Missouri teen girl gets 'life' for killing 9yr girl to 'find out what it felt like'...

I'd just like to point out that depression isn't actually just a "sad feeling", in most cases its a neurochemical imbalance, that leaves the sufferer feeling a lack of energy, motivation, unable to sleep, and when they do sleep, unable to wake up.

Yes, it sometimes makes you feel sad, but thats only a relatively minor symptom of a much more pervasive condition.

reply to post by capzzz


I disagree about giving a killer a second chance. I have a daughter of my own, and if she was killed I'd want justice to be served... and if the law fails to do it, I'll do it myself. Consequences be damned.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by hapablab

 

reply to post by lampsalot

 

I understand guys/gals, but yeah, we're off topic here.

We can start a thread about grief if you like. It's a very personal process....

to try to re-rail the thread; people who feel only satisfaction at the death of another whose death for whom they are directly responsible, are of a completely different mindset.
We can't fathom their thinking, their reactions. Because that thinking, that reaction, is monstrous.

What do I want to happen to this girl?

Well, I hope that while she is segregated from society she is attended to, and counseled (which I'm sure she will be); and that one day she might be able to feel genuine remorse. Having said that, I doubt she will, unless (like Evil_Santa says), there is a new therapeutic method that can somehow awaken her humanity, erase her damage, and allow her to live a life that encompasses atoning for what she's done, advocating for victims, furthering research and treatment to deal with those who behave in a like manner,

and eventually come to a place of peace, ownership of what she did, and a dedication to making amends.
Do I think it's possible???

Eh. I don't know.

You sound both rational and compassionate. It's a breath of fresh air amidst all the 'crucify her' comments!

Originally posted by andersensrm
No she, and she alone is responsible for what she did. Sure there are outside factors, but we ALL have those. She killed that girl, and they should just kill her.

Yes because human beings are islands.

Originally posted by BMorris
I'd just like to point out that depression isn't actually just a "sad feeling", in most cases its a neurochemical imbalance, that leaves the sufferer feeling a lack of energy, motivation, unable to sleep, and when they do sleep, unable to wake up.

Yes, it sometimes makes you feel sad, but thats only a relatively minor symptom of a much more pervasive condition.

Everything a person does, causes a neurochemical imbalance, when your sad, angry, when you eat, run, sleep. This doesn't say much.

Originally posted by 0cryptic0truth0
reply to post by capzzz

 

I disagree about giving a killer a second chance. I have a daughter of my own, and if she was killed I'd want justice to be served... and if the law fails to do it, I'll do it myself. Consequences be damned.

Do you think your daughter would relish the idea of you honouring her name with blood?

reply to post by lampsalot


What????

Originally posted by lampsalot

Originally posted by 0cryptic0truth0
reply to post by capzzz

 

I disagree about giving a killer a second chance. I have a daughter of my own, and if she was killed I'd want justice to be served... and if the law fails to do it, I'll do it myself. Consequences be damned.

Do you think your daughter would relish the idea of you honouring her name with blood?

No because she would be dead.

reply to post by wildtimes


Thank you for bringing the thread back on-topic, as well as sharing your emotional experiences with us - and everyone else who has.

I would like to go a bit further into what neurofeedback is, as I say it's a "newish" form of therapy but the theory of it, and research on it, has been on-going since the 70's.

The brain has various states of electrical activity that it goes through during different states of mind. These have been classified as brainwaves, and most people that have taken any type of psychology course can identify the four wave types; alpha, beta, delta and theta. This electrical activity can be monitored by placing a sensor (electrode) on the surface of the scalp and have the power of the electrical activity output to a meter (EEG device).

The theory is that by monitoring this activity in real-time, a therapist can retrain abnormal brainwaves through positive 90% reinforcement, or to be more technical, by using the theory of Classical Conditioning ( en.wikipedia.org... ) as was popularized by a Russian researcher who trained his dog to salivate every-time he rang a bell.

It has only been due to recent advances in technology and computing that this therapy has moved from research institutes to being available in clinical environments.

So here's what a neurofeedback session is.

