The World Is Waiting On You To Liberate Yourself From Ego!

Originally posted by Sahabi

Originally posted by Baron01
The world is waiting for me to liberate myself from myself?

Yes.

War, genocide, violence, starvation, oppression, enslavement, habitat destruction, animal extinction, air/water/soil pollution.....

Self contributing to the suffering of Self.

If we have the capacity for love, compassion, sharing, helping, forgiveness, and cooperation.... why not choose these over war, violence, greed, and apathy?

1. You don't know me in the first place.
2. Liberating yourself from your ego is not possible.
3. But you can ceate the illusion of liberating yourself from your ego and then eventually realize you did not liberate yourself from your ego.

reply to post by jiggerj

It is in our nature to be selfish, to view ourselves, our families, and our friends as more important than anything else. This is not what we do, it's what we ARE.

We are war...
We are greed...
We are ambitious...

We are animals, no more, no less

You are in the forest hunting alone. You manage to bring down a wild hog. You clean the carcass and drape the large animal over your shoulders as you begin your trek out of the forest. Your family needs this meat, they are hungry.

As you walk you hear an infant baby crying. You make your way towards the sound and discover an abandoned baby, left to the elements. There is a note that simply reads, "Please forgive me. I can't take care of you. Goodbye."



What is the very first emotion caused by such a situation? Before logic or reasoning kicks in. Before the inner voice of rationalization.

Within me, the very first and primary emotions are empathy, caring, and altruism. The feeling to help.

The secondary thoughts and emotions begin to think, consider, and rationalize between helping this baby and bringing the food home to my hungry family.

With any choice there is sacrifice. So I choose to cut pieces out of the boar that will fit into my backpack, and I leave the rest of the animal behind in order to carry the baby to safety.

Even our primate cousins illustrate altruism when presented with a crying infant.

If we ARE war, greed, ambition, and selfish, then surely we would happily wage war on this baby because it is an easy target.

It was an act of selflessness to even hunt for the family in the first place.

We are war and violence, but we are also love and compassion.

War and violence for food and survival... ok.
War and violence for ideological, political, religious, etc., agendas is the very attachment to ego that I am discussing.

To the op what does it mean when your ego is flat, as described by some one else as flat. You are gonna do something big but you dont because your ego is flat. Does that mean your ego ,sense of self,is beaten into submission.A very accurate tarot reader who did a reading for me and everything they said came true from, birth ,death, operations, sexual life, money, children, ect,ect. They told me at the end i would do something big but that my ego would be so FLAT that i might not do it. What does it mean to say your ego is flat? cheers

reply to post by Baron01


I do not understand the relevance of your first point.


• Ego = All points of separation and fragmentation (mental, emotional, personal identity, physical separation between one thing from another, etc.)

• Liberate = Free from strong attachment.


If we can not free ourselves from the attachment to superficial separations, then it is beneficial for America to polarize into hostile oppositional ideologies... Republicans hate Democrats and vice-versa.

Should we figure out all of our personal views, beliefs, and ideas... and oppose all who do not agree?

Should we separate into groups of our own skin color or national identity and remain isolated from different physical features of mankind?

Mankind has been doing this for far too long.

If we truly realize the oneness or fully integrated and interconnected nature of outer and inner existence... then this is liberation! We do not attach to different points of separation because it's all the same thing anyways. We know it's all the same, merely fragments of the same thing. So we live life with more compassion because it is foolish for Self to cause suffering to Self.


Mankind has become masters of separation, division, and fragmentation. We dwell on these separations. The change comes when everyone finally realizes deep within that all is one.

reply to post by my1percent


Hello my1percent.

I made this thread to redefine Ego.

The standard definition of ego is the concept of self, I, and personal identity.

Upon inquiring about this concept of ego, I realized ego is simply another form of separation and fragmentation. Ego, as in personal identity, separates you from me. Ego, as in psychology, fragments the mind into parts. So I deduce that Ego is merely another form of separation and fragmentation.

