Catholic League Poised To Go To War With Obama Over Mandatory Birth Control Payments, page 1


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reply posted on 7-2-2012 @ 04:02 AM by ignorant_ape
reply to post by xuenchen



health care is health care - you cannot cherry pick which elements to support and when secular health care providers support ALL elements , to attempt to cherry pick is blatant discrimination


reply posted on 7-2-2012 @ 06:52 AM by Benevolent Heretic
The leaders are the ones throwing a fit. Regular Catholics use birth control widely.

Practice What You Preach


I first learned that Catholics don’t always practice what the church preaches about contraception when I was pretty young, no more than 12. My stay-at-home mom did the laundry, and it was my job to help her fold the clothes and put them in everyone’s drawers when I got home from school. One day putting my father’s socks away, I found a box of condoms at the back of his sock drawer.


The church should not be the ones deciding. Each individual should decide if they want birth control or not. And from the numbers I've seen, many are deciding they do.
edit on 2/7/2012 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 7-2-2012 @ 07:00 AM by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by Finalized



They're not mandating that they TAKE birth control.

And no matter how much people try to make it look like Catholics are being forced to take birth control, it's just NOT true. No one is being forced to. It's just available for the 60% or so who already do use it.
edit on 2/7/2012 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 7-2-2012 @ 08:54 AM by ignorant_ape
reply to post by Finalized



UTTER TWADDLE - this is not forcing catholics to use birth control , its forcing catholic organisations health plans [ insurance ] to PAY FOR birth control

not all people who work for catholic organisations are actually catholic

and to use your diet analogy , vegans would not be forced to eat meat , vegan organisations would be forced to pay for omnivores meat


reply posted on 7-2-2012 @ 09:06 AM by xuenchen
Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to
post by xuenchen



health care is health care - you cannot cherry pick which elements to support and when secular health care providers support ALL elements , to attempt to cherry pick is blatant discrimination


I agree.

However, the Administration has been handing out waivers and exceptions like crazy.

Some actually religious based.

I guess then, the Administration is practicing discrimination.

The SCOTUS is going to rule soon on parts (or all) of the HC bill.

If the SCOTUS decides to pick and choose, then what will that be called ?


reply posted on 7-2-2012 @ 09:16 AM by tomd1111
reply to post by sonnny1



No, it is considered an extremely powerful and wealthy institution..I am a Catholic..I don't believe in every doctorine, including contraception being wrong. However, I do believe that private institutions, companies, etc., should have a right to provide what they want. The governement shouldn't be "forcing" employers to do anything either. If you want to make certain things mandatory and available for public school students, and services that we pay for with tax dollars..ok. Private companies, institutions, etc., shouldn't have to do anything.



reply posted on 7-2-2012 @ 09:21 AM by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by xuenchen



Originally posted by xuenchen
However, the Administration has been handing out waivers and exceptions like crazy.

Some actually religious based.


Is this true? Can you provide a link? Because I was under the impression that the waivers (some 1200) were for health benefit caps, not religion. And those will be removed in the next couple years. What are the religious exceptions?


reply posted on 7-2-2012 @ 09:22 AM by sonnny1
reply to post by tomd1111



I agree.

But you have to consider what predicament this puts on those that follow the Catholic church.

Heres one example.

My Father is a staunch Obama supporter,AFL-CIO member,and voted Democrat all his life.
He is also a highly religious Catholic,and would walk on glass if the Holy Father told him to.
That being said,he has already told me he will not vote for Obama,if the Church in anyway says not to.

That's one vote for the Church,zero for Obama.


reply posted on 7-2-2012 @ 09:27 AM by tomd1111
reply to post by sonnny1



I think your example will be common and this will be a major blow for the dems. Which makes me ask (because all I have seen about this story was the title this morning on Drudge), when did this come out, why would they want to battle this now, or was bringing this to light a now a carefully crafted GOP stunt?


reply posted on 7-2-2012 @ 09:29 AM by FlyersFan
Obama and his administration are dead wrong.

THIS IS THE US LAW - it protects everyones right to practice their faith -

First Amendment to the US Constitution

The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.


EXACT TEXT
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


This is the Catholic faith - it says they can't participate IN ANY MANNER - which includes helping others to have abortions or abortificants or birth control.

Church law - Catechism of the Catholic Church - Part three, section two, chapter two

Catholic teaching on abortion/birth control
In Humanae Vitae, Pope Paul VI stated, "[W]e must once again declare that the direct interruption of the generative process already begun, and, above all, directly willed and procured abortion, even if for therapeutic reasons, are to be absolutely excluded as licit means of regulating birth. Equally to be excluded, as the teaching authority of the Church has frequently declared, is direct sterilization, whether perpetual or temporary, whether of the man or of the woman. Similarly excluded is every action which, either in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" (HV 14).

This was reiterated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church: "[E]very action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible is intrinsically evil" (CCC 2370). "Legitimate intentions on the part of the spouses do not justify recourse to morally unacceptable means . . . for example, direct sterilization or contraception" (CCC 2399).

The Church also has affirmed that the illicitness of contraception is an infallible doctrine: "The Church has always taught the intrinsic evil of contraception, that is, of every marital act intentionally rendered unfruitful. This teaching is to be held as definitive and irreformable. Contraception is gravely opposed to marital chastity, it is contrary to the good of the transmission of life (the procreative.aspect of matrimony), and to the reciprocal self-giving of the spouses (the unitive.aspect of matrimony); it harms true love and denies the sovereign role of God in the transmission of human life" (Vademecum for Confessors 2:4, Feb. 12, 1997).


Catholic law on abortion
Excommunication for those aborting ...
Against the faith and 'serious sin' for those who assist those getting the abortion.
(ditto artifical birth control)


reply posted on 7-2-2012 @ 09:35 AM by sonnny1
Originally posted by tomd1111
reply to
post by sonnny1



I think your example will be common and this will be a major blow for the dems. Which makes me ask (because all I have seen about this story was the title this morning on Drudge), when did this come out, why would they want to battle this now, or was bringing this to light a now a carefully crafted GOP stunt?


Could be a bit of both.

Elections,its a hot topic, the Catholic Church has been getting beat on many levels,and this is something that could bring Catholics together,and the GOP playing into the Church's main support network. Lets not forget about faith also.....

Regardless,Obama will lose many votes. When my father told me that,I was speechless.

If Obama was smart,he would fix it so it works inline with Catholic teachings. I know,it sounds bad, but if its a vote thing,that's what hes going to have to do.
edit on 7-2-2012 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)

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