Originally posted by taibunsuu

Best way to keep people from burning the flag is by making sure the government doesn't do anything to stain it in the first place.

We can't just BUMP on this board so let me add-

well said.

Flag burning makes me sick. I did not go to war for the flag. I went to war for the ideals the flag represents. I don't support an amendment to ban flag burning, but I believe that local jurisdictions should be able to prosecute laws against this act.

In order to appreciate my view, you must be able to separate the concrete from the abstract. A flag is a symbol. It is made of some material and can be bought and sold. If you own a flag, it's yours and you should be able to do with it what you will.

Then we have the problem of what is a flag. Can a person be prosecuted for his flag pin falling off his cap. What if I burn a flag with 52 stars and 14 stripes? Is that desecrating the flag?

The proper way to despose of a worn flag is to burn it!

I think you get my drift. The Supreme Court probably made a good decision when you look at all the convolutions flag burners are able to give the law.

The best way to deal with flag burners is to note their identity and to greet them personally with some privately administered persuasive measures.

But, hey. This is America where we celebrate out traitors. Look at Jane Fonda and John Kerry.

[edit on 04/9/16 by GradyPhilpott]

I've seen someone burn the flag when I was in DC and thought they looked like morons anyway, people who get an ideal and can't weigh things objectively. They were really young kids probably students. This was right in front of the White House during Clinton times about some free trade protest. It didn't help that they held the flag too long and almost burned themselves. A lot of people were booing and the guy had this idioitic look on his face when he was done. The police came in and stomped the fire out pretty quick. The guy passed right by me and I said "Good job, moron." Same stupid grin like he was on drugs. I think that when people go to that length to protest something they kind of kill their own message anyway.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
The best way to deal with flag burners is to note their identity and to greet them personally with some privately administered persuasive measures.
[edit on 04/9/16 by GradyPhilpott]

Yeah, where is that practiced?? Oh yeah, totalitarian states i.e. North Korea

btw your sig is stupid =P



[edit on 9/16/2004 by s13guy]

Originally posted by s13guybtw your sig is stupid =P

You can thank John Kerry for my sig. He made it cool to be a Vietnam Veteran again after smearing all of us with his lies in 1971. Oh, yeah. I don't care what you think. When did you serve your country?

[edit on 04/9/16 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
When did you serve your country?

i served in nam in 46"

Originally posted by taibunsuu
Burning a flag as protest is an act of free speech.

speech n, 1) the power of speaking 2) the act or manner of speaking 3) talk; conversation 4) a public discourse 5) language, dialect

Maybe the Supreme Court justices have a different dictionary than the one I own.

I folded the flag into its triangle and carried it in my coat since there was no respectible way to display it.

Now that is commendable!

The flag represents a dream.

The flag represents it's people. Those who do fly the flag is telling the world, yes, an American is here, and I have no shame in it.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by s13guybtw your sig is stupid =P

You can thank John Kerry for my sig. He made it cool to be a Vietnam Veteran again after smearing all of us with his lies in 1971. Oh, yeah. I don't care what you think. When did you serve your country?

[edit on 04/9/16 by GradyPhilpott]

Keep your cool! Your medals are honorable! I know that and you know that! Ask these people, where in the hell is John Kerry's? And their's?

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott


You can thank John Kerry for my sig. He made it cool to be a Vietnam Veteran again after smearing all of us with his lies in 1971. Oh, yeah. I don't care what you think. When did you serve your country?

[edit on 04/9/16 by GradyPhilpott]

I actually think your sig is pretty hip, but I'm curious to hear about your reaction to the GOP convention handing out Bandaids with Purple Hearts to the spectators. I see you have a Purple Heart yourself, and wonder how you feel about the Bush Administration supporting something like that.

I would expect most people that burn flags are not doing so to dishonor military men that fought and died for it, but rather to make a statement about the people that sent them to war. Surely some of you don't think the act is meant to be disrespectful? If the government was not so screwed up, filled with scandals, etc. (and doing its job right) then people would not be forced to show their emotions through flag burning.

Also, if flag burning is ever banned, it would only be fair to also ban anyone from displaying the Confederate flag. That flag goes againt the Union and modern America, so why is it not banned? Its quite funny that people that hate flag burning are much of the same people that proudly display that un-American Confederate flag on their Bumper or window. Seems a little hypocritical to me...

Flag burning IS in effect telling the government something to the effect of "Hey, wake up! We are not going to stand for how you are treating us." So, is it the fault of the person wanting to speak up and try and take back their country, or the fault of an uncaring government?

What is more un-American...proudly displaying the Confederate flag, which held on to old values of inhumanity and prejudice? Or, burning the American flag to show your displeasure with the current system? I don't know about the rest of you, but the first one clearly wins that debate.

