What do you expect? The world of ATS is not free.

*sigh*
I'm middle aged, so I think that entitles me to a little whinging now and then, so please bear with me.

A recent topic about a jade artifact was started recently www.abovetopsecret.com... and at its core was a pretty interesting topic. However, things very quickly moved south because the Op had linked to a website which is in the eye's of ATS staff, had been known to be making up lies. And my goodness, how flipping fast so many of you turned! (Also, it was automatically censored, not by staff in person)

I was seriously shocked at how annoyed so many of you had gotten so fast! Fingers were pointed of double standards, blah blah blah. That's well within your rights I guess, but I hope that some of you may be able to take some time to look at things from a different angle.

This place, ATS, is not, and will never be your right to fame. This is user generated ENTERTAINMENT! What really gets my goat fluffy, is that no matter what the other website alleged, does it really matter??? So, they make some claim about ATS raising their Google results by dubious means.. NO! ATS raises its google results by CLEVER means!

There is now a whole industry out there of SEO's (Search Engine Optimizers). Without properly using SEO implementation, many web businesses would simply die. Google started out with good intentions (do no evil..lol), but for better or worse, google is now the "internet" as it were. You guys are given the privilege to post here about pretty much whatever the heck you want to write about. Much of it is a waste of internet space to be honest, but much of it is enlighting and insightful and educational and I thank the users for that, but you know what, that space is your privilege, not your right! And its NOT FREE!

Somebody has to pay for all this you know! How much did you pay to join ATS? Nothing. So who pays for it? Somebody has to because ATS is huge, and generates massive amounts of web traffic. This means paying for servers which do not come cheap when traffic is this high. Advertising is sadly the oil that greases the internet.

I'm betting at least 25% of the ATS crowd use some kind of Ad blocker service. This is clearly stated to be against ATS rules, but it happens anyway. So lets say only 75% let the ads run free. I'm thinking maybe about 5% of the ones left actually click on any ad links. Its these ads which make ATS possible, and free for me and you. So, who the heck honestly cares that ATS has optimized its potential to earn money to cover all this? It makes perfect business sense, otherwise this place just dies in a hole.

Yes, I don't agree with the blocking of 'that' website. I would not have bothered with it to be honest had it not been blocked. But all I see is someone who is jealous of a forum that's making things work by clever marketing. Yes, they are marketing YOU the authors, writers, researchers etc. But look behind you, is there a ATS man with a whip forcing you? No, you are making threads because its NICE to be heard. And its NICE to share with others.

And, I think its damn nice that ATS gave you the free privilege to post about pretty much whatever you like. I think its time to be a little more humble and accepting. If I owned this site, I'd damn well put in my own rules too, rules and boundaries are needed, or you end up with /b/. I honestly feel 'relocator' (thread in questions author) was given the short end of the stick and his/her thread was sadly offtopic for a good 80% of it. I'd love the thread to be restarted for them, and then you guys can have at it in here instead.

I know I'm in the minority standing up for ATS here, I don't mind. But if ATS did not fare so well in a google search, well, I don't think there would be much of an ATS left.

I feel better now I ranted! Thanks for reading

Originally posted by Qumulys

Yes, I don't agree with the blocking of 'that' website.

This is the only sentence in your rant that's relevant to the censorship.

If another website is making false accusations then why not publicly debate it and quash it once and for all?

Why sidestep it? Can somebody, anybody, answer me that?

Why not invite the accusers to the discussion?

If anything the debate would generate hype and INCREASE traffic. Everything else in your post reads like confused half-baked excuses.

I know I'm in the minority standing up for ATS here,

The reddit equivalent would be 'Prepare for downvotes' but really the truth is if ATS doesn't cost anything but still needs money to run we are the product being sold; You're saying we should be happy that we are being used to produce ATS' higher search rank and let their ads be splashed across the monitor of any new visitor unwise enough not to have anti-advertisement measures in place for when they visit a new site?

Sure, some may use adblock but ATS gets paid to host the ads, and maybe per ad clicked. Perhaps by using Adblock those who would not be interested in ATS' ads are in fact saving ATS' bandwidth and money by not pushing annoying ads on those who skip them anyways.

If those who click ads do, then the system works. ATS attracts flies with vinegar and honey, but that doesn't mean it's only vinegar or honey or flies. The whole is more that the sum of its parts.

reply to post by rexusdiablos


I agree, the censorship is a bit silly. But, as an owner of a site giving us this platform, I think that gives them a right to try and block it. Yeah, a debate about it in the open would be fine, perhaps there is some truth behind what they say. I think there is. But I think the only truths are in the 'fudgery' of how ATS is improving its google searches. Personally, I think that is very astute business sense. Without getting ATS a huge number of hits, the advertising revenue dies out and takes ATS with it.

