It's never a secret. Here's a slideshow for you. Study those images well. Some are just too lazy to look. They want the answers given to them. Never learning anymore. Sad.

[url=http://web.archive.org/web/20020803223606/[/url] <--- Go there.

www.nwc.navy.mil/newrulesets/NRSSummaryBrief.htm <-- Paste that.

Originally posted by emberscott
It's never a secret. Here's a slideshow for you. Study those images well. Some are just too lazy to look. They want the answers given to them. Never learning anymore. Sad.

[url=http://web.archive.org/web/20020803223606/[/url] <--- Go there.

www.nwc.navy.mil/newrulesets/NRSSummaryBrief.htm <-- Paste that.

No, I'm not lazy, nor am I particularly interested in typical forum name-calling nonsense. Maybe we could discuss issues instead.

I am thinking that you did not actually read the entire post, or perhaps you just couldn't understand it. I am not saying that rich and powerful people are not doing bad things. I am saying that this has always happened in every single situation ever in history, and what we have now is not qualitatively different than any other normal abuses of power by the ruling class in combination with the forces of capital, it is simply been put on steroids by the development of technology. Everything that is happening can easily be explained in those terms, and thus an unprovable "secret elite conspiracy" is simply a fiction.

I mean, do you expect the ruling class to be kind and caring toward peasants? Do you expect corporations to do anything other than increase profits? Where is the secret conspiracy of "evil elite"? This is simply the machinations of power.

I hope that others will read the whole post before making reactionary posts arguing with things I never began to imply, as that is unproductive, and this is a very important discussion.

The favourite method of debunking and ridiculing realities - label them as "conspiracies" - imply that they are FANTASIES instead of FACTS.

See how it works?

At this stage of the game, believing everything is chalked up to "economics" is simple denial. Sorry.
The richest families already own the majority of wealth. And yet it is relentless, they want MORE.
Answer what it is they want and you'll see the evil.

Originally posted by andreoutlaw

Wouldn't it be better if we just looked at reality for what it was...

What is it?

Originally posted by emberscott

Originally posted by andreoutlaw

Wouldn't it be better if we just looked at reality for what it was...

What is it?

Everything is obvious. There is no need to postulate fantasies about secret evil people. That is like a child imagining monsters under the bed when he hears a noise. It is naive. There is no other place that society could be than where it is right now, given the progression of technology. It isn't a conspiracy.

If you disagree, then tell me where and we can discuss it. I have laid out many different points here that you can state your objection to, if you are objected. I think that world government and population control are a good place to start, since the factors involved are so blatantly obvious.

Again, I am not saying that the government and various other institutions of power are not using conspiracies to get things done, merely saying that all they are doing is what is necessary to sustain and progress the present system we all exist within. The only thing you can argue with is their means of doing so, viz "we need less war and more propaganda". Arguing over the necessity of the changes makes zero sense.

I, for one, have never bought into the whole mass depopulation theory crap. To me it's pretty simple:

The elite are elite because of their power. Power obtained and maintained through financial means. Money that that made off of average citizens. No money, less power. Less people, less money.

No people - no money- no power.

Doesn't add up to me.

Not to mention that any kind of chemical attack or physical detonation would also put at risk all of their own family members, but more importantly -- their puppets. Can't control the strings if the puppet gets cut loose.

And to argue that they will all be shipped to "safety" before the depopulation "event" is even sillier IMO.

So if absolutely everything that is happening on the planet can be explained without needing to postulate a global conspiracy of elite manipulators, why do people insist on believing it exists?

First, you haven't demonstrated that "everything that is happening on the planet can be explained" at all. In fact, there are a lot of contradictions in this thread.
Your source material implies that there is no conspiracy, that it is all happening out in the open. This is where I disagree, and there exists much, much data to support the fact that is in NOT all out in the open. There are hidden agendas as well as not so hidden agendas to,
1. depopulate certain areas of the world where resources are coveted,
2. make secret payments to dictatorial governments to insure brutal control over their populations,
3. dumb down the people through the school systems,
4. suppress cures of diseases like cancer to insure the profits of huge pharmaceutical companies,
and on and on and on.

Your source material seems to suggest that it is out in the open AND necessary AND all a necessary evolutionary and economic necessity. Bull #.

Originally posted by andreoutlaw

Originally posted by emberscott

Originally posted by andreoutlaw

Wouldn't it be better if we just looked at reality for what it was...

What is it?

If you believe what you say and are willing to stand by those convictions, then why seek to expand or reinforce with debate. Are you unsatisfied? Is there something lacking in your perceived concepts of the world around you?