Once the abnormal patterns are identified, the therapy session is done using a single electrode on the area that training is going to take place. After being "hooked-up" they also put on headphones and spend the session in-front of a computer that's running the neruofeedback software. This software takes the brainwave data from the EEG sensor, and then compares it to the goal that the therapist has set for the session, and rewards the person's brain in real-time for conforming to this goal. Prior to the session the person will choose music that they like, or a movie/tv show to watch and this is their "reward" during the session. When the brainwaves deviates from the goal, the software makes the volume of the music become quieter, or the video of the show/movie become darker. In 80% - 90% of humans their brains will naturally adjust to the negative feedback and return to the goal zone to be rewarded, and the session lasts for approximately 30 minutes before being completed. That's it! It's non-invasive, there's no surgery involved. The only condition is that in order for a person to see results they need to have 3 sessions a week - in the same way a person needs to workout 3 times a week to see results with the rest of their muscles.

Most people are done with neurofeedback therapy after 40 sessions, but in the case of this girl and more difficult disorders to treat, 100 - 150 sessions would be necessary. This is also part of the problem of it being a main-street therapy for people, because even though this therapy is FDA approved, and accepted by the American Psychiatry Association, medical insurance companies generally do not approve it and thus refuse to pay out claims for it. At a cost of around $80 - $120 per session, and having three sessions a week, the costs add-up rapidly to around $960 - $1440 per month which is beyond the means for most people with psychological conditions. There is good news though, the BCIA (Biofeedback Certification International Alliance www.bcia.org... ) which is the main governing agency of nerofeedback certification saw a 40% increase in certified practitioners last year - with most of them being neurofeedback certification.

This link provides a much better explanation of what neurofeedback is: www.isnr.org...

Research on neurofeedback is ongoing and every year more positive journals are published for it's efficiency, and it's not just for sociopaths! Here's a list of all the disorders with significant published research showing positive results.

Addiction, Anxiety, Attachment Disorder, Autism, Autoimmune Dysfunction, ADHD/ADD, Chronic Pain, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Conduct Disorders, Depression, Eating Disorder, Epilepsy, Fetal Alchohol Syndrome, Learning Disabilities, Migraine, Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, Pre-Menstrual Syndrome, Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, Sleep Disorders, Stroke, Tourette’s Syndrome, Traumatic Brain Injury, Borderline Personality Disorder, Dissociative Identity Disorder, Cognitive Decline in the Elderly, Parkinson’s Disease

That list is taken directly from this link: www.eegspectrum.com... And you can go to that site, and click on any of the disorders to be linked to published material.

I need to also put forward this warning. This is a very powerful therapy and should only be done by licensed providers! Improper use of neurofeedback can result in mania, anxiety, depression and other.

Crazy, poor think pray for both of them

Originally posted by lampsalot
Do you think your daughter would relish the idea of you honouring her name with blood?

I don't believe in an eye for an eye usually, but taking the life if an innocent little girl is no small crime. There must be punishment.

Originally posted by 0cryptic0truth0

Originally posted by lampsalot
Do you think your daughter would relish the idea of you honouring her name with blood?

I don't believe in an eye for an eye usually, but taking the life if an innocent little girl is no small crime. There must be punishment.

Punishment sure, I'm not just saying we should pretend it didn't happen, but not blood for blood.

Originally posted by 0cryptic0truth0

Originally posted by lampsalot
Do you think your daughter would relish the idea of you honouring her name with blood?

I don't believe in an eye for an eye usually, but taking the life if an innocent little girl is no small crime. There must be punishment.

I completely agree - this is no small crime and there needs to be some form of punishment. I would have been happy with a 10 year sentence in addition to substantial therapy to reform this troubled girl.

