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Questions for those who subscribe to judeochristian beliefs

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posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to post by DrJay1975
 


Alrighty...your first question's good for tonight.


QUESTION 1- How can you worship the God of the Bible considering the atrocities he committed? EX... One of his commandments is, "Thou shall not kill". Yet breaking any of those commandments invokes the death penalty.


I certainly won't deny that God did, and ordered done, many things that we would consider atrocious today. But, you have to remember, God wasn't dealing with us in the Old Testament. He was dealing with people and cultures from around 3500 years ago. The Old Covenant was a physical covenant, and its focus was physical - physical Temple, physical Laws, physical actions to achieve physical goals. For example, God commanded the Israelites to take the land of Canaan, and they did so through war (what other way was there?).

Also, take note of the fact that it was God who gave the Law. And, contrary to popular belief, the Law wasn't meant to establish right versus wrong, in the typical sense. Rather the Law was designed to set the Israelites apart from their neighbours. God wanted his people to be unique, not perfectly moralistic (not yet, anyway). If the point was to make a "good" people, then why bother with the clean and unclean foods? This was to set them apart from the others, who sacrificed those foods listed as unclean to their idols, it wasn't because it's morally wrong to eat certain foods.

Considering, then, that the Law was not moralistic, it should be reasonable that God could choose to command his people to break one or more of those laws in order to achieve his plan. Yet, he never did. But, to see that, you have to have a deeper understanding of theLaw in its original language. For example, "You shall not murder." The Hebrew for "murder" is 'ratsach'. In all OT contexts, this word refers either to reactionary killing out of anger or to some sort of premeditated, animalistic attack - not nearly as general as the English. Therefore, the punishment of death for certain violations of God's Law is not covered by this commandment. In fact, I wonder how many times anyone was ever actually murdered because they violated one of these Laws. Such harsh punishment would certainly be incentive enough for most people (that is, people who aren't masochistic, psychopathic, and/or otherwise unconcerned with their own fate).



But let's cover God himself. He got ticked off and put one family on a boat and killed every living thing on the earth. If he wasn't your God, wouldn't you consider that evil?


Depends on your definition of "earth." Is it Earth "earth" or is it land "earth"? Is it entire world "earth" or is it Mediterranean region "earth"?
Besides, the people he wiped off the face of the "earth" were sinful and disobedient. Noah built the ark, and those around him obviously had plenty of time to repent (120 years), but they didn't. Only Noah's family followed him into the ark (plus all those animals), and the rest perished for their disobedience. Ultimately, the choice was theirs, just as it is for all of us.



There are numerous passages that show God killing tens of thousands of men himself not to count the people he had slaughtered on his behalf by people or angels.


You're still thinking like someone from the year 2012. You can't do that with the Old Testament. This was a different culture. God showed himself to them in whatever ways would get his point across. You'll notice, he doesn't do any of these things anymore. Plus, some of the most graphic passages in the OT are more symbolic than anything. For instance, Leviticus 26:29. Certainly you can see the hyperbole in this description of God's punishment for continual disobedience.



He also makes it clear that women are inferior and substandard. I think everyone knows the bible is sexist.


That is superficially true, but people conveniently forget the reason why women were considered to be inferior:

1 Timothy 2:13-15 - "... Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner."

Of course, this is easy to forget if we reject the Creation account, but, if we do that, then we reject the Biblical God altogether, and there's nothing left to discuss.
Woman was deceived. Woman sinned first. Woman caused man to sin. Woman became subservient to man. I know it's not what progressives and feminists like to hear, but, according to Scripture, it is what happened. And, you'll notice, this didn't make man entirely superior; rather, man became sinful as well, and both man and woman need the sacrifice of Christ equally to atone for their sin.



How and why would you worship someone like that?


It's not just "someone"...it's the Almighty God and sovereign Creator who sent his son to die for us. The Father has proven his love. That's enough for us.
edit on 8-2-2012 by CLPrime because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by DrJay1975
 



QUESTION 1- How can you worship the God of the Bible considering the atrocities he committed?


