Can someone please help me understand this Israel stuff?

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I'm still waiting.....

Can somebody explain those land titles ?

Was religion involved in the original land "purchases" ?

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reply to post by xuenchen


god gave it to them thousands of years ago. are you saying a peice of paper is more than gods will?

you an antisemite?, that is their religion. they beleive god gave them that land. ALL jews think this, who are you to disagree?

Originally posted by bronxbull
reply to post by xuenchen

 

god gave it to them thousands of years ago. are you saying a peice of paper is more than gods will?

you an antisemite?, that is their religion. they beleive god gave them that land. ALL jews think this, who are you to disagree?

well,

somebody MUST have land titles ?

with all the legal paperwork and all.

businessmen don't do much without legal advice.

Originally posted by bronxbull
reply to post by xuenchen

 

god gave it to them thousands of years ago. are you saying a peice of paper is more than gods will?

you an antisemite?, that is their religion. they beleive god gave them that land. ALL jews think this, who are you to disagree?

Logic and common sense.

So what you're saying is, I could state that God wills me to own YOUR property, and therefore I could pop round and claim everything you own as my own; the land, all the contents, property, etc.

Big deal if you have a piece of paper with silly scribbles and stamps on it. Is that ok? Should we arrange a date for my claims?

Perhaps land ownership there is by "occupancy" only.

Maybe that explains the constant war.

Here in the U.S. they could stake a claim and get a title after one year I think, but you have to develope the land to a certain specification I believe.

Taking and occupying land is nothing new especially for england , france, spain and the U.S.
Who ever has the biggest army and most weapons gets the land.
Paper work only validates who ever is in power at the time.

Each side claims they want peace, each side claims they want no war.

Both sides threaten war, both sides want land and power.

The thing about this fight, is you will find contradictions on both sides, but...

Only one side wants the other side extinct, only one side threatens genocide on a regular basis,
only one side seeks the ultimate bomb, only one side who seeks the bomb claims they will use
it the second they get it.

I would personally side with the group that is on the side of the U.S.A., if you are anti-USA
feel free to go on the side of the enemy, if you are anti-Israel feel free to side with the enemy.

If it were up to Israel, WW3 would never happen, the enemy of Israel would start WW3 today
if they had the bomb, one side bluffs, one side does not bluff, that's the difference.

Dropping a nuclear bomb is not good for business, it's not good, because you can't buy and sell,
trade, or use the enemy as a tool for warmongering anymore, if the nuclear bomb is dropped on
them there is no more enemy. The hatred Iran has for Israel goes beyond logic, goes beyond
common sense, goes beyond money, it is in the realm of hate-filled insanity, they don't care
about using the weapon as a bargaining chip, they want to use it to exterminate the Jews in
Israel off the planet, they've said this again and again. Iran and Hitler both wanted the same thing.

Jerusalem is the holy land of the Jews.
It is also the most holy of holy lands
for muslims, they have a few, but
the *most holy* is Jerusalem.

So they have been fighting thousands of years
back and forth over it basically.

The muslims do a lot of infighting
between each other. There are Sunni and Shiite
muslims. If Israel was not there they would be
killing each other over who gets it.

That is the basics.

Some people side with the jews, some
people side with the muslims.
Personal preference for some who are not
religious/spiritual.

The big difference
in the two is radical Islam.
The radical muslim countries (like Iran) are taught
from the koran and believe they are to either convert
or kill people who do not believe in there religion.
They also believe in living under Sharia law, and
that the whole world should live under it.

The muslims control every country
in the middle east. Israel is the only non-muslim
country in the region.


Letting middle eastern countries have nuclear
weapons is like giving a loaded gun to a 5 year old,
nothing good can come of it..


None of them should really have them, but
there is no sense in letting anymore cats
out of the bag.

Pakistan has nuclear weapons,
look how they are handled.
Pakistan Carries Nukes in Unmarked Delivery Vans
www.indiandefence.com...

Pakistan a muslim country, and Israel a jewish country
both have nukes in the area. So they are on a even
playing field really..

It is a bad idea, to nuke arm up the whole middle east
your just asking for fallout...

