Missouri teen girl gets 'life' for killing 9yr girl to 'find out what it felt like'...

1) An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

2) To use another old cliche, killing this girl makes us no better than her. Killing her now eliminates any chance of preventing a tragedy such as this in the future.

3) And what if you can blame the drugs? Not that this is about placing blame, but what if the drugs altered her state of mind, allowing the line of thought that supported her curiousity about murder? Drugs have been known to alter your brain, especially antidepressents. Hell, it's what they're designed to do.

1) No it doesn't. Analogies don't work very well here. Realistically, it makes the world a better place because you have less people running around killing for the sake of it.

2) Killing that girl DOES make us better than her because she killed an innocent child for no good reason. We would be killing HER to ensure that senseless crimes like that don't happen again. If you can't see that, I feel sorry for you. How does killing her now eliminate any chance of preventing a tragedy by her hand in the future? That doesn't even make any sense. How does NOT having a killer walking free NOT ensure that it won't happen again? Are you insinuating that it's better for society as a whole to have a killer alive and in a prison that costs taxpayers money to try and rehabilitate them when the prison system isn't set up to reabilitate people, then it is to simply have them killed so you KNOW it will never happen again?

3) I don't care what drugs are designed to do. It's been my experience that drugs accentuate the emotions in a person that the drugs are meant to accentuate. In other words, if you don't have murderous thoughts in the first place, Prozac cannot expound upon that becasue it ISN'T THERE. Drugs don't MAKE you do things. They help bring out your natural propensity to do certain things. What excatly is it that you think drugs are anyway? If Prozac is such an effective anti-depressant, why does it make people more depressed than they were before?

Why do you think bad people keep doing bad things in this world? Becasue they know they have bleeding hearts like you on their side to ensure they have all the human rights as I do. They don't DESERVE the same rights I do. I work hard and obey the law. They don't. And that's only ONE instance I can think of to where they're not my equals. You want good things in this life, you EARN them. You don't go out, kill somebody for the sake of it, and keep living where they shelter and feed you everyday and expect to get any sympathy from me or other likeminded people. Let 'em rot.

If the majority of the people think like you do, then it's no wonder why I don't like many people in this world. You enable people like this girl to keep breeding. You're helping to pollute the gene pool.

Originally posted by CaptChaos
Of course, they don't SPEND anywhere near that on each con, more like 10. They ain't exactly feeding em filet mignon. And YOUR money already paid for the buildings to be built in the first place. 40 grand profit per head. Plus they then put them to work, making stuff for one penny an hour, which the corp. then sells at normal prices. Basically pure profit on top of profit.

You've got to take into account the salaries of the guards, doctors, and administration...but that is a lot of people profiting legally from crime.

There are some people in the world that are just plain evil.

I believe this girl fits that category.

She should never be allowed outside a prison for the safety of the rest of us.

reply to post by n00bUK


Ya and murder in cold blood is acceptable. She should have thought about the consequences of her actions, kill an innocent go to jail. She's lucky we don't follow Hammurabi's Code.

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


Thank you for putting it so thoroughly she gave up her rights when she killed an innocent.

reply to post by Glass


Thank you and it means shortening of the way, a generic term. I try and think of myself more as a mediator understanding the thought processes of both sides. Yes the drugs can alter the state of mind, but we know by logic and gut feeling that murder is wrong.

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
1) No it doesn't. Analogies don't work very well here. Realistically, it makes the world a better place because you have less people running around killing for the sake of it.

I don't believe killing violent offenders is preferable to understanding and attacking the root of the problem, which is whatever causes them to kill in the first place. This "better world" you speak of sounds awfully like the Third Reich, where killing is absolutely acceptable as long as it's justified.

2) Killing that girl DOES make us better than her because she killed an innocent child for no good reason. We would be killing HER to ensure that senseless crimes like that don't happen again. If you can't see that, I feel sorry for you. How does killing her now eliminate any chance of preventing a tragedy by her hand in the future? That doesn't even make any sense. How does NOT having a killer walking free NOT ensure that it won't happen again? Are you insinuating that it's better for society as a whole to have a killer alive and in a prison that costs taxpayers money to try and rehabilitate them when the prison system isn't set up to reabilitate people, then it is to simply have them killed so you KNOW it will never happen again?