That's bad for all of us dont you think?

Originally posted by Sachyriel

I know I'm in the minority standing up for ATS here,

The reddit equivalent would be 'Prepare for downvotes' but really the truth is if ATS doesn't cost anything but still needs money to run we are the product being sold; You're saying we should be happy that we are being used to produce ATS' higher search rank and let their ads be splashed across the monitor of any new visitor unwise enough not to have anti-advertisement measures in place for when they visit a new site?

Not saying we should be 'happy' we are being used. Of course we're being used! Its a user generated content site! Without the advertising (which I hate with a passion, but unless we're all prepared to pay a yearly membership fee, its not going anywhere) there wouldn't be a chance for people to post in the first place. I'm sure people want to create threads because a voice amongst friends is fine, but to have your voice heard to hundreds, if not thousands, gives you a warm fuzzy feeling of importance inside. Its beneficial for all of us. Without the audience, we might as well just chat to ourselves in the mirror.

Originally posted by Qumulys
reply to post by rexusdiablos

 

I agree, the censorship is a bit silly. But, as an owner of a site giving us this platform, I think that gives them a right to try and block it. Yeah, a debate about it in the open would be fine, perhaps there is some truth behind what they say.

I didn't say there was any truth to the claims. I'm saying so long as ATS hides from and censors what should be a perfectly rational debate, many can only assume it to be guilty of the said accusations.

Originally posted by Qumulys
reply to post by rexusdiablos

 

But I think the only truths are in the 'fudgery' of how ATS is improving its google searches. Personally, I think that is very astute business sense. Without getting ATS a huge number of hits, the advertising revenue dies out and takes ATS with it.

That's bad for all of us dont you think?

Again, all of the above is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT AND CONFUSED considering I've already stated that such a debate would largely maximize traffic for a given window. Not only would the traffic be generated by opponents of the accusations, traffic would be generated by the proponents who ordinarily don't frequent ATS.

Furthermore, a successful debate would potentially win over the said proponents and thereby maximize traffic for a longer and more sustained window.

That's good for all of us don't you think?

Originally posted by rexusdiablos

If anything the debate would generate hype and INCREASE traffic. Everything else in your post reads like confused half-baked excuses.

I do apologize if everything sounded like confused half-baked excuses. It is the rant forum after all, so I guess I was ranting a bit there I don't feel like I am confused though, even if I sounded that way to you. ATS is a business, it has to run, and until we all have to pay a membership fee, I don't think we have much right to jump up and down about how the site is managed whether we like it or not.

Nobody is forcing us to post here, we do it of our own free will. Its easy, its convenient, its a service ATS is providing for you. Otherwise we can just open our own forum and speak our minds, but it would soon become apparent that without an audience its a hollow and costly (in some form or another) experience.

Thanks for your post though!

EDIT:
Just adding I agree with your above post, but I dont think one thread to address it would do much to traffic figures. Personally, I would address it. But its not up to us, we're not paying the bills! That's what I'm saying, and I think we should all accept that whatever ATS has done, has been a largely successful way to do business in creating a huge forum.

I agree with your 'Rant". I am not surprised that you have received some flack.

This site is singular on the internet, there is no other like it.

I read an introduction today that said we are the best, I would agree. However this is not the wild west and the inmates do not run the prison.

If ATS feels the need to prevent certain content, as you have said, it more than has that right. They must deal with issues we know nothing of. Legal issues. Financial issues, as you said.

reply to post by Qumulys


Ah, I see. The good ol' exhausted "if you don't like it, leave, start your own forum, there's no gun to your head" response.

You're flat out wrong. ATS encourages constructive feedback and acts upon it. It enriches the community as whole.

You're misrepresenting the ATS staff; it's my advice that you stick to speaking for yourself rather than misinforming other less informed or new members.

For someone whose argument is so traffic/revenue centric, you're completely overlooking the member attrition that the absence of such a debate is directly responsible for.

To say that ATS's attitude is "keep your concerns about the success of the community to yourself unless you're paying us" is erroneous, misinformed and above all, a very weak attitude to maintain.

I expect better and as a community we are better.

reply to post by rexusdiablos


So, because an argument of mine has been used before, it makes it less relevant? I'm not entirely sure why your attacking me so much?

I agree with you for the most part! I'd like to see this issue addressed, but I don't see were we get to point that gun to the owners heads over it? I think the stance of the "liar" post is rather silly, but I can't understand where all the instant hate came in? I'm trying to understand it, I really am. That's why I value your input!