Nope, nope and nope.
The myth that a historical aggression has always been there between Muslims and Jews is totally incorrect.
When the Muslims left Spain, the Jews left with them. There has ALWAYS been Jewish communities in Palestine, and they were treated with the utmost respect relative to the way they were treated around the world (persecuted and tortured).

The Muslims and Jews fought against the Crusaders, and they shared Palestine as usual.
Then there was the inception of Zionism in the early 1900s (and probably an ambition for it before that by a little while), which led to European Jews immigrating to Palestine. This was fast-tracked by the rise of Hitler and Nazi Germany.

Basically, if you want to look over records and everything by law and common sense, which I strongly recommend, you'll find a few major points which are the McMahon-Hussein Correspondance in which the British and the rest of the Allies promised the Arabs the right of self-determination and independence if they rose against the Ottoman Empire that ruled over the Arab lands (including Palestine).

The Arabs agreed, hence the Great Arab Revolt which led to the fall of the Ottoman Empire. But the British and French backstabbed the Arabs with the 1916 Sykes-Picot Agreement which was revealed years later to the world, where they agreed to go back on their first agreement, and not allow the Arabs complete independence.

Then there was the Balfour Declaration of 1917 in which the British promised the Jews a homeland in Palestine; if and ONLY if they do not discriminate against the rights of the Arabs.

I know you might get bored of this, so here's a video to explain things in a nutshell:



You'll find out some of the Jews took up arms, and formed terrorist organisations in which they committed massacres against the Palestinian Arabs.
And even though I'm a staunch supporter of Palestine, I won't lie and tell you that the Arabs did not commit massacres as well.

Massacres in Palestine by both sides

Basically, after the horrible (words cannot describe it) massacre of millions of Jews in Europe by the Nazis, Europe and the US felt that they failed them (rightfully so), and wanted to make it up to them. Hence one of the reasons why they aggressively supported the formation of a Jewish state in Palestine.

And to everyone who keeps mentioning how the Arabs and Iran keep threatening Israel and how Israel is doing nothing, then you're all very wrong.
The Partition of Palestine by the UN was completely unfair to the Palestinian Arabs. They consisted of 2/3 of the population, and with ACTUAL documentation supporting their claims, the Palestinian Arabs owned a whopping 97% of the land right before the partition.

But the partition decided that the Jewish state should be given more than half of the land, (and some people claim; although I haven't found any proof of it, that they were given the most fertile land), and the Palestinian Arabs who pretty much owned the entire land, were given less than half of it.
So let's make this a bit relative.

A bunch of robbers walk into a bank, set up shop, and lock all the doors. Police forces surround the bank, but can't actually get in. The robbers decide they will only allow the hostages to live, if they were given more than half of the money in the bank, and the police agree to it. And ever since then, the customers of that bank get really angry and rightfully so, and attack the robbers to get what is rightfully theirs by law.

The bank is Palestine, the robbers are the Zionists, the police are the UN, and the customers are the Palestinians. And the robbery and occupation has been going on ever since, aggressively supported by the US (3 billion of foreign aid every year) and Europe.

I can't really explain everything in such a short post, if I could this issue would've been resolved by now. There is so much to it, it can take up weeks to get a firm understanding of what happened, what is happening, and the road to peace which everyone should be thinking of.

And to dismiss a few controversial claims that will surely follow if I do not mention it time and time again, here's a few important points.

Pro-Israel people will always mention how Palestinians were ordered to leave their country, to make way for a swift and clinical attack by neighbouring Arab countries' armies, which isn't true.

“The BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation) monitored all Middle Eastern broadcasts throughout 1948. The records, and companion ones by a United States monitoring unit, can be seen at the British Museum. There was not a single order or appeal, or suggestion about evacuation from Palestine, from any Arab radio station, inside or outside Palestine, in 1948. There is a repeated monitored record of Arab appeals, even flat orders, to the civilians of Palestine to stay put.” Erskine Childers, British researcher, quoted in Sami Hadawi, “Bitter Harvest.”

People will also claim that the Arabs attacked Israel, and lost, so it's their fault. You have to remember the bank situation, why wouldn't neighbouring Arab countries defend the rights of their Palestinian brothers; especially after the horrors of the massacres committed against the Palestinians.

But in fact, Israel was founded on an unlawful basis, and after the massacres, and the threats to wipe out the rest of the Palestinians if they do not leave, the Zionists deserved to be driven out of that land.

