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Caterpiller Workers - Time to call in the Army

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posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by CranialSponge
Wow, OP... you're so ill-informed on this entire story it's not even funny.

Caterpillar is one of the wealthiest corporations worldwide with record net profits year after year.

The company is well known for how they buy up and/or merge with a smaller company, and once the documents are signed, they step in and demand massive pay cuts, slashes to benefits, and removal of pension plans to all of the employees. They've pulled this crap all across Europe and have put thousands upon thousands of people onto the street.

There's a reason why Caterpillar is in the top 200 of the wealthiest companies in the world.




Back story of what happened with this particular situation:

After the merger, a new employee collective agreement had to come back onto the bargaining table. The company demanded not only a 50% pay cut to all wages, they also demanded a huge slash to their health benefits plan, and a complete wipeout of their pension plan with absolutely no room allowed for negotiations, it was either "agree to our demands or we shut it down".

So we're talking about an employee going from $30/hour down to $15/hour, barely any medical coverage, and a total annihilation of their pension plan. Another words, they would be earning the same wage as an unskilled labourer working at Tim Horton's with no future of retirement pension, no nothing.

The union demanded that Caterpillar at least be willing to negotiate. The company said "screw you", and locked out the employees the next day.

Understand the difference between a Lockout and a Layoff:
A layoff allows the employees to collect EI. A lockout freezes the employee as "still employed by the company" and therefore cannot collect EI. The only pay they're able to receive then is paid to them by the union called "lockout pay" of around $100 - $150 per week.

After several months of these people being locked out, the company finally decided to officially shut it down and handed everyone their layoff papers. It's not until this point that the employees could finally apply for unemployment insurance.

I am no lover of unions myself, in fact I think unions should have gone by the wayside with the dinosaur years ago. However, this particular situation with Caterpillar was a dirty underhanded thing to do... to say the least.

This, my friend, IS a classic case of corporate greed to the 'enth' degree, and NOT one where the union was being ridiculously demanding (which is usually the case).

You've got this particular story completely backwards.
edit on 7-2-2012 by CranialSponge because: (no reason given)


But this is exactly what I said. After being way overpaid for many years at twice what they were worth, yet they were offered good jobs at a good rate of pay, $15 a hour, but they were too cocky, believing themselves to be entitled to be on the gravytrain for life.

And why they should be entitled to any welfare baffles me., although, had they actually wanted an income, they could have actually got jobs at somewhere else like McDonalds instead of trying to scrounge off the state.




posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by ballisticmousse
But this is exactly what I said. After being way overpaid for many years at twice what they were worth, yet they were offered good jobs at a good rate of pay, $15 a hour, but they were too cocky, believing themselves to be entitled to be on the gravytrain for life.

And why they should be entitled to any welfare baffles me., although, had they actually wanted an income, they could have actually got jobs at somewhere else like McDonalds instead of trying to scrounge off the state.



Are you kidding me ?!

Do you actually believe that $15 per hour is a "good" wage for someone who spent 5 years in an apprenticeship program earning their journeyman machinist/millwright papers ?!

We're not talking about unskilled labourers here man. Most of these people are ticketed, skilled workers.

Get your story straight.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 02:43 PM
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Do you not understand how the Employment Insurance program works in Canada ?!

Every employee gets deducted EI premiums from their paycheques. This pays into the employment insurance pool across Canada so that should you lose your job, you can then collect EI for a certain amount of time until you can find another job.

It's an INSURANCE program. You pay into the premiums and hope that you never have to collect back on it.

It's not "welfare".

Geezus.
[insert slap forehead here]



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by CranialSponge

Originally posted by ballisticmousse
But this is exactly what I said. After being way overpaid for many years at twice what they were worth, yet they were offered good jobs at a good rate of pay, $15 a hour, but they were too cocky, believing themselves to be entitled to be on the gravytrain for life.

And why they should be entitled to any welfare baffles me., although, had they actually wanted an income, they could have actually got jobs at somewhere else like McDonalds instead of trying to scrounge off the state.



Are you kidding me ?!

Do you actually believe that $15 per hour is a "good" wage for someone who spent 5 years in an apprenticeship program earning their journeyman machinist/millwright papers ?!

We're not talking about unskilled labourers here man. Most of these people are ticketed, skilled workers.

Get your story straight.


Well, of course $15 an hour is a GREAT wage, and certainly more than they are getting at the moment, ie nothing at all. (And why should they be getting anything at all when they can't be bothered to work?)



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by CranialSponge
Do you not understand how the Employment Insurance program works in Canada ?!

Every employee gets deducted EI premiums from their paycheques. This pays into the employment insurance pool across Canada so that should you lose your job, you can then collect EI for a certain amount of time until you can find another job.

It's an INSURANCE program. You pay into the premiums and hope that you never have to collect back on it.

It's not "welfare".

Geezus.
[insert slap forehead here]


OF COURSE EI is WELFARE. It's money scrounged off the state for sitting on your butt.