I just saw a member in that thread (kdog) just about ready to jump ship and hang themselves over it. I felt that would be a great loss, kdog is one of the posters I always read! I think that some people are offended that they are being "used".

I thought being used should be blatantly obvious? But its the feedback your being payed back in for your threads. We pay nothing to be here, we get payed back in the form of 'free internet space and a free audience'.

We have some common ground I think!?

reply to post by Iamschist


Woo! Yeah, I think we're in a minority, but boy am I glad posted some support!

I was sweating bullets thinking I was alone in this battle!

As you say, legal and fiscal issues fall on the owners. To be successful as ATS is takes some gutsy, but clever business sense.

reply to post by Qumulys



I think you're missing a point somewhat here. NOBODY on this forum is denying the owners of this site the right to make money. I for one fully understand that everything I post on here is owned by the above network. I dont have a problem with that BUT, that consent comes at a price I charge ATS. That of transparency.

This IS a conspiracy site after all and that mean it attracts a certain demographic. As a marketer if they dont understand that basic tenet i dont think they should be in business and for the record i think they DO understand it. This site wouldn't have been as popular if they didnt.

Over the years I have seen this site choose quantity over quality, I suspect this might have something to do with advertising revenue but that is neither here nor there. The allegations made against the owners and NOT the members is something that needs to be discussed in an open forum not shuffled off into a dark alley where unscrupulous individuals sort out matters(bit dramatic but gets my point across).

As i suggested in the other thread why not invite representatives of the opposing site to make their case and back it up with evidence? Whats does ATS have to loose? It will generate more discussion draw in more new readership and generate more clicks and thus make them both more money. Its a win win.

Instead of fighting each other why not join and make it even greater, That IS of course unless ATS has something to hide. Ego's aside we know what ATS exists, to make money. The question is why do we keep posting on here?? To make a difference, to inform, to teach, to learn?

I will speak on my own behalf and say anybody that tells me i CANT do something is going about it the wrong way if they dont want me to look at something. THAT is a typical mindset of a conspiracy theorist, we want to know why we are not allowed to know. Curiosity is what drives us remember that the next time you want to censor something.

Originally posted by Qumulys

Originally posted by rexusdiablos

If anything the debate would generate hype and INCREASE traffic. Everything else in your post reads like confused half-baked excuses.

I do apologize if everything sounded like confused half-baked excuses. It is the rant forum after all, so I guess I was ranting a bit there

I don't feel like I am confused though, even if I sounded that way to you. ATS is a business, it has to run, and until we all have to pay a membership fee, I don't think we have much right to jump up and down about how the site is managed whether we like it or not.

Nobody is forcing us to post here, we do it of our own free will. Its easy, its convenient, its a service ATS is providing for you. Otherwise we can just open our own forum and speak our minds, but it would soon become apparent that without an audience its a hollow and costly (in some form or another) experience.

Thanks for your post though!

EDIT:
Just adding I agree with your above post, but I dont think one thread to address it would do much to traffic figures. Personally, I would address it. But its not up to us, we're not paying the bills! That's what I'm saying, and I think we should all accept that whatever ATS has done, has been a largely successful way to do business in creating a huge forum.

edit on 6-2-2012 by Qumulys because: (no reason given)

ATS is more than just a website, it's an online community. The posters and readers generate the revenue by visiting the site.

Saying that we have no say in how the site is run is true, but not a very good business model. If the community shrinks the revenue shrinks, and that should factor in to decisions from a purely business angle.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


It is interesting to me when someone with an avatar and a handle posts about transparency. Where is yours? Just as you want to have your opinions and conspiracy theories, but do not wish anyone to know who you really are or where you live, because it is your business and has nothing to do with your ideas.

ATS has the right to make decisions based on it's own business and not your ideas of what ATS should be, ie transparent.

The idea that ATS is some sort of conspiracy itself is so not new and not really interesting. Accept what it is and move on.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


I am against the censoring on a personal level (I've stated this a few times, I think it totally backfired on ats, and I'm disappointed though it ruined an otherwise interesting topic), but on a forum I don't own though, I have no entitlement to jump up and down over it yelling conspiracy!!! I've also stated I think it should be openly discussed. I just didn't understand the huge negativity over it?

We HAVE to be marketed! It sucks that quantity has wayyyyyyyy over-taken the quality, but its what it takes to keep alive and prosperous on an ever flippant internet.

We just have to accept that I think? My thoughts anyway Thanks for contributing!

Originally posted by Iamschist
I agree with your 'Rant". I am not surprised that you have received some flack.