So we kill her because she killed someone for no good reason? Following that chain of logic, we would still be killing her for no good reason, and thus would be no better than her.

Killing her now prevents her from killing again, yes. But it also prevents us from understanding what caused her to kill. If we could understand why she was driven to kill, we could progress towards preventing others in similar situations from following the same bloody path.

If you had read my earlier posts, you would know that I do not support her sentance of life in prison with the possibility of parole. I would prefer that she be held in a psychiatric institution for study.

Killing one killer does not stop anyone from becoming a killer in the future. If you can't see that, I feel sorry for you.

3) I don't care what drugs are designed to do. It's been my experience that drugs accentuate the emotions in a person that the drugs are meant to accentuate. In other words, if you don't have murderous thoughts in the first place, Prozac cannot expound upon that becasue it ISN'T THERE. Drugs don't MAKE you do things. They help bring out your natural propensity to do certain things. What excatly is it that you think drugs are anyway? If Prozac is such an effective anti-depressant, why does it make people more depressed than they were before?

I have taken antidepressants before, though not specifically Prozac. In my experience, the drug dulled those thoughts which were causing my depression; guilt, self-loathing, anger, etc. A quick wiki search for Prozac revealed that it is classified as a "Selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor".
(inb4 "wiki isn't credible" I really don't care about your opinion of wiki)
Basically, you're wrong; it doesn't accentuate, it inhibits.

I'm not a psychologist (though I would like to be) but I suspect that the Prozac may have inhibited a natural response of guilt and disgust that would normally proceed from having such thoughts. I know that whenever a disturbing thought pops into my head, it is my feeling of disgust at the idea that stops me from entertaining the thought.

Why do you think bad people keep doing bad things in this world?

Lack of education, resources, security, conscience, compassion, decency...

Any of the above, among others.

Becasue they know they have bleeding hearts like you on their side to ensure they have all the human rights as I do. They don't DESERVE the same rights I do. I work hard and obey the law. They don't. And that's only ONE instance I can think of to where they're not my equals. You want good things in this life, you EARN them. You don't go out, kill somebody for the sake of it, and keep living where they shelter and feed you everyday and expect to get any sympathy from me or other likeminded people. Let 'em rot.

I believe you're misunderstanding my position. You seem to think that I am as emotionally driven as you are. I'm approaching this with a logical and progressive mind rather than beating my chest and screaming for more blood.

If the majority of the people think like you do, then it's no wonder why I don't like many people in this world. You enable people like this girl to keep breeding. You're helping to pollute the gene pool.

The feeling is mutual.

Originally posted by KwisatzHaderach
reply to post by Glass

 

Thank you and it means shortening of the way, a generic term. I try and think of myself more as a mediator understanding the thought processes of both sides. Yes the drugs can alter the state of mind, but we know by logic and gut feeling that murder is wrong.

I understand the Kwisatz Haderach is "the one who brings the shortening of the way" or something like that. It is as you described, a mediator who understands the thought processes of both sides. However you seem to lean towards the emotional "murder is wrong" crowd, which would make you more of a Bene Gesserit than a Mentat.

You mentioned that gut feeling contributes to our moral ideal that murder is wrong. This is important to note, as I believe that the drugs the girl was taking inhibited her gut feeling, allowing her to kill without conscience.

oops

Some more info from local news -

KY3.com - Bustamante apologizes, then gets life term with possible parole for murdering girl

She appologized to the family for what she did so again I dont think there was a menatl deficiency present. She actually has the ability for parole. She plead to 2nd degree murder as well as armed criminal action. The 30 years for the armed criminal action was imposed consecutively instead of concurrently.

For those not familiar a person can have individual charges run consecutively or concurrently, meaning if they are chargedd with 4 different crimes and are found guilty of all 4 crimes, and each crime carries say a 10 year jail term, the judge can sentence her to 10 years (all penalties run at the same time) or 40 years, where each crimes punishment runs one right after the other.

The lesser charge of 2nd murder is what allowed her to be eligible for parole instead of a mandatory life sentence.

reply to post by Glass


Okay. So it's understood that we're on opposite sides of this fence then. That's okay. You have your opinion, I have mine. I understand the jist of your thinking here. You want to study and understand why they do what they do.