God didn't commit those attrocities... man did.


QUESTION 2- How can you worship Jesus? Jesus fully supports the old testament and it's laws


Incorrect...

He had two commandments, which were from God. All of which apply to the original commandments...

Though i don't worship Jesus... only his Father


QUESTION3-Do you think you will go to Heaven? Luke 14:26 You can't be his disciple unless you hate your friends, family and life itself. Love God and your neighbor. Luke 18:18-22 Follow the commandments and "sell everything you have and give it to the poor". John 6:53-58 You have to eat his "real flesh and real blood". Be like a child. You have to be born again of water and spirit. Oh your adherence to the LAW must exceed that of the Pharisees. There are about a dozen other things Jesus says you must do to enter Heaven. And some of them are contradictory, meaning he lied. But if you are reading this you aren't making it to Heaven because you haven't given it all to the poor yet


Everyone goes to "heaven" or the afterlife... though im sure not everyone is going to be happy once they get there




posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 08:05 PM
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reply to post by DrJay1975
 


Hi there. I am an avid fan of both the old & the new testament. I liked you post, so i hope this helps. I love the old adage 'Evil happens when good men stand by & do nothing'. God may not be a man, but he is a person in that he has personality. Would he be evil to let evil hurt his people? To attribute evil to God's motives when he is punishing for disobedience is evil based on mans standards. God doesn't use mans standards when he is making those decisions. He is using his own. The way God presents it is that the obedient deserve their peace, so it is righteous for God to give it to them& take wicked influences away from them. God never has, & never can do what is bad, so you may not know that God is good, & his actions must also be good. Jesus defends Gods right to judge & rule over us. He has directed his people on occasion to effect punishment on his behalf (firstly to the Israelites, then after they lost God's favor by killing his son, the true christian congregation, who were the new group he made a covenant with). If you mother-n-law has become hostile since she joined the church, you may point out that God actually frowns upon intolerance. It is unchristian, so she should really look again at what they teach there. It is not in harmony with Christ's teachings. If you know God & his Son, it makes you happier, not angrier at other people's different choices. It should help her to understand how people are mislead by priests & such. God says 'let anger alone'. Your m-i-l would know that if the doctrines she is being taught are truthful. There is one God, 1 faith, 1 baptism. To be born again involves changing your personality to fit God's righteous standard. That is what it is to be 'born of Spirit'. It is 'the way, & the truth & the light' The way is peaceful. You can't BE born of spirit' if you believe things that are not in the Bible... Like the Trinity. It cannot be found, because it just is not there. People would understand the concept of 1 God if they weren't lied to about him being 3 beings in 1. That's why churches teach it. It puts God beyond our understanding. The Holy spirit is God's motive, His Son is Jesus. Jesus cannot be his own Father... & Hell is another lie. People wouldn't pay the church to keep them out of hell (also, not the punishment for humans, just a word for the state of being dead) if they weren't told they would go to hell, or some other terrifying prospect. M-i-l should follow Jesus, & him alone in learning who God is, because as his son, & firstborn of all creation, he would know, right? He is the only priest given by God, & the only one we should all listen to. There is no other.God is not cruel, he always warned disobedient people before he punished them . He would have been a liar if he didn't do as he said he would.. & He has never lied. When people don't listen, it doesn't make God bad to do as he said he would... He loves us all. He sent Jesus to tell us his name, but people still call him God because his name was removed some 6000+ times from the original scriptures when they were translated. 'In the name of' must be very important to God for him to go to that trouble... You can't be friends with strangers whose name you don't know? They would always be strangers...If God makes you mean, it is not a good God you are learning from. ATB with the mother in law...



posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 10:05 PM
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One thing I would like to clarify about the Fig tree.
Jesus destroyed it because it didnt produce fruit. This is a clear indicator that if you are not doing the will of Jesus you will be destroyed.
Again its a Fig Tree, a tree. The symbolism is directed at humanity... not producing the will of Christ.
Make no mistake, God in Jesus, Jesus in God are the same and they are NOT little fat garden ornaments that you burn incense to or offer bowls of fruit for.
Dont be fooled the Bible stands alone and is read by many who understand God is not someone to be placated by humanity.