Whole system should be done away with. It's a real impediment to creating jobs and a needless ton weight on the taxpayer.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by ballisticmousse

Originally posted by CranialSponge
Do you not understand how the Employment Insurance program works in Canada ?!

Every employee gets deducted EI premiums from their paycheques. This pays into the employment insurance pool across Canada so that should you lose your job, you can then collect EI for a certain amount of time until you can find another job.

It's an INSURANCE program. You pay into the premiums and hope that you never have to collect back on it.

It's not "welfare".

Geezus.
[insert slap forehead here]


OF COURSE EI is WELFARE. It's money scrounged off the state for sitting on your butt.

Whole system should be done away with. It's a real impediment to creating jobs and a needless ton weight on the taxpayer.


Excuse me ?!

EI is paid for by every employee and every company across Canada. It's a mandatory paycheque deduction.

What the hell are you talking about "taxpayers" ?
Do you not understand what an "insurance" program is ?

You pay insurance premiums for house insurance, do you not ?

So if your house goes up in flames and you need to collect back on your insurance, should you not be able to ? Or is that what you consider "welfare" ?!



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by ballisticmousse
Well, of course $15 an hour is a GREAT wage, and certainly more than they are getting at the moment, ie nothing at all. (And why should they be getting anything at all when they can't be bothered to work?)


You actually believe that $15 per hour is a "great" wage for someone who spent 5 years of their life schooling to become a certified tradesman when anyone can go to McDonald's and get the same pay rate ?

Then why would anyone bother with secondary schooling ?!

Holy crap, wake up.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by CranialSponge

Excuse me ?!


Why? WHy should we excuse you? You should know your facts before you spout off, so no, I don't excuse you.


Originally posted by CranialSponge
EI is paid for by every employee and every company across Canada. It's a mandatory paycheque deduction.

What the hell are you talking about "taxpayers" ?


That's right, a "mandatory deduction" which is the dictionary definition of a TAX. It's all just a scam, an unwanted TAX that destroys jobs with whacking loads of needless paperwork and urgently needs to be dumped.


Originally posted by CranialSponge
Do you not understand what an "insurance" program is ?


Of course I do. It's just another form of gambling, paying someone to sit in an office and do NOTHING.


Originally posted by CranialSponge
You pay insurance premiums for house insurance, do you not ?


Of course I don't have home insurance of ANY sort. I'm not wasting my hard-earned cash on giving it to someone for nothing. What do you take me for? A born-yesterday mug?


Originally posted by CranialSponge
So if your house goes up in flames and you need to collect back on your insurance, should you not be able to ?


No-one "needs" insurance. It's a total scam. The only time one should have "insurance" is when some bunch of bum around finnaciers have managed to bribe enough politicians to get it passed into law. No one in their right mind would pay for NOTHING otherwise.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by ballisticmousse
Well, of course $15 an hour is a GREAT wage, and certainly more than they are getting at the moment, ie nothing at all. (And why should they be getting anything at all when they can't be bothered to work?)


When minimum wage is $10/hr you seriously cannot label $15/hr a GREAT wage. With heating, electric, property, fuel and food prices constantly on the rise, you would have a hell of a time raising a family on $15/hr.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by CranialSponge

Originally posted by ballisticmousse
Well, of course $15 an hour is a GREAT wage, and certainly more than they are getting at the moment, ie nothing at all. (And why should they be getting anything at all when they can't be bothered to work?)


You actually believe that $15 per hour is a "great" wage


Of course it's a good wage. Duh!



Originally posted by CranialSponge
for someone who spent 5 years of their life schooling to become a certified tradesman


What a joke! That "certified" really, REALLY ought to be done away with. It's just a restricvtion on trade that's destroying jobs. Anyone ought to be able to become a plumber or a carpenter.


Originally posted by CranialSponge
when anyone can go to McDonald's and get the same pay rate ?

And what's wrong with working at McDonalds? or are you just too much of a Canadian snob to consider doing that?


Originally posted by CranialSponge
Then why would anyone bother with secondary schooling ?!
.


...Bercuase, like EI it is MANDATORY even though it is a tyotal waste of time. Remember, what would be the equivalent of "grade 2 or 3" in England is the same as a PhD in Canada. All they teach in Canada is cheeky crap and nonsense. And the qualifications from Canada such as to be a lawyer might as well be sent in exchange for half a dozen cornflakes packet tops. The average Canadian is an uneducated, ignorant, inbred slob, barely able to tell day from night.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by ballisticmousse
Of course I don't have home insurance of ANY sort. I'm not wasting my hard-earned cash on giving it to someone for nothing. What do you take me for? A born-yesterday mug?


Well then in that case, you better pray your house doesn't go up in flames... all that hard earned cash you've spent on investing in a house aiming towards ownership will be "bye bye".

You'll be on the street with nothing but the shirt on your back.

"Bye bye" to all your hard earned cash investment.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by fenceSitter

Originally posted by ballisticmousse
Well, of course $15 an hour is a GREAT wage, and certainly more than they are getting at the moment, ie nothing at all. (And why should they be getting anything at all when they can't be bothered to work?)