This site is singular on the internet, there is no other like it.

I read an introduction today that said we are the best, I would agree. However this is not the wild west and the inmates do not run the prison.

If ATS feels the need to prevent certain content, as you have said, it more than has that right. They must deal with issues we know nothing of. Legal issues. Financial issues, as you said.

your dam right about one thing, this ISNT the wild west. because back then we had mob justice and if you screwed with the people you got hung simple as that. Too bad we dont practice more of that sort of justice in Washington.

Irregardless ATS relies on its member content to stay at the top, no member support no money, so before you forget who is paying the owners salary dont forget NOT to bite that hand that feeds you.

This site would be NOTHING without the quality posts that keep it semi credible but alas even those users are either being corralled or removed outright. The site is now a cesspool of trolls and lunatics. with the occasional gem of a thread that bubbles to the surface. It should be the other way around where content is king. But emotional threads geared to generate heated debate make more money for the site so they are encouraged to the point of letting obvious trolls post repeatedly just to generate pointless debate. I have seen it because i have been here long enough to see the change.

All i will say is if ATS goes down this road, one many business go down large profit that over a short time frame Vs small profit over a long time frame. they will burn themselves out. All things have a lifespan and i think ATS is entering into the final stages of its life span as a quality conspiracy site. It is now a mix facebook, wikipedia and youtube. It would seem the troglodytes have taken over.

But emotional threads geared to generate heated debate make more money for the site so they are encouraged to the point of letting obvious trolls post repeatedly just to generate pointless debate.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


I cannot speak to this. but I will anyway imho you underestimate the owners/leaders of this site. I think they allow the arguing because we want it, not because it generates more money for them. I do not see them as money grubbers. This site is a labor of love, you can see it in how they handle censoring. Imho they hate it themselves and only do it when forced. Do they make mistakes, I am sure it is possible but I am not in a position to know that.

Originally posted by Iamschist
reply to post by TiM3LoRd

 

It is interesting to me when someone with an avatar and a handle posts about transparency. Where is yours? Just as you want to have your opinions and conspiracy theories, but do not wish anyone to know who you really are or where you live, because it is your business and has nothing to do with your ideas.

ATS has the right to make decisions based on it's own business and not your ideas of what ATS should be, ie transparent.

The idea that ATS is some sort of conspiracy itself is so not new and not really interesting. Accept what it is and move on.

Comparing a person to a company is ludicrous at best. ATS has the right to do whatever the hell it wants. Who is debating that? Not me, all i said was the actions they take will have consequences and being that ATS is a conspiracy forum filled with people who think the sky is falling every week it might not be in its best interest(from a marketing POV) to scare the chickens so much.

As for my Transparency all I offer is my OPINION. if i ever release some awesome mind blowing whistle blower info i'll be sure to include my credentials. Until then my identity has no bearing on the points im making.

because it is your business and has nothing to do with your ideas.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


I believe I did say that. Hey I don't think we are all that far apart, I would not have liked living in the wild west, I am happy I do not have to read curse words or see graphic nudity or sexuality on here, that is censorship. It would really change the tone and feel of this site if that stuff was allowed, plus there are young people on here.

Some feel it should be no holds barred, I disagree. I know your argument is more about certain ideas and I am not going to speak to that as I do not know the specifics.

Originally posted by Iamschist

But emotional threads geared to generate heated debate make more money for the site so they are encouraged to the point of letting obvious trolls post repeatedly just to generate pointless debate.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd

 

I cannot speak to this. but I will anyway

imho you underestimate the owners/leaders of this site. I think they allow the arguing because we want it, not because it generates more money for them. I do not see them as money grubbers. This site is a labor of love, you can see it in how they handle censoring. Imho they hate it themselves and only do it when forced. Do they make mistakes, I am sure it is possible but I am not in a position to know that.

That may or may not be the case, speculating about things is fine but lets discuss facts here shall we.

what we DO know is that the more traffic to the site the more clicks they get and thus generate more money via Ad's. This is a fact.

we DO know that the majority of users on here are very easily swayed by emotion.

So emotionally charged threads that split the community in half like racism or religion or politics are used to generate heated discussion.

something i have noticed also is a rise in stupidity threads. Here is an exaggerated example of a thread title that might run 40 pages deep and have nothing to show for it. " There is no gravity we all live in a glass bottle" im not going to names names but there is a certain user who has a flare for creating nonsense threads like this with no proof and no real explanation of their theories, and the mods dont do a dam thing about it...why? because it generates debate with every tom dick and harry trying to educate this poor fool and proving him wrong.