Oh and lets not forget the Book of Revelations and the Total destruction that is planed for the Earth, like in the days of Noah.
Destruction is happening and will happen again. God ordained
edit on 8-2-2012 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 07:31 AM
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I have a question.

I understand that God is not evil, he punishes us for our sins. But, using this logic, how can it explain something like child molestation? The child did nothing deserving of God's punishment, yet there are children every day who are used and abused in horrific ways and it is allowed to continue. Allowing it to continue and not interfering is, I feel, a punishment from God for sins of people who came before that child. Free will supposedly prevents God from stepping in and saving these children, but where is the justice for the child?



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 08:47 AM
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Originally posted by aimlessly
I have a question.

I understand that God is not evil, he punishes us for our sins. But, using this logic, how can it explain something like child molestation? The child did nothing deserving of God's punishment, yet there are children every day who are used and abused in horrific ways and it is allowed to continue. Allowing it to continue and not interfering is, I feel, a punishment from God for sins of people who came before that child. Free will supposedly prevents God from stepping in and saving these children, but where is the justice for the child?



Justice will be served make no mistake. We are on earth for only a very short time.
Justice was not promised by God on earth, it will be delivered on the day of judgement. No where in the bible is there a promise for the here and now other than the promise of salvation by faith and and the Holy Spirit within.
Jesus talked about a future glory. The promise of heaven.
Many Christians look for a blessing on earth from God. The true blessing is to serve God.
A true Christian is to focus on service not on recieving.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 08:59 AM
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Ok...so the child gets justice in Heaven. In the meantime, they are being subjected to all kinds of horrific acts. How is that even remotely acceptable? Is God going to say sorry about that, but look at all that you have now. All better....

I don't mean to come across crass, I just have a hard time with reconciling innocence with punishment.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by aimlessly
 


Why should we expect God to do anything about child molestation here on earth? Child molestation is a form of evil. The more evil we get, the more we push God away. The more evil we tolerate, the more we push God away. The more we push God away, the more evil we get and the more evil we tolerate. It's our own fault. If molested children find strength through faith in God, and if they continue in that faith and find salvation through it, then their rest is eternal, in the presence of the Saviour.

Anyone who truly serves the Father will find that life isn't made any easier because of it. Persecution, derision, judgement, rejection, contempt - all of God's people suffer because of their faith. God doesn't involve himself in the world to prevent evil (not yet, anyway...eventually, he will destroy the world to overcome evil once and for all), for now he involves himself only to provide a path to victory over sin in eternity, which often means suffering here in an sinful, disobedient, intolerant world.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 03:59 PM
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original translations are just as bad, if not worse then the kjv masonic version.

john 3.16 in greek says, god loved the world, in this way.....

so he only loved his worshipors? well that would go along with the talmud as well...



[yvid]



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by violence=answer

john 3.16 in greek says, god loved the world, in this way.....


In the Greek, John 3:16 says, "Thus, for God loved the world, therefore the son, the only, he gave that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have life eternal."

That is, "Thus, because God loved the word, he therefore gave the one and only son, that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."

God gave his one and only Son to die for the sins of the world, so that those who believe in him would be saved. Without the Son's sacrifice, the world would perish. By the Son's sacrifice, the world has the gift of salvation - for whoever accepts it.
edit on 9-2-2012 by CLPrime because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 05:45 PM
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reply to post by CLPrime
 


so god is not love and does not love everybody.

thats what i was saying.

it only further proves how messed up the bible is, and how god is not love.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 05:53 PM
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reply to post by violence=answer
 


It says "God loved the world"...how is that not loving everybody?



