Those who reject the Christ will end up accepting the Anti-Christ

Jesus is a key figure among the 3 Abrahamic religions -seen as "messiah" in Christianity and Islam, and rejected as a "false prophet" in Judaism.

The religion of the Jews goes one step further in its vehement opposition of Jesus, and also in its slandering of him as a "false prophet" and as an "illegitimate" offspring. Given all of this, its indeed ironic how the Jewish state, being literally the most anti-christian entity in modern times, receives the most support from those "followers of Christ" - the Christians.

While it can be argued that its 'normal' for one religion to disregard the central figure of another religion, what is indeed bizarre is one religious group(christians) openly supporting the very religious group(jews) that opposes and insults their central religious figure. Reason being, the Christians have a certain interpretation of prophecy that allows them to rationalize the jewish opposition to Jesus as being part of some "prophecy" or a "plan of God".

Christian attempts at interpreting the vague prophecies always operate under assumptions that are in favor of the state of Israel and Jews.
i.e - That Israel has to be victorious, That anti-christian jews will miraculously accept Jesus and so on. In reality, a lot of prophecy predicts future political scenarios and events.

Going back now to those who reject the Christ...
Since the jews still await the Messiah, they will end up welcoming as "messiah" someone who wins political/military victories on behalf of Israel.... (something like how the Israelite Jews in the past called a certain Persian king "messiah".) So there is a good chance that the very anti-christ might be declared "messiah" by the jews!!

My guess is this : The anti-christ might be a powerful Israeli politician or a military leader who will ruthlessly annihilate the percieved enemies of Israel... the muslims and win the following of Jews.

If my guess is correct, he will NOT target the countries that are allied to him, i.e - The countries of the West who support him. Instead, he will go after the countries following a religion that is most demonized today... the religion that has the reputation of being most directly opposed to the state of Israel...Islam.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n



i believe in the big G and the big G only.

i don't trust politicians, they only care about money and power.

easy mode: be a good person and don't trust anybody.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Wow touchy subject for ATS, but I see where you are going. It's a scary thought for someone like me, to understand that some people who hold positions of power, honestly believe this religious dogma and would actively help bring it to reality.

It has been my long standing opinion that the war that will bring us to the brink of annihilation would be started by or for Israel.

I recently read "The Wandering Who" a fantastic book about Jewish Identity politics. The author, who is an Israeli Jew living in England who served in the IDF, explains how to him through his learning, that Judaism has been essentially hijacked by a neo-zionist ideal.

Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, but it does describe the mentality of some of the ultra-right groups in Israel.

Their Judaism is based entirely on Jewish suffering, Jewish extermination, and Jewish survival. That taken at face value makes sense if you consider the history of the Hebrews. But if you examine it more closely you'll see that the entire belief system requires Jewish suffering, real or perceived.

Much like the US needed a common enemy (Islam) to "unite" most of the people, this form of Judaism REQUIRES an evil entity hell bent on exterminating the jews. The scary part comes in when these people also firmly believe in the religious dogma.

Meaning, they would not only want Israel to be attacked and to bring it to it's knees as the religious texts suggest, they might actually HELP this happen, because the ends justify the means.

Continuing along that line of thinking, it is entirely possible that "the antichrist" will be cheered and applauded for destroying Israels enemies.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


As an Atheist, I've a strong feeling I'll not be accepting any kind of christ.
Then again, not as an Atheist, but, someone that really disapproves of most so called christians, I'm already somewhat antichrist. Not THE antichrist mind you, whoever, or whatever that may be, but, just antichristian.

I really wish you guys would hurry up and have your rapture and go away, leaving all us to continue in peace after we get finished fighting over all the cool stuff and swag you leave behind.

I don't mean this posting to be offensive. I'm just expressing my opinion in regards to the subject.
In essence, some of us are already anti-christian.
I'm not anti-christian because I'm an Atheist. That alone would make me simply NON-whatever.
I'm fine with the Hindus.
Kickin' it with them folk is pretty arright.

reply to post by nineix


Couldn't agree more! Though the Buddhists are alright in my book, I mean those monks can do some weird stuff like raising there body temperatures by up to 16 degrees!