Why did I do this? Because to say ego is this kind of separation and such-and-such is a different kind of separation seems redundant to me. Separation is separation regardless the name or concept behind it.




In saying "flat ego," the fortune teller was probably referring to his/her perception of you as being plain, average, dull, boring, not unique, blend in with the crowd, etc. That's what the term "flat ego" sounds like to me, but I don't know the tarot reader's intentions.

Because when society says someone has a big ego, we are saying a person is flamboyant, confident, cocky, egotistical, arrogant, prideful, etc.

But this thread is not addressing the Buddhist, Greek, or Fruedian Psycological standard of Ego, because I see it as outdated and superficial, with much more depth to discover the core fundamentals of the concept.

reply to post by my1percent


We should not beat Ego into submission... whether it be personal identity, mental/emotional fragmentation, or physical separation.

To attempt to destroy the human identity is dangerous, as it leaves one detached from reality.

All is One, and Ego (separation/fragmentation) separates One into parts, in order for life to experience things differently from different perspectives and relativity.

• Embrace the separation with the consideration of One.
•Embrace the Oneness with consideration of the separation.
* -- This is Liberation

The tree is an individual tree, but it is also the forest.

Peace.

reply to post by Sahabi


Thanks for responding but i think i asked the wrong question or you missunderstood me i think ive lost my zing need to find it again cheers

reply to post by Sahabi


What a fantastic thread, I commend you! I love how you mention that we actually need our ego. Much like fear is a potentially dangerous feeling that can eradicate all other feelings, we would be nowhere without it. You also mention Adam and Eve, so I am inclined towards showing two pictures related to your topic;





Adam and Eve, the original humans partaking in the forbidden fruit of knowledge. This forbidden fruit of knowledge has been digested all over the world before the dark ones made it forbidden, for example by the Aztecs which called it teonanacatl, or Flesh of The Gods;








This forbidden fruit of knowledge preaches everything you mention and more; liberation of ego, breakdown of cultural values, oneness with everything, carpe diem and that you are the master of your own choices and reality. Now isn't it interesting that in the year of 2012, the year of the human awakening, this information is steadily surfacing among the truth seekers? The Mayans perceived their knowledge from the gods within this fruit, and they prophesied the return of their gods around this year. They have returned, and the choice between fear and love are upon us

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy


1. There are two poles of existence that I perceive: Oneness (interconnection) and Separation/Division/Fragmentation

Divide and Conquer

For too long now, our petty and superficial differences have been instigated and highlighted. I am different than you because of this and that. They are different than us because of this and that. This type of mentality has been propagated to the point of wide-spread apathy, suspicion, anger, hate, war, violence, neglect, selfishness, and greed. This causes polarization, separation, division, isolation, and compartmentalization amongst mankind and amongst our comings on goings with Earth and nature.





2. Application

If Oneness and Separation are opposites, we are once again drawn towards duality. To deal with dualism with wisdom, we seek to understand the poles and we seek the balance between.

We know we are One by interconnection, we know we are Separation by self-evident observation/experience.

So what is Liberation in this regard? It is to accept One and Fragmentation. We are not "liberating" one fragment from another, because I said "Liberation" is to be free from the attachment to superficialities.

Liberation is to be Individual with the consideration of One, and to be One with consideration of Individual.





We are not denying anything. We are not killing anything. We are not controlling or bossing anything. We are not changing or juggling anything.

It is the simple realization that is the liberator.

When we are One and Individual at the same time, this is freedom, this is Liberation, this leads to less suffering in the world.




With this further articulation, if I am still wrong, then I am saturated in my own ignorance and can not understand or see past this understanding.

I am beating my head against the wall with meditations, conceptualizations, rationalizations, ponderings, and observations... but I keep being lead to this same understanding that I am articulating.

Oh the frustration!