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 06:05 PM
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.....

In the Greek, John 3:16 says, "Thus, for God loved the world, therefore the son, the only, he gave that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have life eternal."

That is, "Thus, because God loved the word, he therefore gave the one and only son, that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."





he loves only those who believe
he does not love evverybody.

he loves us but made hell?
o thats just for non-believers.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by violence=answer

he loves only those who believe
he does not love evverybody.

he loves us but made hell?
o thats just for non-believers.


He loves the whole world. He gave his Son to save the whole world. But, not everyone believes in the sacrifice he provided. It's not his choice to have some people reject his gift of salvation. God is loving, but he is also just...and a just God does not save people just because he loves them. A just God saves people because they have come to him through the necessary (and provided) means. If people don't accept it, what's he supposed to do?

Let's say Jack loves Jill. Jack works hard and provides for Jill, but Jill doesn't accept anything he does for her. In fact, Jill rejects Jack entirely. What's Jack supposed to do?
God loves the world, but the world has rejected God. What's God supposed to do with those who don't accept his provision?



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by CLPrime
 


did god not have the knowledge of who would accept and who wouldnt?
if you believe in god, then yes he did.
so he made people knowing they would go to heaven, and who would not.
so in that, if god knew that one was going to hell, no matter what choice that person made, thats where they are going to go.
god made satan.
god made hell.
and god is the one who keeps hell populated.


if god exists, there is no such thing as freewill.

jesus only saved who he was meant to save, clearly not everybody.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by violence=answer
reply to post by CLPrime
 


did god not have the knowledge of who would accept and who wouldnt?
if you believe in god, then yes he did.


No. There is no indication that God has any sort of knowledge of individuals prior to their existence. He knows what he plans, but he is subject to time just like us. He can't literally see the future.



so he made people knowing they would go to heaven, and who would not.
so in that, if god knew that one was going to hell, no matter what choice that person made, thats where they are going to go.


Even if God somehow knew who was going to hell and who wasn't, it doesn't mean they had no choice in the matter. People have free will, whether God foresees their decisions or not.



god made satan.


Indeed he did.



god made hell.


"Hell" is the grave, where the body rots. What you're thinking off, the lake of fire, doesn't exist yet, as its only function is the destruction of non-believers at the Final Judgement.



and god is the one who keeps hell populated.


Hell (in this context, meaning the "lake of fire") isn't kept populated, it exists in the future to facilitate the "second death," where sin is overcome.

Contrary to popular opinion, non-believers are not tortured in hell forever. Rather, they cease to exist. Just like physical death, but on a more complete, spiritual level. That would be why it's called the second death.
edit on 9-2-2012 by CLPrime because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 09:14 PM
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reply to post by DrJay1975
 


You are already tackling this from a skewed perspective. For all of your issues with your mother, you both have something in common. The Church of Christ is Sola Scriptura and you are a Sola Scriptura atheist (or however you define yourself). The scriptures, while considered an extremely important part of Holy Tradition, are not the entirety of Holy Tradition. Orthodox Christianity nor Judaism are Sola Scriptura.

It can be quite difficult for those of us who are taking a modern perspective and projecting our own culture onto a text- that was orally transmitted for a long time before it was even written down- to have a full understanding of not only what is being said through the lens of an ancient culture, but what the religion in question explains those things to mean.

You tell us that Christians aren’t allowed to say that the Old Testament doesn’t apply to our faith. I agree. However, your perception and my perception of how the Old Testament applies is very different. Considering I hold to the religion (and presumably, you don’t) then those of us who do hold to it get to define when and how such scriptures apply.

So, as to QUESTION 1- How can you worship the God of the Bible considering the atrocities He committed?