On a side note, and this is purely my opinion...IT'S A PIECE OF CLOTH PEOPLE! I fail to see why people get so worked up over a SYMBOL, when we should be caring more about REAL issues that affect us today. This is one of the problems of our society...we care to much about petty things like this instead of devoting our time to focus on real issues. This goes for both the flag burners and the one's trying to say what they do is wrong...cut out the symbolism and idiosyncrasies of life and just state what you really think. Maybe this way things would actually get resolved instead of jumping around the issues. Ok, I said my piece...Rant over

Originally posted by Jazzerman
if flag burning is ever banned, it would only be fair to also ban anyone from displaying the Confederate flag. That flag goes againt the Union and modern America, so why is it not banned? Its quite funny that people that hate flag burning are much of the same people that proudly display that un-American Confederate flag on their Bumper or window. Seems a little hypocritical to me...

Let's don't get started on the Confederate flag. It's just as big a part of American history as the Stars and Stripes! There is nothing wrong with displaying the Conferate flag, but that's not what this thread's about , now is it!

What is more un-American...proudly displaying the Confederate flag, which held on to old values of inhumanity and prejudice?

Hey, you got that all wrong. The reason that the Confederate flag ever came into existance, was the Federal Government prohibiting states to tend to their own affairs! The whole thing (the Civil War) boils down to the rights of each state! Nothing more!

we should be caring more about REAL issues that affect us today.

Let's get our people to start respecting each other and their country first, because without this, real issues cannot be dealt with.

Originally posted by mwm1331
I think flag burnng as a political statement is one of the most repugnant, offensive, and disgusting acts an american citizen could perform....
I would however march, vote, fight, and if necessary take up arms in defense of your right to burn the Amercan flag.

Nice one, MWM1331. You've summed up my position perfectly. thx!


I do wonder, however, if the right to burn the American flag should be extended to non-citizens on American soil. I'm more uncomfortable with non-citizens doing this on our soil.

Originally posted by oppodeldoc
I see you have a Purple Heart yourself, and wonder how you feel about the Bush Administration supporting something like that.

I'm not sure the Bush administration had anything to do with that gesture. I rather doubt it, as the administration has stayed out of the veteran status melee and have said nothing but good things about Kerry's service.

If the bandaids had borne an image of the Purple Heart award, it would have been indefensible. As it was, it was in a league with most political jabs taken at opponents during the campaigns. Only Kerry has to live with the manner in which his medals were awarded.

In my units, Purple Hearts would not have been awarded for the wounds he received. I had to wait until I got back to the States and Headquarters Marine Corps verified the circumstances under which I was wounded before my medal was forthcoming. My hospital transfers and convalescence might have slowed things down, as I was informed when I was in Japan that I would be receiving the award.

However, I had to take the initiative to follow up on the award and authorization came from the Commandant himself. These things are not taken lightly in the Corps.

"Saturday Night Live" made light of Robert Dole's Purple Heart, portraying him as wearing a full size ribbon on his lapel rather than a lapel pin. I would rather not see these things, but they happen.

These are certainly not in a league with the efforts to besmirch GWs service, which was honorable if not distinguished. Certainly, my own service was undistiguished.



[edit on 04/9/16 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by Intelearthling
Let's don't get started on the Confederate flag. It's just as big a part of American history as the Stars and Stripes! There is nothing wrong with displaying the Conferate flag, but that's not what this thread's about , now is it!

Hey, you got that all wrong. The reason that the Confederate flag ever came into existance, was the Federal Government prohibiting states to tend to their own affairs! The whole thing (the Civil War) boils down to the rights of each state! Nothing more!

Ok, first off don't fool yourself into believing in the whole "poor southern states and their fight for states rights." No matter what you believe the Civil War started over slavery, and yes, states rights were a key issue. However, it was over the states rights to own slaves. Now, how should that be considered right? You can skirt around the issue all you want, but history clearly records that slavery was the main issue. Therefore, that Confederate flag that you say should be a part of American history is nothing more than a symbol of slavery and hatred.

I knew that you would stick up for the Confederate flag, saying that its "a part of history", because many of the same people that hate flag burning with a passion, are the same people that will stick up for the Confederacy. Again, don't fool yourself...the Southern states were going to run out of workers in the cotton fields if the Union decided to do away with slavery. The south believed they had unfair representation. The southern states complained of the northern states and the federal failure to return fugitive slaves. Southern states such as what Mississippi said in 1861 prove just that, "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery — the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization."

Dancing around this is not going to help you win. Whether you want to admit it or not the Civil War was about Human Rights and slavery, and had little to do with state rights. What are you claiming? That the northern states simply turn a blind eye to the cruel mistreatment that was going on just because it was the "states rights". That Confederate flag stands for everything THEY stood for, and what they stood for is NOT what my America stands for. So, I say to you again...a comparison between flag burning and the showing of the Confederate flag is prudent.

So, are you saying that by showing a Confederate flag you are somehow "showing us an historical symbol?" A symbol that represents all that America is supposed to stand against? Are you telling me that by displaying this you consider yourself pro-America, when in fact that flag is anti-American? How can this be...

Either you love America and all that it stands for or you hate America and all that it stands for. If America stands for abolishing slavery, and you show that Confederate flag, are you not in fact saying you agree with slavery? Would that not be anti-American?

[edit on 16-9-2004 by Jazzerman]

Originally posted by Jazzerman
I fail to see why people get so worked up over a SYMBOL, when we should be caring more about REAL issues that affect us today.