Why? So we can treat them and make them better? Haven't we been trying to do that for hundreds of years now? Yes. Do we still have psycho's running loose? Yes. Oh, I'm sorry. Our psychological methods are so much better now. We've advanced our technologies and our understanding of DNA sequences and brain functions, so we can tackle this problem now. If that's the case, again, why do we still have psycho's running the streets?

My best guess would be money my friend. You're right if you assume that we have the technologies and resources to tackle this. I'm sure we do. But the cold, hard fact of the matter is that there's no money in "fixing" these people in order to make a better society. Why would any pharma company, or any other company for that matter, shell out money to fix people when they won't get a return from their investment? If that sounds cold, it's because it is. There's no immediate short term monetary gain in making a better society, but there IS howver tons of money by shoving drugs like prozzzzac down our throats making us want more. And that's the way THEY see it. I certainly didn't make things this way, but that's the way things are and that's what we have to deal with. Big money is making their money at our expense and making our qualities of life worse in the process.

Look, I'm not some chest thumping neanderthal screaming for more blood. I want LESS blood. Read my posts and you'll understand that I'm a civilized, caring individual who just wants peace. But unfortunately we're not going to be able to do achieve that in a civilized manner anymore because that's just the way this world has turned. Money is king and human emotions are just pawns that big money plays to get more. It's chess game gone bad. And you know what? It's working for them. because here we are, at each others throats about this when there is only one realistic solution to this problem. Exterminate the problem. And Nazi Germany isn't even a close comparison in my book because they were no better than the 15 year old girl in this story. They were killing for the sake of it. Or because they wanted to "rule the world". I don't want to rule the world. I want to make it a better place to live on.

I'm sorry, but the "civilized" way of dealing with this problem simply doesn't work. If it did, we wouldn't be having this conversation would we? Instead, we just have more and more problems compounding upon each other making things even worse still. And please don't say that things like this take time. We've had all the time in the world to fix this problem ever since we could start recoognizing evil people for what they are.

I respect your opinion because I really do wish we could do what you suggest. I also respect the way you get your point across; in a civilized and articulate manner.

I just don't agree with you on this matter, that's all.

youtu.be...

reply to post by kerazeesicko


I've no idea what you've seen in your life, or haven't seen... I've no wish to offend, but I'd like to answer that. If I do offend, I apologize in advance.

In my life time, I've met three truly evil men. I mean looked into their eyes, and saw what dwells inside.

Micheal Andrew Olds

This man, if I may use the term, killed his way across the U.S. until he was caught in Pennsylvania. I met him on two occasions...and I prayed never to do so again. I was only thirteen at the time, yet I knew evil when I met it. That man scared me down to my toes.

There are people who define what it means to be evil... They are, because they want to be. They wouldn't be anything else if given a choice. They derive pleasure from hurting others. It's fun.

To help someone, that someone must want to be helped. If they don't want the help? In some cases the safety of society demands the ultimate in guarantees...death.

I don't particularly like Capital Punishment... It doesn't deter in the slightest. But certain cases seem to merit it. Does this young lady? I don't know...I wasn't on the jury. I didn't get to look into her eyes, as it were.

The Death penalty is the ultimate solution to a particular societal problem, an individual who has proven beyond any mortal doubt that he, or she, is willingly unable to function within society without causing grievous harm to others. It has its place. Sorry you disagree, but I thought you could use another point of view.

While I cant blame the curiosity, I think she should have picked someone older and with a purpose.

If I want to know how it feels like to take a human life, I'll prolly choose some pedophile, rapist or something around it to test my curiosity... not a 9 year old innocent. Plus I would be doing society a favor so I wouldnt care if I would get caught or not... but I would prolly try to get away with it also, just to see how good forensics really are when you chop a body in tiny pieces and carry it over 900miles, feeding a piece to each stray dog you see...

reply to post by Glass

Well Glass, you've made a series of great arguments with your posts and you did get me to think about this and really look into it. It's done two things.

First, I do tend to agree with you.

Second, I think that agreement comes with the caveat that this is the wrong case to make the point with.