The question itself is flawed, because you presuppose that God is the author of evil when He is in actuality the author of our salvation. Yes, the Old Testament contains some terrible things- however- all is not as it seems. There are multiple meanings to what you’re reading. And, have you considered the mercy involved in sparing the wicked (who are not nearly as innocent as you suppose) from further separation from God? (I will return to this idea later.)

Christians believe that the Old Testament can only be understood in a New Testament way, in the light of the Church. The Old Testament contains the preparation for the coming of Christ, promises, prophecies, and types or antitypes of Christ. The events of the OT being the shadow and the events of the NT being the truth and fulfillment. A big example of this is Isaac being offered as a sacrifice (that was rejected) points directly to Christ's death on the Cross.

As an example, when you look at Moses' account of the fall into sin, it is an interesting parallel to the parable of the Prodigal Son. The son left and fell into grief and suffering. However, it also gives us hope that we can always return. The incarnation of Christ made this possible.

Here are just a few other examples:

Adam and Christ
Eve and the Mother of God
Earthly paradise and Heavenly paradise
Sin through Woman and Salvation through the Virgin
Eating the fruit bringing death and partaking of the Holy Gifts bringing life
The forbidden tree and the saving Cross
The serpent/deceiver and Gabriel preaching good tidings
Woman told she will bring forth children in sorrow and the women at the tomb are told to Rejoice
Salvation from the flood in the ark and salvation in the Church
The three strangers with Abraham and the Holy Trinity
Jacob's ladder and the Mother of God (the ladder of the Son of God's descent to earth)
The sale of Joseph and Christ's betrayal
Slavery in Egypt and the spiritual slavery of man
Crossing the Red Sea and Holy Baptism
The burning/unconsumed bush and the perpetual virginity of the Theotokos
The Sabbath and the day of Resurrection
Circumcision and Baptism
Manna and the Lord's Supper
The Law of Moses and the Law of the Gospel
Sinai and the Sermon on the Mount
The tabernacle and the NT Church
The Ark of the Covenant and the Theotokos
The serpent on the staff and Christ nailed to the Cross
Aaron's rod and our rebirth in Christ

A good source that addresses the above topic (The Old Testament in the New Testament Church by Protopresbyter Michael Pomazansky): fatheralexander.org...

A more specific example: Psalm 137:9 says, "Happy [shall he be], that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."

This is one of my favorite psalms that we sing during the Great Fast before Pascha (By the Waters of Babylon). I totally agree with it. Little ones refers to our sins being dashed when we repent and turn to Christ. Again, everything in the Old Testament is a type or an anti-type of Christ.

It is how the Church interprets this scripture and always has done. This particular psalm and its interpretation actually plays a pretty major part of the Great Fast, which stresses repentance. If you're interested in the Old Testament as interpreted by the Church, then you should look to the Early Church Fathers.


edit on 9-2-2012 by LeSigh because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by DrJay1975
 


In your QUESTION 2 you ask- How can you worship Jesus?

Easily. Christ’s suffering death on the cross and resurrection made it possible for us to now have a way through suffering and a way to reconcile ourselves to God (abolishing sin) through his human nature. Christ’s ultimate act of suffering love gives us His saving companionship and grace. Christ even descended into hades, which opens up quite a bit of speculation as to what sort of mercy the inhabitants there were granted. Only God knows. This very act means that the righteous dead (even those who weren’t Israelites) were given life. Death was defeated. From our point of view they were retroactively granted salvation, but as God is out of time and space, it is just that, our perception. (It is a pious opinion among Orthodox Christians that even had Adam and Eve not sinned and introduced death into the world, then Christ would still have come. The main reason being that without the physical incarnation, there is no way that we could know the unknowable God, commune with Him, or even attain theosis.)

So, we are dying from the moment of birth, which is the consequence of sin that we all inherit. (This in no way means that we inherit Adam’s sin, just the consequence of it.) The choice is ours to accept the love of God. Being separated from God through sin, the love of God is like a burning fire. God’s very presence is the torturous fire of hell to the unbeliever as it also the light of heaven to the believer. (This IS the Orthodox Christian view of heaven/hell- it is more of a state than a place.)