I keep my own perspective about the flag in this mattter. However, I have to pity the man who has no symbol which means enough to him that he is not offended when it is desecrated. I can only conclude that those persons have never given of themselves to anything of value. If the symbol of your country has not meaing to you, such that you are not offended by its desecration, then it can only mean that you have never learned the meaning of respect as a value and you have nothing invested in that thing which the symbol represents.

Burning the symbol of your right to free speech is not an appropriate manner in which to exercise your free speech. When America crumbles because the majority of young Americans feel as you do, I hope that you are a helpless old man left to the devices of the barabarians who will have their run of the nation.

Oh, and your understanding of the War of Northern Aggression is so wrong that it can only be the result of the revisitionist marxist who now rule the US educational system. You should spend some time actually getting an education rather that completing the requirements for your diploma.


[edit on 04/9/16 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by PublicGadfly

NotTooHappy


Are you from the south? I'm think Alabama or some other intolerant state. You probably want to run all the long hairs, coloreds and foreigners out of the country too.
I'm an American and, I'll treat the American flag however I want. Like Lary Flyntt said, "If the First Amendment will protect a scumbag like me, it will protect all of you."

Other than your WRONG southern slam (based on bias or some such thing) the rest of what you posted hits it all.

Burn the flag- if someone whips you for it, burn another one.

I changed my original post because I came off as an ass.
Intelearthling, sorry if I offended your southern heritage.

P.S. I wasn't told to change my post or apologize, I just didn't want to come off as an ass.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

quiet old man before we put you in a home =P



[edit on 9/17/2004 by s13guy]

Originally posted by NotTooHappy

Originally posted by PublicGadfly

NotTooHappy


Are you from the south? I'm think Alabama or some other intolerant state. You probably want to run all the long hairs, coloreds and foreigners out of the country too.
I'm an American and, I'll treat the American flag however I want. Like Lary Flyntt said, "If the First Amendment will protect a scumbag like me, it will protect all of you."

Other than your WRONG southern slam (based on bias or some such thing) the rest of what you posted hits it all.

Burn the flag- if someone whips you for it, burn another one.

I changed my original post because I came off as an ass.
Intelearthling, sorry if I offended your southern heritage.

P.S. I wasn't told to change my post or apologize, I just didn't want to come off as an ass.

No offense taken. And yes, we still fly the Battle Flag, with the flag of the United States on top of course. And we fly it not to offend others. It's a reminder of who we are and what our heritage is all about. There is a serious misconception about the history of the Confederacy that needs to be cleared up, but I don't see it happening any time soon.

P.S. Good lookin' avatar!

[edit on 17/9/04 by Intelearthling]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Oh, and your understanding of the War of Northern Aggression is so wrong that it can only be the result of the revisitionist marxist who now rule the US educational system. You should spend some time actually getting an education rather that completing the requirements for your diploma.
[edit on 04/9/16 by GradyPhilpott]

Grady, I take no stock in what you say anymore. There has been more than one instance where you tell people that you are wrong, and then you tell them that they are Marxist. Other people could attest to this as well. Who do you think you are fooling?

Also, you seem to be the one that blindly follows what he is told, and to a lesser extent what he is to believe. You need to accept the fact that the Civil War was fought about slavery, and both you and intelearthling can call me a Revisionist all you want, but it does not levy the fact that it was fought for that reason. Perhaps you are one of the people that believe what standard textbooks will have you believe, and thats fine if you feel like getting your education in such a manner. As you have clearly demonstrated throughout your postings you are the one that believes everything he is told. Also, what is wrong with revisionism? Its a key element in historical research and a key element to purely understanding and "revising" history so that one can find the truth. If you cannot see that then I really do feel sorry that you hold on to your "old" way of thinking...ie believing that the South were "victims", etc.

PS- You say you feel sad for people that take no stock in symbolism...well, I feel sad for people that take symbolism to heart and let it eat at their soul day in and day out, as it appears to do to you. I can't change the way you are, and I really don't care to.

It astonishes me that when two or less people a year burn an American flag that we have to start a new bureaucracy employing thousands of people to chase people who accidentally burn a little sugar flag on their birthday cake.

Notice how nations like Iran cut off heads when their little flag fetish is insulted.

No give me America, where there is no flag phobia, and for all practical purposes zero flag burnings. I am not offended at all! People are more important than little pieces of cloth, and small minded people who over sacredize these things.

At the same time I am even more proud of our flag because I could burn it, even though I would never ever burn it, except quite properly to dispose of it when it either touches the ground, or becomes too tattered.

By the way, we are all registered to protest any time any place, because we have a document called the Constitution of the United States of America, that is better than any temporary tyrant who ignores it.

If our country passes an amendment to outlaw flag disrespect, it will have forgotten what the flag represents. It will create as I have said, a make work bureaucracy where its end product is to make people wish to be as far away from any US flag as possible, to avoid any possibility of offending some small minded arbitrary flag tzar who deals out judgment and danger.

[edit on 17-9-2004 by SkipShipman]