Catholic Church Cuts the Knees Out From Under Obama? Lots of Votes Being Lost?

Weeeellllll.......looks like the Obamacare controversy has reared its ugly head again.

Like we aren't going to hear lots and lots about Obamacare during an election year.

If it's not whether Sharia Law should be recognized in American courts, it's going to be something else.

"Mr Obama has been accused of backtracking on an assurance that he made in a 2009 speech at the University of Notre Dame, a leading Catholic university in Indiana."

Hey, people have been listening and taking notes on the promises Obama has made....and broken.

Maybe looks as though the Catholic Church, and Catholics, will not be endorsing Obama in 2012?

But, hey, this is only ONE OF MANY issues Americans have with Obamacare......Something like 159 very high up Bishops have signed a strongly worded letter to Mr. Obama, care of the White House.




Roman Catholic leaders criticise Barack Obama over healthcare

Roman Catholic leaders have furiously criticised President Barack Obama for approving new regulations that compel religious organisations to include morning-after pills and other contraceptives in employee health insurance coverage.
www.telegraph.co.uk...

Obama forgets...the Catholic vote got J.F.K. into the white house....

The Catholic vote can get Obama out of the white house.

I think the majority of Catholics in the US use contraception. Most Catholics in the US don't work for Catholic Organization and receive the health care coverage that Obama is requiring employees who work in Catholic businesses, like bookstores, hospitals and schools.

Think most Catholics will vote on the issues of unemployment, economy, military issues and not so much on religious ethics arguments.

On the other hand, the GOP has only produced candidates that promise to try to outlaw contraception altogether. If you were Catholic, what would you do? Ban contraception or require all health insurance ro cover it?

reply to post by windword

Interesting post.

You may very well be right about the number of Catholics who use contraception. But I don't understand this:

Most Catholics in the US don't work for Catholic Organization and receive the health care coverage that Obama is requiring employees who work in Catholic businesses, like bookstores, hospitals and schools.

Every health insurance plan will require free contraception, Catholic or not.

Think most Catholics will vote on the issues of unemployment, economy, military issues and not so much on religious ethics arguments.

You may be right, but which of those issues do you see as being in Obama's favor?

On the other hand, the GOP has only produced candidates that promise to try to outlaw contraception altogether. If you were Catholic, what would you do? Ban contraception or require all health insurance ro cover it?

That's a false choice. I'd do neither.

By the way, Catholics went for Obama 54-45 back in 2008. What do you think it will be this year?

reply to post by charles1952


I just don't think contraception issues are going to bring people to the polls, one way or the other. I think people are going to vote on what they perceive to be successes or failures, how these things have effected their lives, and whoever they think the better candidate is.

Honestly, I think most Obama supporters were hoping for a single payer plan. I hope the law is overturned and single payer plan is implemented.

This Catholic Church contraception thing is just a lot of noise, imo, and won't really change anything, election wise.

reply to post by windword

Dear windword,

Not much I can question there. You've got some solid arguments. Thanks for offering them.

What happens if this issue isn't presented as "This Catholic Church contraception thing," but as government control over religion. Would that attract a larger criticism of Obama? If this year, Catholics split 50-50 Obama will lose a percentage point off his national total. He can't afford to lose too many.

Do you think there is a chance for single payer? Obama wanted it, but couldn't get it. Do you think he's more likely to get it now? What would it take? An Obama re-election and huge majorities in the House and Senate? Regardless of what I might want, I don't see that happening.

With respect,
Charles1952

Honestly, I don't think this issue is going to have much impact at the polls. It's a shame ... because it really should. Not because of birth control pills or whatever ... but because it is a prime example of how big government is disregarding the Constitution.

There's Separation of Church and State.

There's Separation of State and Church going voter.

It's a world of difference.

Obama has been the great divider and the magnificent deficit spender.

Those who are concerned about the economy will likely not vote for Obama.

Those church goers who are on the fence will likely fall into the side of voting for the other guy.

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by windword

 

Dear windword,

Not much I can question there. You've got some solid arguments. Thanks for offering them.

What happens if this issue isn't presented as "This Catholic Church contraception thing," but as government control over religion. Would that attract a larger criticism of Obama? If this year, Catholics split 50-50 Obama will lose a percentage point off his national total. He can't afford to lose too many.

Well, I think that's what the GOP is trying to do. They have paraded religious outrage against this president since the beginning. He's a religious liberal and they're trying to label him anti-Christian, Jew, pro-Muslim,etc.

But the GOP only offers religious nutters who will go to extremes to enact their moral codes to law, anti-abortion, contraception, creationism in school, no same sex equality.....

I think the Catholic Church is loosing devout followers by the droves. Most Catholics are more liberal in accepting the use of contraception, homosexuality and evolution.

The Health Care Law doesn't force people to TAKE contraception, it just makes it available.

Do you think there is a chance for single payer? Obama wanted it, but couldn't get it. Do you think he's more likely to get it now? What would it take? An Obama re-election and huge majorities in the House and Senate? Regardless of what I might want, I don't see that happening.

With respect,
Charles1952

Nope. Alas, I have to agree. "What would it take?" An overthrow of the house and senate of a pro single payer plan. Barring that, I don't see it either.

The Catgholics that are against this are the same ones that are already against Obama. It matters zippo to the election. In fact, I think the churches loud mouthed stance on this will just end up alienating many more parishoners and will shrink the rank of Catholics even further.