"Arguing over the necessity of the changes makes zero sense."

And yet here you are. Now there is a reality situation. You assume technological progress, yet you still enjoy the wheel.Strange.

"Everything is obvious."

Relative to the observer.

"There is no need to postulate fantasies about secret evil people."

Fantasy in regard to your perception, secret to you.

"That is like a child imagining monsters under the bed when he hears a noise. It is naive."

Imagination, ah yes, the strange ability to perceive and conceive, the mental ability to fathom a road map of progression. Take that child blind but not deaf, having been isolated from the wilds of the jungle its entire life, into the jungle to hear the sounds of the wilds. Will it not hear monsters that it can not see? Of course it will. Until it is cajoled into believing what it hears are simply the normal sounds of the natural world around and assured there nothing threatening about. How naive the child is.

"There is no other place that society could be than where it is right now, given the progression of technology ."

True, given the course it has taken. The question is, is this the result of a natural course or an unnatural course for your society. You see, while you praise such glory in the miraculous achievements in your 'progression of technology', you neglect the your histories miraculous achievements accomplished without your present state of 'progression of technology'.
Still the mysteries abound.

"It isn't a conspiracy."

Why isn't it? Or could it have been done without conspiring?

"If you disagree, then tell me where and we can discuss it."

I do, I am making clear. You have your eyes viewing the world about and I have mine eyes to view the world about. So unless your intention is to alter my perception, discussing it serves no real purpose.

"I have laid out many different points here that you can state your objection to, if you are objected."

I have no objections. I engaged out of misunderstanding is all. I accept that. I felt you were looking for an answer, I chose to save you the time of reading through the histories and point you rather toward where it is all heading and from where.

"I think that world government and population control are a good place to start, since the factors involved are so blatantly obvious."

Factors?

"Again, I am not saying that the government and various other institutions of power are not using conspiracies to get things done, merely saying that all they are doing is what is necessary to sustain and progress the present system we all exist within."

If that is how you feel, then you will not be in disharmony with the road map ahead of you. Those who feel to the contrary will be in disharmony. Who is more right you or them? Who is to dictate? Delegate? A majority?

"The only thing you can argue with is their means of doing so, viz "we need less war and more propaganda".

Where we to argue or discuss? I choose more war less propaganda. For the record.

"Arguing over the necessity of the changes makes zero sense."

Change is inevitable. How change occurs is sometimes determined by necessity and sometimes not. Arguing with another over necessity makes zero sense. It is the individual that decides what is right for their self. I am sure it is why some monkeys live in a metaphorical jungle and others live in real jungle.

You see the only true necessity in a monkeys life is, in order;

1] Breath air

2] Ingest water / discharge excess

3] Ingest nourishment / discharge excess

4] Propagate / obsolete. Species is abundant
4.a] foster your young

5] Shelter self if necessary


But again I might be misunderstanding.

Originally posted by lpowell0627
I, for one, have never bought into the whole mass depopulation theory crap. To me it's pretty simple:

The elite are elite because of their power. Power obtained and maintained through financial means. Money that that made off of average citizens. No money, less power. Less people, less money.

No people - no money- no power.

Doesn't add up to me.

Not to mention that any kind of chemical attack or physical detonation would also put at risk all of their own family members, but more importantly -- their puppets. Can't control the strings if the puppet gets cut loose.

And to argue that they will all be shipped to "safety" before the depopulation "event" is even sillier IMO.

Money is becoming less and less relevant. The whole paradigm is collapsing completely in the face of the technological system. Most people in the world do not produce more than they consume, so they are most certainly without benefit to any alleged rulers of the system, and a drain on the system itself.

I am not arguing that there is no plan for depopulation - that is a documented fact that no one can really argue with. What I am saying is that it is not a secret, and it isn't "evil". Obviously there are too many people, and they are continuing to multiply exponentially. This is plainly totally unsustainable, so something is going to need to be done about it. Either you have to sterilize people, implement birth laws such as China has, with forced sterilization, or you are going to have masses of starving people and food riots all over the world in the coming decades.

This alleged "secret evil elite" is simply doing what is necessary to guide the planet into the inevitable future. That isn't to say that they don't get off on it in a sadistic way. That may or may not be the case - the evidence of the Satanic cults, such as Bohemian Grove are proof enough that some of them do - but whether or not they are enjoying the idea of culling the population does not change the fact of the matter, which is that the population must be culled in order to avoid a total breakdown of the entire system. It might in fact be considered that these people develop the Satanic cults because of the position they have, not the other way around. But the question is academic, as the answer would have no effect on the hard reality of the situation.