Here's an example from the 1967 War;

“The former Commander of the Air Force, General Ezer Weitzman, regarded as a hawk, stated that there was ‘no threat of destruction’ but that the attack on Egypt, Jordan and Syria was nevertheless justified so that Israel could ‘exist according the scale, spirit, and quality she now embodies.’...Menahem Begin had the following remarks to make: ‘In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.’“ Noam Chomsky, “The Fateful Triangle.”

“I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it.” Yitzhak Rabin, Israel’s Chief of Staff in 1967, in Le Monde, 2/28/68

And one last controversial claim that Israel in the 1948 War fought off the Arabs miraculously is untrue.

“The Arab League hastily called for its member countries to send regular army troops into Palestine. They were ordered to secure only the sections of Palestine given to the Arabs under the partition plan. But these regular armies were ill equipped and lacked any central command to coordinate their efforts...[Jordan’s King Abdullah] promised [the Israelis and the British] that his troops, the Arab Legion, the only real fighting force among the Arab armies, would avoid fighting with Jewish settlements...Yet Western historians record this as the moment when the young state of Israel fought off “the overwhelming hordes’ of five Arab countries. In reality, the Israeli offensive against the Palestinians intensified.” “Our Roots Are Still Alive,” by the Peoples Press Palestine Book Project.

And..

Strength
Israel: 29,677 initially rising to 115,000 by March 1949. This includes the entire military personnel count—both combat units and logistical units. Egypt: 10,000 initially, rising to 20,000
Iraq: 3,000 initially, rising to 15,000–18,000
Syria: 2,500–5,000
Transjordan: 8,000–12,000
Lebanon: 1,000[10]
Saudi Arabia: 800–1,200
Yemen: 300
Arab Liberation Army: 3,500–6,000
These numbers include only the combat units sent to the former British Mandate of Palestine, not the entire military strength.

Now let's just a grain of salt compared to what happening and what is happening now.
If you want to really dig deep in this, I would suggest two fantastic websites I've come across.

If Americans Knew and Palestine Remembered.

And just for the sake of concluding my two boring long-ass posts (sorry for that), my view on this as a human being, is that yes, there might be peace if Palestinians just completely leave the occupied territories and stop fighting for it, but that wouldn't be justice. Their land was taken from them, they were threatened, massacred and even driven out into the sea (just check the Palestine Remembered website). The remaining Palestinians are also living in one of the worse conditions ever, where Israel has formed a blockade (also attacked anyone who tried to deliver food and water for them - Flotilla Incident -- suggest you check it out), built apartheid walls, has laws that discriminate against marrying Palestinians, and has forced their way to a Jewish majority through illegal immigration into someone else's country, killing the inhabitants of that land, and kicking out most of the ones remaining either by force or by threats.

Religion and politics also mix in this issue, which is why it's been going on for so long as well.
In my opinion, even though as a Jordanian I consider myself as essentially the same as Palestinians, I believe that the Jews shouldn't be kicked out or murdered if any opposition ever has the strength to (which is fairly unlikely..).

I believe that history is repeating itself, that the people who were once tortured by the Nazis, are now doing the same to the Palestinians; which is seriously sad ethically and morally. It's also sad to see that apart from all our small differences, we are all human beings, and everyone deserves to live in peace and in the best conditions possible.

I wish Palestine would be freed in the end, but I know the only way (considering the current political climate) is to exterminate the Israelis. That's why I hope (never going to happen) that reason and common sense will somehow prevail in the end, and Israel finally admits to the ethnic cleansing and torture of Palestinians, and that the opposing forces (some of which I consider terrorist organisations) would also admit the mistakes and crimes they have committed as well.

Once you thoroughly learn about this issue, you'll realise that the human race (collectively, and not every individual) has failed more than once, and is repeating the same mistakes over and over again.

Sorry for the really long posts, and I hope I gave you a nudge in the right direction (yes a nudge, it's actually going to take you a while to learn all about it).

For some reason people of the Jewish faith (if they are Zionists) think they are special and deserve their own country only made up of them. That country is Israel.