Devout Hispanic Catholics, do not believe in contraceptives at all. Obama is alienating twofold on his voting base with this demographic.

Des

Originally posted by tonycliffs


Hey, people have been listening and taking notes on the promises Obama has made....and broken.

Actually his promise record is pretty good.
The Obameter: Tracking Obama's Campaign Promises

The catholic church should learn to keep it's mouth shut about morality and stuff.


Catholic Church's sex abuse scandal goes global

The irony of religious freedom. I'm catholic BTW

So the catholic church wants to get its panties in a bunch because it will be required to offer or provide (either as employer or health care provider or both) contraception choices and by making them do so is wrong, unconstitutional in fact? But it isn't unconstitutional as it is the epitome of religious freedom; it requires them to provide to their employees or patients the choice and allows the individual to practice their religious freedom.

By allowing them an "out" it thusly would result in respecting an establishment of religion and allow that establishment to foist its believes up its patients or employees. Giving the catholic church the out is decidedly unconstitutional. The catholic church needs to remember that America isn't Poland, that they aren't the highest word in the land.

Before the catholic church starts saying it has a moral high ground, how about we talk about the child rapists, the fact that it did little to offset the Holocaust, that JPII didn't bust anyone out of the concentration camps, the tortures of how many millions, the rape of the New World?

Remember the Dark Ages, religious zealots ended scientific and critical thought for centuries.

So get off your high horses please, the catholic church isn't any paragon of virtue, and it should stick to matters where it has a strength... talking about fairy tales filled with virgin births, zombies, bushes that are on fire which can speak, and talking snakes that con women into eating fruit. You know, complete excrement.

Derek

Originally posted by Destinyone
Devout Hispanic Catholics, do not believe in contraceptives at all. Obama is alienating twofold on his voting base with this demographic.

Des

I think that "devout" Catholics in the US are a dying breed and few and far between. It would be interesting to take a poll to see how many Catholic Latino women, of child bearing age, use contraception.

They may start out against it, but after child birth and rearing a toddler, one may reconsider.

Catholics in the US do not vote as a group and they tend to be way to liberal compared to what Rome would like. Nobody is going to change a vote over an issue like this.

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by Destinyone
Devout Hispanic Catholics, do not believe in contraceptives at all. Obama is alienating twofold on his voting base with this demographic.

Des

I think that "devout" Catholics in the US are a dying breed and few and far between. It would be interesting to take a poll to see how many Catholic Latino women, of child bearing age, use contraception.

They may start out against it, but after child birth and rearing a toddler, one may reconsider.

I'm curious as to what atheists and agnostics think 'Devout' means/

How would an atheist or agnostic even begin to predicvt what is in the mind of a believer?

It just doesn't compute.

Originally posted by tonycliffs

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by Destinyone
Devout Hispanic Catholics, do not believe in contraceptives at all. Obama is alienating twofold on his voting base with this demographic.

Des

I think that "devout" Catholics in the US are a dying breed and few and far between. It would be interesting to take a poll to see how many Catholic Latino women, of child bearing age, use contraception.

They may start out against it, but after child birth and rearing a toddler, one may reconsider.

I'm curious as to what atheists and agnostics think 'Devout' means/

How would an atheist or agnostic even begin to predicvt what is in the mind of a believer?

It just doesn't compute.

Um, I'm not sure if you just called me an atheist/agnostic or not, but I'll answer you anyway.

My Aunt (rip) was a "devout" Catholic. She didn't married, until her mother died, at age 67. She was a virgin until death, because sex was for reproduction only. She taught at a Catholic School. She observed catechism, partook in communion and confession, rosary, the Stations of the Cross and followed all the Catholic edicts like no meat on Fridays, and such.

Since we were "born again" Christians, my mom was convinced she was hell bound for deifying the Virgin Mary and other saints.

Are you a devout Catholic? What is your definition of a "devout Catholic?"

Originally posted by windword
I think the majority of Catholics in the US use contraception. Most Catholics in the US don't work for Catholic Organization and receive the health care coverage that Obama is requiring employees who work in Catholic businesses, like bookstores, hospitals and schools.

Think most Catholics will vote on the issues of unemployment, economy, military issues and not so much on religious ethics arguments.

On the other hand, the GOP has only produced candidates that promise to try to outlaw contraception altogether. If you were Catholic, what would you do? Ban contraception or require all health insurance ro cover it?

My girlfriend is Catholic and would vote Republican as she always has but thinks all candidates for this GOP nomination aren't worth bothering with so may not vote this year (I'm British by the way and although I also have thought since November that the Republicans have been putting forward lamewads as candidates on purpose that will lose to Obama's re-election, I try not to discuss politics with her much because honestly, neither of us want Obama running the US but neither of us want any of the Republican candidates running it either).

She'd vote on unemployment and the economy issues (not sure about military issues, her brother served and her father is a retired Colonel I think so obviously she supports and thanks US troops for doing their duty and putting their lives on the line for freedom) and the contraception issue I have no clue her opinion on but I assumed all Catholics were against it.

reply to post by curious7


I don't want to pry, or come across as nosy, but does your girl friend use birth control? I mean, is she a "good girl?" Catholics would be against that too, if she's wasn't a "good girl."