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It is not just Iran vs USA in Strait of Hormuz

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posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 


You are the warmonger. I am saying that we do not need to go to war with Iran yet you want to. Meaning you are the warmonger.




posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
 



In retaliation for sanctions or an american/israeli attack upon Iran.


An attack upon Iran does not support America's strategy, which is economic in nature. Israel, despite claims to the contrary, is incapable of delivering the sort of precision attack it can justify in the court of world opinion. If Iran is crazy enough to attack a tanker without provocation, China, India and Japan will demand that the US fulfill its promise to safeguard traffic in the Strait. The missiles will have been tracked back to their launch point and that facility will be eliminated. Then the Iranian government can explain to the world again that it only wants peace, and America is just lucky it chooses not to do anything further at this time.



posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
 



You are the warmonger. I am saying that we do not need to go to war with Iran yet you want to. Meaning you are the warmonger.


Funny, I keep pointing out how neither the US or Israel would find it in their best interests to attack Iran, yet you keep fantasizing about the US Navy being incinerated, and Iran launching missiles at a civilian oil tanker. What's up with that?



posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 


You are the warmonger. I am saying that we do not need to go to war with Iran yet you want to. Meaning you are the warmonger.


Would you please specify where I am the war monger?

I will gladly link your own threads where you are advocating and prodding the idea of the destruction of American forces if you like....

This very thread where you were called out on it multiple times is a prime example.....

China has no interest in doing Anything to the US, if anything Iran is a liability , they stand more of a chance of cashing in if something were to happen to them and they could tap into their oil reserves....

You should really research more....



posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
 


Thank you for the thread, you have caused me to look at the situation in a whole new light I have never seen before. It certainly is a "hectic" area with a lot of marked territory which keeps getting pissed on, something's bound to happen.



posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 07:18 PM
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You again,always doomsaying about the US military. why don't you just use the old "stupid,fat, dumb Americans" analogy like those "might makes right" Muslim Supremacists?If we take off our gloves and the friggin Whitehouse gets out of the way the US military is going to do just fine in ANY conventional conflict,if given a clear mission.Not to mention the fact that oil is at stake and NOBODY will be allowed to screw with that.That would be worse than separating the CIA from drug profits which didn't work out so well for Noriega.I remember the S2 telling us how we would loose 50% of 1/7 Cav when we deployed to Desert Shield.I responded with the fact that a war would take about a week,unless they used chems and then things might take longer but we would get ugly about it.He too stated I shouldn't be too overconfident.
We'll have the air in a month at the most,all they want to do is to take out the nuke sites.We will not need heavy ground for that,our air power will do.We definitely will see greater losses than Iraq though.I just hope this time the uprising is supported unlike the one we failed to assist with in the 1st Gulf War.And when China steps up nobody uses their nukes.



posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 07:25 PM
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Persian Gulf War vet here.

The Straits can be a bit hairy, in that if missiles are launched at your ship at one point in the straights you have about 17 seconds to respond (that was with the Terrier missile system).

The USN's CIWS can be quite effective even with this threat, as long as it has time to detect, lock and then engage the inbound. The idea is that you don't sink a ship with one single missile. You need to have what we call a "Mass Conflagration" of missiles. This overwhelms a ships defense systems, so that some of the missiles get through.

How bad would it be? I worked on the AN/SPS-48(V)C radar while stationed on board the USS MacDonough, DDG-39 (now decomed and sitting in Philly gathering rust), and the became an instructor at Fleet Mine Warfare in Charleston, SC, teaching how to use the Harpoon cruise missile system. Details on the warhead are still classified, but I can tell you this:
If you're on a cruiser sized or smaller ship, just one missile getting through is going to be a VERY bad day for the ship.
Carriers would require more missiles, but then that's the point of doing a STOT (Simultaneous Time On Top) with your missiles. To overwhelm a ship's defenses.

Does this mean they are helpless? For that ship that got hit, it will be bad and very bad. However, we in the navy don't "go it alone" hehehehehe. We have support based operations that always include carrier support, and support from other ships providing AAW and ASW coverage (Anti-Air Warfare and Anti-Submarine Warfare). The biggest threat to the USN over there is FAB's, Fast Attack Boats. However, once missiles begin to fly, every ship over there will be in a "Red and Free" state on their weapons. ANY craft approaching a US Naval warship that is unidentified, will be shot out of the water. I've seen a 25mm gun that was installed on my ship. Looked like something out of Star Wars (has laser sightings), and the 25mm rounds are explosive. You do NOT want to be on a FAB when one of those rounds connect with your little boat....

As for a response if TSHTF, All missiles are tracked, not to mention intelligence which is provided by many things (satellite, EWAC's and ground...yes ground forces...what do you thing the Navy Seals do when they aren't kicking pirate butt? They gather intel), and a response will be launch, by both SMS missiles and from fighter craft. AC-130's can be brought in too to help.
It won't be very pretty for Iran's missile batteries.

Then we wait for the word "Go". That's when the tomahawks fly. Nasty critters them. I wish my RGM-84D's had been as sophisticated as those puppies.

Things can go wrong, and do, but even so, if Iran were to decide to start shooting at US Naval forces in the
Gulf? Well for them to steal a quote from Indiana Jones: "They chose.....POORLY."

That aside: China and Russia. Good friends of Iran. I'm sure that once the "nuke" sites in Iran are taken out (and only after that), both Russia and China would step in and warn the US and Israel off, or they'll get involved. Which we more than likely would.......
And then Russia and China, being the very good friends that they are with Iran, will help them get back on their feet, rebuild things.........so long as they let this Russian base be here and here, and China get's a base here and there.....and I can see both those countries going: "OH, BTW - about all this oil you have here........"