When minimum wage is $10/hr you seriously cannot label $15/hr a GREAT wage. With heating, electric, property, fuel and food prices constantly on the rise, you would have a hell of a time raising a family on $15/hr.


Of course ti would be tough to raise a family on $15 an hour because of all the money stripped out to pay for EI, a joke education system thqat ought to be turned striasght over to the private sector, and a huge Police bill to pay for guarding private property threatened by thugs from places like the CAW. Socialism creates huge fat bills everywhere that the ordinary taxpayer has to foot. It really is hard to imagine how much better the world would be without socialism to screw it up for everyone.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 03:14 PM
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Call in the Army to help the workers defend themselves isn't such a bad idea.

My bet is that if the workers got a hold of this plant and made the locomotives on their own, that they could keep paying themselves what they make and have substantial profits at the same time. Of course you would have to get people to buy them from a company different than Caterpillar, so it could be a hard sell.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by ballisticmousse
Remember, what would be the equivalent of "grade 2 or 3" in England is the same as a PhD in Canada. All they teach in Canada is cheeky crap and nonsense. And the qualifications from Canada such as to be a lawyer might as well be sent in exchange for half a dozen cornflakes packet tops. The average Canadian is an uneducated, ignorant, inbred slob, barely able to tell day from night.



And now we are done with any further discussion.

Congratulations, you've just shown you're true colours and your lack of academia is screaming loud and clear.

Go back to Britain, apparently you're still in need of that "higher" education.

Done.


edit on 7-2-2012 by CranialSponge because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by fenceSitter


When minimum wage is $10/hr


I fully admit that I had no idea that the minimum wage had hit $10 an hour. THis is disgusting [-way, way too much and an absolute job-killer at that level. It should be done away with to allow the market reach its own true level and resolve the unemployment problem. Minimum wage is an insult in the face of God.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by ballisticmousse

Originally posted by fenceSitter


When minimum wage is $10/hr


I fully admit that I had no idea that the minimum wage had hit $10 an hour. THis is disgusting [-way, way too much and an absolute job-killer at that level. It should be done away with to allow the market reach its own true level and resolve the unemployment problem. Minimum wage is an insult in the face of God.


My money says that you don't even have a job or have ever worked a 40 hour week. I hope you end up with one of those 50 cents a day jobs they had back in the good old days when everything was right about America.

Insert throw-up gizmo.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 03:35 PM
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Fire every last one of them and bring in scabs. There are thousands of people who would jump at the chance for $16 an hour. This plant makes train engines which are not selling to well right now. Either they take a cut in pay or the entire plant will close, its as simple as that.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by ballisticmousse

Originally posted by CranialSponge

Originally posted by ballisticmousse
But this is exactly what I said. After being way overpaid for many years at twice what they were worth, yet they were offered good jobs at a good rate of pay, $15 a hour, but they were too cocky, believing themselves to be entitled to be on the gravytrain for life.

And why they should be entitled to any welfare baffles me., although, had they actually wanted an income, they could have actually got jobs at somewhere else like McDonalds instead of trying to scrounge off the state.



Are you kidding me ?!

Do you actually believe that $15 per hour is a "good" wage for someone who spent 5 years in an apprenticeship program earning their journeyman machinist/millwright papers ?!

We're not talking about unskilled labourers here man. Most of these people are ticketed, skilled workers.

Get your story straight.


Well, of course $15 an hour is a GREAT wage, and certainly more than they are getting at the moment, ie nothing at all. (And why should they be getting anything at all when they can't be bothered to work?)
You obviously don't live in Canada. The cost of living is twice as much as it is in the states.$15.00Hr. is like $6.00Hr. here.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by ballisticmousse

Originally posted by fenceSitter


When minimum wage is $10/hr


I fully admit that I had no idea that the minimum wage had hit $10 an hour. THis is disgusting [-way, way too much and an absolute job-killer at that level. It should be done away with to allow the market reach its own true level and resolve the unemployment problem. Minimum wage is an insult in the face of God.
I have never seen a person so out of touch with reality. Do you live in China or somewhere, where you work your a$$ off to earn $5.00 a day and are happy? And as for not paying insurance on an investment like your home, ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I am seeing a great deal of trolling going on here. You sound extremely angry at the world, which usually indicates how you feel about yourself. You come off as someone who believes everyone shouldn’t have a better life because you lack one yourself. Grow-up! Your true colors are starting to show! ATS does have a “rant “section. I suggest you visit it….
edit on 7-2-2012 by Propulsion because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 05:49 PM
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reply to post by ballisticmousse
 


if they offer you 50% ...take it and look for another job.

That way you still have an income and can find another job...

If I start a company and hire 2 people and pay them 20$ and hour....then business is bad so I tell them I can either let you go/ lay you off....or you can work for 50% cut and make 10$ and hour..

They don't have the right to demand the 20$ or seize my store.....

It's my store...my rules...my way...my money......people should be thankful they have a job.

50% of what they were making is still more than I am.

is their work that specific where there is no other work these people can get ?

It's not like they are surgeons or dentists.



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