Her actions, while most people are unable to understand them, should be a clear signal that this is a very emotionally disturbed individual and we should be trying to understand why she felt that murder was necessary for her to do. I suspect that due to the abandonment/neglect she experienced as a child. She also most likely never emotionally bonded with her parents (based on the knowledge that they're drug-addicts and her father is in prison) and suffered abuse as a baby. Imagine growing up in a house where the people who gave you life and are supposed to love and care for you, instead yell and hit you anytime you're crying because you're hungry or just *snip* yourself. Would you learn to trust and love those people? Would you be capable of loving and trusting yourself, because every-time you tried to say something was wrong it was turned against you? Would you be capable of being human and having all of the emotions everyone else has around you? What actions would you take in an attempt to try and have emotions?

It's quite clear that this girl didn't care about being caught for her actions, because she posted that she had killed someone to her myspace page! She didn't try to cover it up, or hide it, and she told the world that it had happened. She told the world that she had done something which resulted in her feeling positive emotions, and was so excited about it, she had to share it with the world!

This is someone that we should be trying to understand and help, not condemn, because she made an extremely irrational mistake. There are true monsters in the world, people that are born this way, who have no evidence of a troubled childhood and cold-blooded monsters. Ted Bundy is one of those people - born to a rich family, had a positive nurturing environment growing up and still ended up as a psychopathic serial-killer. These people are the exception to the rule, and are without redemption or help. I would say that 99% of what society consider "cold-blooded killers" do not fit into that category, and are the products of traumatic/abusive childhoods - as is the case with this girl.

So to everyone in this thread who's advocating the death penalty, or locking her up for life I ask you this.

With all the evidence I've presented here about these conditions, and the scientific data that shows she has an 80% - 90% chance of being treated and living out a life as a human, and not some locked away monster, do you have the right to condemn, and deny her of having a chance at a fulfilling life?

reply to post by lampsalot


N

Do you think your daughter would relish the idea of you honouring her name with blood?

No. It would be vengeance, pure and simple. I make no great claims to sainthood. I'd be an angry, grieving parent, and the monster that took my baby would be joining her in the afterlife. Very simple.

She needs to stay in prison and rot there at leats she didn't get the easy way out and get the death penalty

what a sickening act for someone that young to kill someone so young ..... baffles the mind really

Looks like she needs a lifetime of therapy, not prison.

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by lampsalot

 

N

Do you think your daughter would relish the idea of you honouring her name with blood?

No. It would be vengeance, pure and simple. I make no great claims to sainthood. I'd be an angry, grieving parent, and the monster that took my baby would be joining her in the afterlife. Very simple.

At least you're honest about being a slave to having irrational actions based on your emotions. She is the same way.

I'm going to present an alternative to your "kill them" response. Would it not be more human to try and help the person who murdered your child and possibly develop a mutually rewarding relationship with them that helps you understand your the cause of their irrational actions and deal with the emotions, as well as help them to understand the pain that they caused you?

We're all humans and we all capable of feeling, but only through trying to understand and help each other through the trials of life will we be able to move forward as a race and stop the mindless blood-shed that's been a part of our society for thousands of years.

Regardless of the justice involved in the sentence, for the safety of the public, people who commit acts such as this one in the manner it was apparently committed need to be removed from society by either confinement or death.

Even though some people would love to give this girl another chance, I think the biggest importance is giving the victims family closure or justice, even if this isn't it enough...

They just lost one of their loved one, who was only a little girl, she had barely even begun her life. And the person who killed her is getting another chance - which the victim will never be able to get. Absolutely unfair if you ask me. Like a slap in the face for them.

If someone ever hurt my family, like this girl did, I wouldn't let him/her see another day. Especially if they showed no remorse. Like others pointed out, they way she described it made me imagine her as a bloody thirsty animal.

reply to post by Evil_Santa


I have no problem with reform, as long as it is successful. I have a problem with long prison terms. I believe we should devote our resources to reforming the ones that can be reformed, and expediting appeals and euthanizing the ones that cannot be reformed, and no prison term longer than about 5 years should ever be necessary.

I'm not against reform, I read your posts, and I'm not sure I believe the results yet, but if the results can be repeated successfully then fine. My issue isn't with reforming people, my issue is with the penal system. A 25 to life penalty, with no chance of reform, and very little hope of ever getting out, is just cruel and unusual punishment with no end purpose. What is the point of just punishing someone for an entire lifetime?