Any other racial/ethic/religious group that would want this would be looked at as racist and bigots. See white,black,and Latino nationalists. They are all labeled as hate/extremist groups so why aren't Zionists?

heres the short and skinny of it all.
moses led the isrealites outta egypt,and basically butchered all who were in their way,to get to the 'promised land' in the name of god. when they got there they murdered all the philistines(palastinians) and they said 'we're home'!
bla bla bla bible history.then after ww2 isreal was declared a country(tht they stole from the palastinians) and basically gave the states a foot in the door in the middle east for their oil.
shortly after that,the states backed a puppet regime in iran,(the shaw)then got cozy with the arab royalty,then backed saddam in iraq. but these puppets got greedy and said we don't need usa. so they started hating isreal and their western ways with their heads stuck up the ass of the us. in 1967 there was a 10 day war(just 10 days?)
and isreal was still there! this was to show the middle east who was the boss - usa!
ever since,we in the west have been forced to believe that muslims are bad,and we need a war to keep our way of life,but really its all about oil. and now we have to be in control of certain tracks of land because of a huge natural
gas supply over there,and we need a big pipeline that spans over many countries. so war it is again!!!
hoe this helps!!!

Basically in the bible there were a people called the Israelites and THEIR god promised them some land, fast forward a few thousand years and you have a load of Englishmen including some of of Germanic descent who decide they will recreate Israel, now remember at the time many of the English aristocracy believed themselves to be descendants of the 12 tribes of Judah though this has since been proven false.

However they achieved Israel in 1947 anyway as you know but funnily enough the Israelis inhabiiting Palestine are not a semetic people whereas the Palestinisans actually are! The actual descendants of the Israelites of the bible live in countries like Iran and Libya and Somalia etc. The inhabitants of Israel have been imported from US, Russia, Germany etc.

Anyways
The US are pro Israel because they have been fooled by the rapture/bible bull#, ie if they dont stand beside Israel god will smite them.

Whereas most of the rest of the world see Israel for what it is and always has been, a terrorist state, run by terrorists (since its inception) and backed by the worst mass murderers humanity has ever known intent of enslaving humanity and having an Israel that rules the world from an old testament Israel which "stretches to to the banks of the Euphraties" That is essentially what Zionism is, ie a return to the biblical borders.

Awesome thread OP! I've been meaning to ask this for about 6 months but I didn't know how to word it.

Some great info so far!

reply to post by Sinny


Glad you liked it and found it to be informative. I know I did.

Thank's everyone!

Zionists are the ones who decided to ignore Moses words who said "you shall be scattered on earth"

They dreamed of their home called Zion where they can live as superiors.

They wanted to make Mosses look wrong about his words.

They are calling themselves followers of Moses but they simply ignore his words and are his enemies.

Just my 2 cents.

So here is a bunch of people kicking Arabs out of their houses because they say God gave them the land. And they have the nerve to call the muslims religious extremists? lol.

reply to post by Juston

1.I'm just trying to understand why so many people / countries are vehemently pro/anti Israel...
2.Is it mainly religion?
3.Is it over land?
4.Why is the United States so heavily involved?
5.What, exactly is Zionism or a Zionist?
6.Why is Israel allowed to have an undisclosed amount of nuclear weapons...heck...secretive nuclear program in general, but as far as I know, the US would freak out if anyone else did that?

1.I am just anti-illegal . I think Palestinians who were made refugee and are being expelled from their lands should decide about their future ( As democracy and freedom tells people to do it).

2.It is far from religion but Zionists always pretend to be Jews but they do anything but what Moses taught them to do. So , religion is a front and they do whatever they want.

3.That is one part , but the main problem is that Zionists take over the land and made a country which accepts no border.There are more problems than just land of Palestine.

4.Because the united states politicians are much helped by the money that Zionists provide for their campaigns. And because many people with big big money are Zionists who dictate their demands.

5.there are many stories said about them. But the most true is about their one world govt plan. First they should have made a Zionists state (Israel) , Second they should take over main vessels of energy to the world (Nile til Euphrates plan) , third they are going to take over the planet by force and by killing people by Nuclear bombs and make their One World govt. They are now about their Nile til Euphrates plan. Syria is the final step.

6.To kill people in Mass. The god-blessed scientist Einstein told them about the bomb that could kill people in mass. So , certain tools are necessary for certain workers.Nuclear bomb ===> Mass murdering people.