Regarding prayer, I fail to see how Christ is lying. If you want bread, should you be given a snake? Suffering is part of this life. We are not guaranteed an easy road, and frankly, if your prayer isn’t answered the way you wish it to be, it doesn’t mean that it wasn’t answered. Afflictions are sometimes in our lives to help us on the road to salvation. Many of the saints were physically disfigured- and others were saved from seeing their faith. Have you considered that you can’t see the forest for the trees? Even still, there are cases in the lives of the saints where people (even amputees) were healed.

Here are some resources regarding what prayer is and how to pray:

www.fatheralexander.org...
www.fatheralexander.org...
Regarding the Mystical Supper, yes, Christ was being literal. In that same scripture, He even lost followers over it.

God is love and His love is fire/light. Which state (heaven and hell- a misnomer) you experience, is entirely dependent on your disposition toward God and not His toward you. If you are not prepared you will experience hatred toward the holiness of God and His love. It will burn you.

Regarding Christ and the Caananite woman, Christ was making a point. Her faith still saved her daughter. Anyone who was to have faith was going to be part of Israel after His resurrection. And, that verse is also a direct reference to the Eucharist (there are other such references in the NT). The Holy things are for the holy. The body and blood of Christ is jealously guarded by the Church. During the liturgy there is a time when it calls for catechumens to depart and for the doors to be closed and guarded. It was this way among the earliest Christians. People died martyrs deaths for this belief. We are not to reveal the Mysteries of God to His enemies. (And many of the unnamed gentiles in the NT, we in Orthodox Christianity know as saints by name. Many became Christians and were later martyred for their faith. Photini- the woman at the well- is one such person.)



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 09:24 PM
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reply to post by DrJay1975
 

QUESTION 3- Do you think you will go to heaven?

That is why I am in Christ’s Holy Church (the ark of our salvation and the hospital for sinners). For those in the Church, we are working towards finishing the race together. Christ is the Great Physician, and via the corporate life of the Church, we have a path to salvation. We partake of the sacraments (yes- the literal body and blood of Christ) which is the medicine for what ails us. We literally have Christ in us. We are Baptized with water into Christ. We are Chrismated with Holy Chrism and sealed with the gift of the Holy Spirit.

We do not have to follow the entirety of the law of the Old Testament. Christ fulfilled the law. In Acts 15:28-29 we're still told to do the following, which is hardly 613 laws:

"For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well."

I've no idea whether or not my arguments are anything acceptable to you. Parse them and accept it or not. In a nutshell, it is all about the incarnation. Christianity hinges on the incarnation.

Not one person can impart faith to God to you. I wish you all the best. I'll leave you with a few quotes that seem pertinent to the topic at hand.

Before anything else one must believe in God, "that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him" (Hebrews 11:6). -St Seraphim of Sarov - Spiritual Instructions

"For behold, all our lofty doctrines, how destitute they are of reasonings, and dependent on faith alone. God is not anywhere, and is everywhere. What has less reason than this (What idea makes less logical sense)? He was not made, He did not make Himself, He never began to be. What reasoning will receive this if there is no faith?" -St. John the Chrysostom

Abraham passed through all the reasoning that is possible to human nature about the divine attributes, and after he had purified his mind of all such concepts, he took hold of a faith that was unmixed and pure of any concept, and he fashioned for himself this token of knowledge of God that is completely clear and free of error, namely the belief that God completely transcends any knowable symbol. And so, after this ecstasy which came upon him as a result of these lofty visions, Abraham returned one more to his human frailty: `I am,' he admits (Gen. 18:27), `dust and ashes,' mute, inert, incapable of explaining rationally the Godhead that my mind has seen. -St. Gregory of Nyssa, From Glory to Glory