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

While it can be argued that its 'normal' for one religion to disregard the central figure of another religion, what is indeed bizarre is one religious group(christians) openly supporting the very religious group(jews) that opposes and insults their central religious figure. Reason being, the Christians have a certain interpretation of prophecy that allows them to rationalize the jewish opposition to Jesus as being part of some "prophecy" or a "plan of God".

Star and flag for that alone, friend. I too am left in wonderment at this, I have heard ministers venomously speak out on support of Israel, and anyone knows that a future president of the United State MUST swear allegiance to Jesus and the Christian Faith.
(see Obama's speeches)

Muslim, right? Nothing wrong with that. But then there is this......

Who is Barack Obama? Muslim, Christian, or Marxist?
Also, a future president MUST swear full, blind support of Israel, and that includes billions of taxpayer dollars, folks.

Recently Americans have begun to read and hear that “Israel receives $3 billion in annual U.S. foreign aid.” That's true. But it's still a lie. The problem is that in fiscal 1997 alone, Israel received from a variety of other U.S. federal budgets at least $525.8 million above and beyond its $3 billion from the foreign aid budget, and yet another $2 billion in federal loan guarantees. So the complete total of U.S. grants and loan guarantees to Israel for fiscal 1997 was $5,525,800,000.

Source
This is why I support Ron Paul, one of the big reasons. America is supporting foreign Nations all over the world while half of the Americans are on some kind of government support. We are very quickly becoming an Entitlement Nation.
Am I alone here in thinking that it is time, past time, for America to take care of Her own?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Very interesting post. I think Christians have to accept Judaism because their entire religion and the whole book they believe in originates from ancient Israel. To reject Judaism is to reject their own religion, because Jesus was a Jew. The entire Old Testament is Judaism from ancient days.

However, in our day and age, we are also being hijacked by a Zionist agenda. I remember flipping through some weird cable channels one evening, and there was some woman on a Christian channel with a bible in her hand, giving a lecture about how we MUST support Israel, no matter what she does, because Israel is God's chosen land, and Israelis are His chosen people, and if we don't support their every action, we are doomed to hell.

Tell me that's not being hijacked by an agenda!! They are counting on the vast majority of Christian Americans being as dumb as a bag of hammers and unable to tell the difference between what is obviously right and moral, and what is a political ploy to squeeze us of our money and make us into one big puppet for a Zionist state, who is willing to bankrupt itself and go to war in order to advance the goals of a foreign entity which hates us.

reply to post by autowrench


The same thing happening in UK. Were pumping millions into India an economy that will soon overtake ours, it seems as if the west is just giving its money away, perhaps something bigger aloof? I cant remember where i saw it but I remember reading about a bible prophecy about two economic superpowers uniting, one sits under a Lion and unicorn i.e UK and the other an eagle i.e USA, but it mentions the house of Israel coming back in its true form and I believe that it was mentioned it is during this current time that this prophecy will be fulfilled and that the eagle and lion will lose its power and the end times would begin. I think im missing something but cant remember what!

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

The religion of the Jews goes one step further in its vehement opposition of Jesus, and also in its slandering of him as a "false prophet" and as an "illegitimate" offspring. Given all of this, its indeed ironic how the Jewish state, being literally the most anti-christian entity in modern times, receives the most support from those "followers of Christ" - the Christians.

We don't support Israel or the Jews because of their religion. We Christians believe Jesus pronounced spiritual blindness on them when He was preparing to make His triumphal entry into Jerusalem. And that spiritual blindness isn't forever. We support them because God has promised to bless those who bless her and to curse those who curse her (Israel).

Of course that doesn't mean that we approve of all they do, we don't. But we support them none the less. At some point in time the church dispensation will end and the tribulation will begin and in their extreme affliction they will embrace their Messiah and call on Him to return and save them.