Fear, desire and ego are one and the same. Without fear there is no desire. Without desire there is no fear. Without these there is no ego. All are merely mistakes in perception, the perception of a doer, a doer which is located somewhere inside of a body. Meditation can help you notice how all phenomena, even this sense of doership, is rising out of no where and falling back to no where, thus one can see there is no actual doer, but rather the temporary perception of a doer which arises due to karmic (conditioned) influences of ignorance.

Of course the ego is going to claim the ego is necessary. Of course fear is going to claim fear is necessary. A murderer always tries to justify his murdering. A thief always tries to justify his thieving. What a terribly narrow minded 'philosophy' this is. You cannot liberate yourself from ignorance because you are too busy trying to justify your ignorance. You are too afraid to let go of this ignorance and so you are trying to not only 'bring this ignorance along' with you through liberation, but you are actually trying use your ignorance to liberated yourself from ignorance.

How can you teach anyone about the self when you have not fully realized the Self? How can you teach anyone about liberation from ignorance when you are willfully bound to ignorance? Stop trying to teach people, and first go find out for yourself if life is possible without ego and fear.

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy


Thank you for your vote of 'No Confidence'

What ignorance do you speak of?

I am not a master or guru. Simply, I began this path 11 years ago. Through various religions, various philosophies, various sitting, laying, and walking meditations, I meditate on life through mindfulness of the present moment and conscious-awareness. Through inward and outward observation. Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Gnosticism, Hermeticism, Theosophy, and Luciferianism amongst some.

I meditate, observe, and inquire deeply. That "internal voice" has been silent for a very long time. I have conquered all of my fears. Many, many, MANY things you say, I understand and agree.

But you say I am bound by ignorance, fear, and not worthy to share my insights.

I am sorry I do not see things like you.

You do not see things like me, but I would not call your views narrow minded, ignorant, delusional, nor would I assume you fearful or state that you should keep your insights to yourself.

Once again, I don't know what else to say.

Have a nice weekend. Peace.

reply to post by Sahabi


I have read your posts and responded to the points you've made without story, without need for validation, without judgment or hostility. I never call you "delusional" or "ignorant" as you keep endlessly claiming. I say a viewpoint is "delusional" or "ignorant" because it is not based in reality, but only superficial appearance that falls away upon closer inspection. I guess no one can point to holes within your philosophies without attacking you, huh? Why do you identify yourself with these ideas!? It's like it is seriously making you sad and angry to have anyone challenge them.

And, you must not read my posts since you do not respond to any points I make, ever! LOL! Instead you continually give me your story, your defensiveness, your hostility, and claim "semantics" and mere 'differing viewpoints'. Set aside viewpoints, stories, judgments/defensiveness and hostility, let us look at this together, for once!

GEEEZ!!!

This thread is not just about redefining the word "ego" to intend it means fragmentation and separateness, which by the way is a good way of defining it, rather it is about liberating yourself from ego. This is the title of the thread for God sakes! LOL. Not only have you posited that the ego is real and tangible, but you have on numerous occasions stated it is necessary, that we need it. Not only that, but you have stated "I", which is the fragmentation/perceived separate entity/ego, can liberate myself from this "I"/fragmentation/perceived separate entity/ego; "I" can liberate myself from myself (as another poster accurately pointed out). Then, faced with these contradictions, you've claimed that this supposed "ego" and supposed "Oneness" are not separate and are in fact one and the same. So "ego" is "Oneness" and yet still there is the need to divide the two as two separate viewpoints, one from the individual point of view and one from the absolute.

by Sahabi:

We know we are One by interconnection, we know we are Separation by self-evident observation/experience. So what is Liberation in this regard? It is to accept One and Fragmentation. We are not "liberating" one fragment from another, because I said "Liberation" is to be free from the attachment to superficialities. Liberation is to be Individual with the consideration of One, and to be One with consideration of Individual.