Agreement would come in the points you're making about anti-psych drugs contributing to bad behavior and how that needs to be more closely monitored and reacted to when problems become evident.

This really isn't the case to make that argument with by any stretch though. This is an evil creature in the body of a human female. If that is a bit colorful in descriptions, I don't believe it's off by much. Not much at all. I say that for a few reasons...

1. She dug the grave five days in advance.
   
2. There were TWO graves there, not one. The 2nd one was empty....at the time.
   
3. She led them to the body and even the FBI agent who handled it was stuck by how cold and indifferent she seemed in doing it.
   
4. Prozac came into her life because she is a disturbed (read: BAD) individual well before this murder.
   
5. She lured the victim into the woods with the promise of play, ambushed her and then killed her in an especially heinous way. A Special Circumstances way......and this STARTED as a 1st Degree Murder case. Not 2nd.
   

The above points and quite a bit more can be found across these articles that link out beyond the original post sentencing story:

ozarksfirst.com...
ozarksfirst.com...
ozarksfirst.com...
www.sltrib.com...

This was basically a local news story where I live. Now, I understand your concern about her getting out..but don't worry about that. If she ever walks out of lockup again, it won't be as a woman young enough to pose a problem to anyone but herself. The Judge saw to that.

It's a detail many missed, apparently, because it isn't all that common to see happen. However, there is a word in the story that means the difference between parole and life for her future. Consecutive. That means she can BEGIN her armed criminal action sentence when she's all done with her inmate time on the Murder 2 she has plead guilty to. She MAY get out some day.....but it'll be a LONG LONG time from now. A VERY LONG time from now. I love the Judge for that. He came as close to executing her as he possibly could have, given the 2nd degree nature of the plea bargain in the case.


So, Glass, if we can find a case where the individual isn't a walking, talking representation of evil on Earth, I'll be open to considering psych drug influence as a contributory factor. In this case? The drugs may have kept the 2nd hole from having a body in it, as well. It sure didn't cause the first one, given the history of the girl we're talking about here.

i live in missouri.....this is kinda Fkd up! Maybe ill try it (im a teenager) lol JK

Life in Prison for a 15 year old?

There is nothing "just" about this. Nothing can bring the little 9 year old back to life.

If the jury doesn't think the 15 year old can be salvaged, then she needs to be put down like a rabid animal. If she can be saved, then she needs to get intense therapy and not spend her life in jail.

Personally, I'd vote for putting her down. Soon.

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


Man I love you!! I really, really love you!! You should run for president, you would have my vote in an instant!! I promise you that if this girl had killed one of "their" daughters, they would be singing a different tune. People have excuses for everything...my parents were so mean, I grew up in a bad neighborhood, I'm depressed, I was bullied. You know what, we all have our cross to bear and some of them are REALLY heavy. Being downtrodden does not a murder make......

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
While I cant blame the curiosity, I think she should have picked someone older and with a purpose.

If I want to know how it feels like to take a human life, I'll prolly choose some pedophile, rapist or something around it to test my curiosity... not a 9 year old innocent. Plus I would be doing society a favor so I wouldnt care if I would get caught or not... but I would prolly try to get away with it also, just to see how good forensics really are when you chop a body in tiny pieces and carry it over 900miles, feeding a piece to each stray dog you see...

Watching a little bit too much Dexter?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Well done, Wrabbit. Well done indeed. I think you may have slaughtered my argument with cold hard facts! Don't think I'm done just yet though. Im writing this with my phone right now and I don't have the patience to tap out a full rebuttal with my thumbs. I'll get back to you, as well as Mick Jagger over there (sorry, I don't recall your username Mick, just the pic ) at my earliest convenience.

At 15 yrs old a person knows the difference between right and wrong and understands life and death. As the girl herself wrote in her diary "

As soon as you get over the 'ohmygawd I can't do this' feeling,

t's pretty enjoyable. I'm kinda nervous and shaky though right now.

She clearly knew what she did was wrong but got a sick kind of enjoyment out of it. She also dug a grave ahead of time knowing she would need to try to hide and cover up her act of cruel violence.

She gets NO MERCY from me. She deserves what ever punishment she gets and then some.