But some one will say, If the Divine substance is incomprehensible, why then do you discourse on these things? So then, because I cannot drink up all the river, an I not even to take in moderation what is expedient for me? Because with eyes so constituted as mine I cannot take in all the sun, am I not even to look upon him enough to satisfy my wants? Or again, because I have entered into a great garden, and cannot eat all the supply of fruits, would you have me go away altogether hungry? I praise and glorify Him Who made us; for it is a divine command which says, 'Let every breath praise the Lord' (Ps. 150:6). I am attempting now to glorify the Lord, but not to describe Him, knowing nevertheless that I shall fall short of glorifying Him worthily, yet deeming it a work of piety even to attempt it at all. -St. Cyril of Jerusalem (Catechetical Lectures: Lecture 6 no. 5)

"God is comprehensible in our contemplation of His attributes [or divine energies], but God is incomprehensible in our contemplation of His divine essence." -St. Maximus the Confessor(Cent. On Charity, IV, 7, trans. Pegon, Sources Chretiennes 9, p.153)

Belief is a matter of dying for Christ and His commandments. It is believing that such a death is life-giving. It is to count poverty as riches, and to consider the lowest humiliation as true honor and nobility. Faith is believing that when one has nothing, one has everything. More than this, it is to possess the incomprehensible riches of the knowledge of Christ and to look upon all visible things as but clay and smoke.- St. Symeon the New Theologian, The Practical and Theological Chapters

The problem of our life is union with God, and sin completely prevents this; therefore flee from sin as from a terrible enemy, as from the destroyer of the soul, because to be without God is death and not life. Let us therefore understand our destination; let us always remember that our common Master calls us to union with Himself. -St. John of Kronstadt (My Life in Christ, Part 1; Holy Trinity Monastery pg. 20)

If you wish to save your soul and win eternal life, arise from your lethargy, make the sign of the Cross and say: In the name of the Father, and of the Sonand of the Holy Ghost. Amen. Faith comes not through pondering but through action. Not words and speculation but experience teaches us what God is. To let in fresh air we have to open a window; to get tanned we must go out into the sunshine. Achieving faith is no different; we never reach a goal by just sitting in comfort and waiting, say the Holy Fathers. Let the Prodigal Son be our example. He "arose and came" (Luke 15:20). -Tito Colliander The Way of the Ascetics.



posted on Feb, 10 2012 @ 05:44 AM
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Old Testament: This set of books is to be the Christians school master. The Bible was inspired by God but not every passage is 100% literal and to be taken as such. If you take the overall message to the chapters or books, then you get an understanding of what the book is trying to say.

Jesus Worship: My Christian church teaches that Jesus is the divine Son of God but he Is Not God and is not to be worshiped. Jesus even said don't look to him, look to the Father that works through Him. Jesus job was to bring people to God, He was just an instrument used of God and also Gods divine Son at the same time. The concept of the trinity is not biblical as most people think of it, 3 deities all wrapped up into one thus making Jesus also God.

Going to Heaven: "They that repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus shall be saved, those that do not repent and be saved shall be damned". If you do these things and continue in the Faith then the bible says you can be assured a place in heaven. The bible also makes provision for those who are once saved to lose their salvation by disobedience. "Once they have tasted of the heavenly gift and fallen away it is impossible to renew them again to repentance." The trick is in being saved and living by the leading of the holy Ghost ( who's job it is to lead you into all truth) and not falling away again.. this it is said in the Bible is a very narrow path and few there are that make it. But, we choose to believe these things on faith -n faith and seeing the words of jesus work on ones life is what it's all about to bring the human to a better state than the one he was born into.

I was raised Southern Baptist and this church that teaches these things is an Apostolic Christian Church that was born out of a baptist congregation seeking truth from The Holy Spirit when they noticed things were in the bible that baptists were not being taught.

Someone said you wont get a straight answer from anyone here.. Ha.. here's your straight answer. I hope no one lost a bet.




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