I am left scratching my head... from the 'absolute' viewpoint there is NO EGO! There is NO FRAGMENTATION! There is NO SEPARATENESS! It is not a matter of unifying duality, it is non-dual; ie. not two. There is NO EGO! There is only the ABSOLUTE! That which perceives separation; that which sees two, is deluded, mistaken, narrow-minded, wrong... whatever you want to call it! Thus, there can be no liberation from ego because ego never existed, but as an illusion. Meditation shows there is only phenomena arising and falling in awareness, with no doer, no "I", no "ego"; it is all "Neti-Neti". Self-inquiry shows there is no doer, no "I", no "ego".

Sorry for the caps and exclamations, but this has been going on for months now, and all these PM's and posts claiming I am attacking you with mere "semantics" is getting tiresome. Tell me about Pyramid building. Tell me about machining. Tell me about Islam and of the massive amounts of other knowledge you hold. I know nothing of these things and I am all ears to learning about them. But you cannot tell me there is an ego to be liberated from, or that there is a 'Oneness' and an "ego" which are unified, when I can look right now and see no such things!

The feeling of a separate "I", which we call ego-consciousness, is directly related to the strength of ignorance, greed, and hatred. The deepest meaning of ignorance is the believing in, identifying with and clinging to the ego, which as we have seen, is nothing but an illusive mental phenomenon. But because of this strong clinging to ego-consciousness, attachment/desire, anger/hatred arise and repeatedly gain strength.

www.maithri.com...

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy


A car is a solid mechanical device. However, it is composed of smaller parts that contribute to it's overal unity. These smaller mechanical parts are composed of even smaller parts. The car is one, but also a composition of the overal car industry, and a composition of the overal inventions of mankind, and a composition of earth, and so on. You know, fractals going cosmic and micro, fully interconnected.

A tree is an individual tree and the forest.

My experience of the world is the same. I see this grand, unifying, formless, timeless, All. Beyond perception, thought, form, space, time. The more I explain it, the more I mess it up and corrupt it. It can not be properly explained, only known by each of us. It's the same thing but we all know it differently; Self, God, All, Spirit, etc.

With the same consideration, I see that in this physical human life, everything is unified and composed of smaller parts at the same time.

May Peace be upon us All.

Nice times Learned a lot. See ya.

Originally posted by Sahabi

War and violence for food and survival... ok.
War and violence for ideological, political, religious, etc., agendas is the very attachment to ego that I am discussing.

There is no 'okay' or 'not okay'. War over ideological, political, religious beliefs is just what we do. It's what have been doing, and will continue to do. Cannot say that humans are not this, when this is exactly what we do.

Have to tell you that in your scenario of the hunter with the starving family; if this is a matter of my family or friends quite possibly starving to death, if I couldn't carry the food and the baby...that baby gets left behind. I'll come back for it, but if ill-fortune fell upon the child before I got there, I'm not going to feel guilty over it. Very sad, but not guilty.

reply to post by Sahabi


Again:

by LifeIsEnergy:

And, you must not read my posts since you do not respond to any points I make, ever! LOL!

Peace out.

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy

Stop trying to teach people

Sorry I even tried. You have made it painfully clear that there is no room for differing views here. I must be crazy for seeing the world as I do, and sharing my on-going path. I'm sorry I do not see it as you do, and sorry I am not enlightened or understanding on your level.

No one is going to have to worry about me trying to teach here. I thought I had something to share, but according to you, I don't even know anything about such topics beyond superficial wordly knowledge such as Islam or machining.

Viewing ATS, more unpleasant feelings and thoughts arise in me than pleasant...so I won't even be lurking. I'm done. If this is more ammo to laugh at me and say I don't know Self, these topics, or am blinded by ego, then so be it.

My last goodbye. May you always have Peace.

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy


Peace be to you LifeIsEnergy.
Our last debate as well as the brief hiatus brought me much understanding. Thank you.


Unity and One is the underlying transcendental reality.

Relativity, Subjectivity, Ego (Separation), Time, Space, Motion, and Duality are mechanisms that perpetuate difference of perception, experience, awareness, and being amongst the unity of one.

Liberation of these mechanisms means to understand them, and to not be enslaved by them through ignorance. These mechanism are there and they do serve a purpose. But we must not be blind and unkgnowing of them. Understanding is Liberation.