I think you are looking at religon from a very duality way. That one religon is right while the other is wrong. I belive all people can reach Christ Conciousness/Buddhahood from any view of reality they come from (atheists and religon). Good and evil is based on perception so it is not a good way to organize behaviour. Ego and egoless is the duality that should be focused on. Service to self and service to all. The parasitic part of service to self and pyramid of power is flawed and only leeds to self destruction given enought time. Those that want's to connect with god will go towards egolessness, love and harmony with all people. The ones who go the other way that is antichrist (rejecting christ conciousness with god) is going towards ego, hate, fear, divide and conquerer.

There is no right way to view god. There is a truth but god is egoless and will not care if you belive everything right. If he did then it would be the fault of him since he is also the teacher that helps us evolve. Good luck in your evolution and look within for your connection. You have it in you to start connecting. The Christ Conciousness is only the beginning not the end. When the student is ready the master appears. Namaste

I don't accept ANY made up deity!

I worship no one or no "thing"....

Except maybe my dog, At least she isn't vengeful, judgmental or bigoted....

Plus I get unconditional love in return for 2 meals a day, free medical care and the occasional long walk...


Can't get THAT from any human I've ever known...

Hmm.

Another anti-Israel thread on ATS.

Colour me surprised.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

We don't support Israel or the Jews because of their religion. We Christians believe Jesus pronounced spiritual blindness on them when He was preparing to make His triumphal entry into Jerusalem. And that spiritual blindness isn't forever. We support them because God has promised to bless those who bless her and to curse those who curse her (Israel).

This is exactly what I meant when I said in the OP

the Christians have a certain interpretation of prophecy that allows them to rationalize the jewish opposition to Jesus as being part of some "prophecy" or a "plan of God".

Jesus did not pronounce spiritual blindness on anybody. Remember that many of the jews living in his time accepted him as messiah. The rest who did not accept him, hated him and had him nailed to a cross, and called for Jesus blood to be upon them.


" We support them because God has promised to bless those who bless her and to curse those who curse her (Israel)."

That was addressed specifically to Abraham, not the entire nation of Israel, which was not even in existence when it was spoken.
Read that verse in context..


The LORD had said to Abram, "Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you.
"I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."
So Abram left, as the LORD had told him; and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he set out from Haran.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


We still don't support Israel or the Jews because of their religion.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

We still don't support Israel or the Jews because of their religion.

No, you do it because you are following the theory of someone you claim to have not ever read, meaning the nineteenth century defrocked clergyman turned prophet, John Nelson Darby.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

We still don't support Israel or the Jews because of their religion.

No, you do it because you are following the theory of someone you claim to have not ever read, meaning the nineteenth century defrocked clergyman turned prophet, John Nelson Darby.

No, I support them because if I've said it once I've said it a hundred times to you. Paul hammers away for 3 chapters in Romans (9,10 & 11) that God is not finished with the Jews and that they have a prophetic destiny. Jesus proclaimed temporary blindness on the nation, and Paul later tells us that blindness isn't forever but until the fullness of the gentiles come into the faith.

That's from S-C-R-I-P-T-U-R-E JM, not some 'nineteenth century' work of literature.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Paul hammers away for 3 chapters in Romans (9,10 & 11) that God is not finished with the Jews and that they have a prophetic destiny. Jesus proclaimed temporary blindness on the nation, and Paul later tells us that blindness isn't forever but until the fullness of the gentiles come into the faith.

I'm sure you would be happy to produce those scripture fragments all arranged nicely by Darby to support your claims you are making here.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I've never read any works by Darby, I've already told you this.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

We still don't support Israel or the Jews because of their religion.

I never said you did, but you still justify to yourself that Jews need to be supported because of wrong interpretations of verses such as Genesis 12:3.

You support anti-christian Jews who hate and oppose Jesus, yet you condemn everybody else who revere Jesus, but in a way slightly different from yours... even other christian denominations.

No, catholic prophecy shows that Israel will be the superpower of the world some day and the antichrist will kill christians who will not accept his claims to be the messiah. The Jews will think he is the true messiah because of his political and military victories, in addition to his Satanic miracles. The whole world will be subdued by Israel.