To which we'll be buying oil from THEM from then on!
OH!:




posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 07:34 PM
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reply to post by eriktheawful
 

I do concur(Gulf War cav scout)



posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 10:49 PM
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reply to post by eriktheawful
 

I think military people always have immense pride in what they do. Maybe too much.

But nice post. Enjoyed reading.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 08:48 AM
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reply to post by DJW001
 


That's not true at all.

Iran is already replacing customers, and even allied countries like India are giving the sanctions their middle finger.

Iran won't go down like many americans are assuming it will. The U.S. and Israel along with Europe just started to poke the wrong country.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by Tifozi
 



That's not true at all.

Iran is already replacing customers, and even allied countries like India are giving the sanctions their middle finger.

Iran won't go down like many americans are assuming it will. The U.S. and Israel along with Europe just started to poke the wrong country.


Really? Can you provide a source for any of those statements that isn't PressTV?



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by Rocky Black
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
 


LGM118A ring a bell.

That would make them think otherwise.

Are you kidding me they would site by and do nada.

If they F with us then no debt. Thats right you get #.


yeah and then no dollar, brilliant.




worse case the do something and we take out their sats and send them back to the stione age with an EMP from an E37B..



Sorry do you think they would really do something.

listen we send our weekest war ship through there. They were in there laying mines and trying to simulate a shut down.

They have no testicular fortitude.

It takes a real man.

A MARINE.

They are not Marines.

They are mice.



all i could do was chuckle at this half, i mean really?



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 09:01 AM
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reply to post by Rocky Black
 


Spoken like a true American...

No need for a second line...



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 09:02 AM
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The oil will be gone in fifty years anyway, so what difference does it make?
All this killing will have been for nothing. For the ghost of a beast that tricked us all.........



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 09:45 AM
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reply to post by DJW001
 


Is this crappy news channel good enough for you?

India defies sanctions, won't cut Iran oil imports


India has joined China in saying it will not cut back on oil imports from Iran, despite stiff new U.S. and European sanctions designed to pressure Tehran over its nuclear program.
"It is not possible for India to take any decision to reduce the import from Iran drastically because, after all, the countries which can provide the requirement of the emerging economy, Iran is an important country amongst them," India's finance minister Pranab Mukherjee told reporters Sunday in Chicago.

India and China together accounted for 34 percent of Iran's oil exports from January to September of 2011 -- slightly more than Europe, according to International Energy Agency data.


I'm still amazed how some people in ATS talk to other members like they actually know what they are talking about, when bashing countries, not being aware of the consequences of collective opinion shifts, demonizing countries that are being played into a possible war.

Pseudo-intellectualism at it's best.
edit on 9/2/12 by Tifozi because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by Tifozi
 



Is this crappy news channel good enough for you?



[David Hartwell] said India and China could just be trying to buy time to diversify their oil supplies and may steer away from Iran, especially if Saudi Arabia -- India's largest source of oil imports -- were to ramp up production and offer an attractively priced alternative...

[Edit for brevity --DJW001]

India and China are ravenous energy consumers and rely heavily on imported oil. Iranian oil accounts for 9 percent of India's oil consumption and 6 percent of China's, according to the latest data from the IEA.
Iran exports 2.5 million barrels of oil per day, about 3 percent of world supplies. About 500,000 barrels go to Europe and most of the rest goes to China, India, Japan and South Korea.
China has called for negotiations over Iran's nuclear program. South Korea has been non-committal about the sanctions, and Japan is seeking an exemption, saying its Iranian oil imports have steadily declined and probably will continue to do so.


Your own source.

In other words, India, China and Japan are too dependent on Iranian oil to honor the embargo. Please do not confuse this with political support for the regime. Now what about those "new customers" you mentioned?



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by jrmcleod
reply to post by Rocky Black
 


Spoken like a true American...

No need for a second line...


Spoken like a false patriot and warlover
No need for a second line



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by xavi1000

Originally posted by jrmcleod
reply to post by Rocky Black
 


Spoken like a true American...

No need for a second line...


Spoken like a false patriot and warlover
No need for a second line



^ what he said.


A real man is all about peace and love. just because your a marine doesnt make you any better than any other person rocky.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 02:11 PM
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I notice the OP hasnt come back to refute any of these claims or clarify his position on anything he posted...

Just curious ATS, how long do you plan to let intentional trolls run the boards before something is done about tthem...

Theres a difference between expressing opinion and what is CLEARLY goading people into a knee jerk response for the "lulz"

PROFESSIONAL, you are being very UN-professional here...


Please clarify your position,and provide evidence of the accusations you directed at me earlier in the thread



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 05:25 PM
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Russia and China are at this table, with all of the others because a deal
has to be done somewhere. All of the posturing is to strenghen there hand
in what they get from the aftermarth.This is an all about energy, and control
if isral and the US want to get rid of the iranian nuclear program they will
have to agree to terms with China and Russia about what they are willing to
let passed before actining. The dog and pony show is about jostling for position,
this will become more crittical When/ If erop goes bust. as for the US fleet being
incinerated, well there are two or three airaft carrier in the region, bases in afganistan
B2 spirit bombers, submarines a whole bunch of other bad assed technology which
Iran is awear of, destroying ships or cutting the stait would give the americans
a resonable excuse to unleash some of these puppies. Iranians arn't suicidal
and there playing a long game, all this is just posturing for the near term energy
future.



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