Peace.

No one cares whether or not you lose your ego. they only care about control. If you lose your self preservation and side that wants to stand for something right. you are more controllable and easily influenced by everyone around you.

You lose who you are and ultimately lose everything you ever had and ever gonna have. The only thing you take with you into the after life is you. If you lose who you are your better off being labled as dark matter.

Their is a lot of dark matter out there. If we want to call the blackness of space dark matter. Meaning intelligence is not abundant.

If we apply above so below philosophies. In this instance we can conceive that if they want to take your ego. they want to control you. So if they take it away from you. Take away the stuff they want to control you for. That way no one wins.

Sure they made you lose your ego but now your not worth controlling.

reply to post by Sahabi


I'm glad you reached out. Looking back over this thread, and some of our PM's to each other, I must apologize for entering into such a disagreement with you, and much more, for upsetting you. We shared a high level of mutual respect and admiration for each other it seems up until the end when we disagreed on a few points of view. Emotions got the best of us, and I hope we can put that behind us now.

Concerning this topic, I feel the term "Ego" is just a symbolic representation for qualities that we perceive to be negative, or divisive. In one sense, what you said in this thread is correct, the apparent fragmentation of things is perceived to be real, yet it is also perceived to be not real in that all of the 'parts' are seen to be interconnected in one process. I guess what I was trying to convey is that the 'part', or the individual, can never "liberate" or free itself from its 'part-hood' without extinguishing itself. In other words, through the understanding that the apparent fragmentation is in fact not fragmented, rather there is only a single process appearing to be fragmented, there is no longer a fragmentation, thus there is no longer an individual or fragment.

And so, the seeker of liberation is like a moth to a flame. The moth is attracted to the flame but it can never actually touch the flame without extinguishing itself. In the same way, the individual is attracted to the liberation from individualism, but cannot become liberated from it without extinguishing it. I, for one, am not sure I can extinguish it thoroughly, yet. Still too much fear of the unknown, and still too much attachment to the conventional concepts of being a human. I now just try my best to balance the two, with one foot on either side of the apparent line. Of course, that doesn't really work out all that well.

Peace brother.

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy


This thread was meant to redefine the concept of Ego by making 'Ego' synonymous with 'separation', because Ego is fundamentally at its root; separation. This conceptualization is neither to demonize nor to bring negative connotation to Ego-Separation. On the contrary, separation is meant to be understood and then appreciated.

There is an underlying oneness and unity to existence. This wonderful human life "is" because of the mechanisms of separation, relative-subjectivity of awareness, perception, thought, emotion, experience, time, space, place, and cause-effect. Without Ego-Separation, there would be no this and that or you and me. This is why Ego-Separation is to be appreciated.

Unity and Separation is amongst the greatest of the dualities. The most benefit and happiness comes from reconciling these dual poles. Be the single drop of water and be the entire ocean. Appreciate individuality and difference, and find compassion and love in the unity.



Liberation of ego-separation is not a goal or exercise. How can we deny the separateness and individuality of our own lives? How can we possibly liberate/escape from the very 'thing' that gives us difference of life and experience? To try is unbeneficial and foolish. Escape from separation is not what this thread is conceptualizing.

"Liberation" in this thread means to understand the unity and understand the separation, therefore "freeing" us of the superficial desire to envelope one's self in extreme apathy and selfishness. The kind of apathy and selfishness that comes when we strive in the state-of-mind of "separateness".

We should not be enslaved or in ignorance of ego-separation. Simply, understand it, appreciate it, and that in itself is liberation.

When we only know and only believe in a complete separation, that is when we see manifest extreme apathy and selfishness to the point of hate, greed, war, genocide, poverty, oppression, tyranny, suffering, animal cruelty, destruction of earth, etc.

When we simply understand unity and then understand separation, we can begin to move in the direction of beauty, happiness, and peace. This is what "liberation" means in the op.




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