In the states the power of business over government has made stopping these things impossible. Ron Paul would make this even harder. And guess what, consumers have been able to stop GMO and BGH with their wallets since day one. And they have chosen not to.

Only in places where the government has the power to control business has this stuff been curtailed.

A vote for RP is a vote for full unregulated corporate control of the food supply

Originally posted by evilod
Man, you seem very anti-business.

You do realize that you are not forced to do business with corporations you think might be too greedy or that might "run over your rights"? Oh wait, actually I take that back, I was forced to do business with some very large banking institutions over the past few years when our great regulators decided that I should help bail them out once their greed had caught up with them. Good thing we don't let the free market work - in which those greedy banks would have surely collapsed - because they were too big to fail, and their failure would have taken us all down... right?

In upstate NY we are being forced to deal with poisoned water supplies thanks to the practices of private business that Ron Paul would encourage and protect. Hey, they are only contaminating the water on their private property right?
Oh #, that is not how water works.

A short while back, a long time member (can't remember who) warned that in the election year coming up (2012), the trolls will come out in force. I think we are seeing that.
It is important to remember that you cannot ever win a debate with a troll. They are not interested in truth, they have an agenda. The agenda is to persistently push a narrative, like Paul is racist, or Paul is extreme pro business, or whatever else they think will play on ignorant minds. The purpose is to confuse those that really can't think for themselves, so they pretend there is controversy where none exists.
They all do it.
Ron Paul has made huge gains this time around because of the tireless work of the PEOPLE that believe he is what we need NOW. Anyone that believes in representative government, regardless of whom they currently side with, should applaud his campaign. It is interesting that those that side with his opponents (whom are ALL of them), can't even begin to explain WHY!
They have to resort to trolling, which tells me they are not interested in our form of government at all.

reply to post by SurrealisticPillow


A long while back, I pointed out that anyone that points out any of Ron Paul's numerous human flaws, you will be labeled a troll by his panty sniffing blind worshipers.

Originally posted by SurrealisticPillow
It is interesting that those that side with his opponents (whom are ALL of them), can't even begin to explain WHY!

Is this how the mind of a Ron Paul supporter works?
I do not think Ron Paul is perfect therefore I support ALL OF HIS OPPONENTS?
So if I find a flaw with Ron Paul, I support Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich and Barack Obama?