It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Romney Family Baptizes Dead Father-In-Law

page: 1
5

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 10:48 AM
link   
Normally, I'm a person who doesn't pay much attention to the religious beliefs of a presidential candidate. As such, I usually find myself scratching my head when attempting to understand how so many voters will cast their vote based solely on this single factor. That is, up until now!

On Friday night I watched Bill Maher perform a "un-baptismal" ceremony for Ann Romney's deceased father, (Edward Davies, a staunch atheist) in response to the news that the Romney family had him baptized in the Mormon church 14 months after his death. Here's the clip; (some foul language included)



Now I'm not a huge fan of Bill Maher but I do find his show to be somewhat entertaining and from time to time, even informative, as was the case on Friday night. I had never even heard of someone being baptized after death, mush less that it is apparently a common practice among Mormons. Needless to say, I about fell off my couch.

This morning, I decided to check out the story to see if there was any truth to it and to my surprise, it seems legit. Here are some of the articles I found covering the posthumous baptismal ceremony of Edward Davies;

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Mitt's wife Ann converted to Mormonism when she was 17 years old, shortly after she had started dating her husband-to-be.
Because Mitt was in France doing his missionary work at the time, his father George Romney helped usher Ann into the religion and arranged for missionaries to teach her about the faith.

Edward Davies, shown here in his youth, was a staunch atheist and believed organized religions to be 'hogwash'
Shortly after Ann converted, her two brothers followed suit and converted as well.
Mr Davies died in 1992 and his wife died a year later. When she was on her deathbed, however, she asked her sons to help her convert to Mormonism, and she was baptised just before she died.
Unlike his wife, Mr Davies had no such last-minute requests for religious salvation.
He remained true to his convictions and considered organized religion 'drudgery' and 'hogwash'.
Ann's brother Roderick is quoted as saying that their father 'considered people who were religious to be weak in the knees'.
His well-known distaste for religion didn't stop members of his family from baptising him by proxy a year after he died, however.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk... 9qw


articles.businessinsider.com...

gawker.com...

Yes, the Romneys Converted Mitt’s Dead Atheist Father-in-Law to Mormonism
Gawker's substantial Mormon readership has come through for us: Two readers have sent us confirmation that Edward Davies, Mitt Romney's militantly atheist father-in-law, was indeed posthumously converted to Mormonism by his family, despite the fact that when he was alive he regarded all religions as "hogwash."


Then I found these reports that President Obama's mother was also posthumously baptized by the Mormon church and from what I can tell, done without the approval and/or consent of the Obama family. At least I can find no evidence that the Obamas had any knowledge of the event. Apparently, the Mormon church, or at least some of it's members, take it upon themselves to make this decision when "they see fit."

seattletimes.nwsource.com...

CHICAGO — Is President Obama's mother a Mormon now?

Not necessarily. But The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has confirmed Obama's late mother, Stanley Ann Dunham Soetoro, was posthumously baptized by a church member last year, soon after Obama clinched the Democratic nomination.

Though it's unclear whether the submission of her name was a prank or sincere gesture, church spokeswoman Kim Farah said baptizing someone unrelated violates church policy and the breach is under investigation.


www.huffingtonpost.com...


ABC News has confirmed reports that Mormons posthumously baptized President Obama's mother five months before the election.


Mormon Church spokeswoman Kim Farah said that "the offering of baptism to our deceased ancestors is a sacred practice to us and it is counter to Church policy for a Church member to submit names for baptism for persons to whom they are not related. The Church is looking into the circumstances of how this happened and does not yet have all the facts. However, this is a serious matter and we are treating it as such."


I guess this means that our personal liberties, especially the most fundamental of those liberties which is freedom of religion or lack thereof, ends at death. At least that's what I'm seeing from the Mormon religion. Apparently, they feel that it's incumbent upon them to make this decision for you once you've reached the point that you no longer have the ability to object. Now, how scary is that? It's scary enough just to accept that there are people who believe they have been tasked with saving the dead, much less that they actually believe it works.

No wonder the Christians are fearful of Mormons! It's because they will convert you, willing or not, as soon as it's their choice and theirs alone. And we wonder why people like Edward Davies had such a downtrodden view of organized religion.

Leave it to organized religion, more specifically the Mormons, to make Bill Maher look good.

edit on 6-2-2012 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 12:10 PM
link   
reply to post by Flatfish
 


and these irrational Phux are
being allowed to run the country?

DOOM
coming soon



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 12:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
reply to post by Flatfish
 


and these irrational Phux are
being allowed to run the country?

DOOM
coming soon


Yeah, I know. I'm beginning to wonder if I should amend my will to include specific stipulations that everyone, including our beloved Mormons, refrain from trampling on my right of religious freedom and leave me to rest in peace.

While I am a very spiritual person, I don't have a whole lot of use for organized religion as a whole, but I don't begrudge those who do either. On the other hand, when I contemplate the idea of being baptized after my death, possibly by someone I never even knew when I was alive, it makes my skin crawl. Needless to say, Romney won't be getting my vote.

I've read where some have accused them of doing this as a method of bolstering membership in their religion so as to portray a false sense of acceptance by the masses. I wonder if unions could learn anything from this? Maybe they should start unionizing dead people who hated unions while they were alive.



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 12:40 PM
link   
And this is the guy that is being touted as our next President. Someone that has no concern about anyone's wishes but his own.

I wouldn't be surprised, IF he actually does get into office, that he will baptize the whole country and declare us all subject to the laws of the Mormon Church. People are concerned about Sharia law. This guy is likely to bring back the Inquisition.



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 12:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by N3k9Ni
And this is the guy that is being touted as our next President. Someone that has no concern about anyone's wishes but his own.

I wouldn't be surprised, IF he actually does get into office, that he will baptize the whole country and declare us all subject to the laws of the Mormon Church. People are concerned about Sharia law. This guy is likely to bring back the Inquisition.


Mass Baptism huh, I never thought of that. I guess that would be his version of demonstrating to us what the Mormon definition of "Executive Authority" is.



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 02:53 PM
link   
creepy, but to each there own. its not my father in law.



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 06:21 PM
link   
reply to post by Flatfish
 


Reminds me of an old Lenny Bruce routine.




My favorite comment related to the myth of Jewish burial/tattoos comes from Lenny Bruce (1923-1965), a famous and famously irreverent Jewish comedian. Bruce used to do a comic routine about his mother’s reaction when he came home from the Navy with a tattoo on his arm. Put in the third person, it went like this:

Lenny’s mother screamed when she saw the tattoo and told her son, "Now you can't be buried in a Jewish cemetery!" Lenny replied: "Its OK, Ma. I'll be buried in a Jewish cemetery. They can amputate my arm and bury it in a Catholic cemetery. It can wave to my body."



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 07:09 PM
link   
reply to post by Flatfish
 


thats prolly not even what happened, mormons believe in getting baptised themselves for deceased people, im sure he didnt dig up his father in law and baptise him geesh



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 09:03 AM
link   

Originally posted by TheGuyFawkes
reply to post by Flatfish
 


thats prolly not even what happened, mormons believe in getting baptised themselves for deceased people, im sure he didnt dig up his father in law and baptise him geesh


I never said that they "dug him up" or anything like that, hell for all I know he may have been cremated. On the other hand, the reason I provided the news links supporting the factual basis for the story was to assure you that it did indeed, "prolly" happen.

While I am well aware that the story sounds like something right out of a nut house, nowadays that has become the norm for the right-wing conservative movement.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 06:33 PM
link   
reply to post by Flatfish
 


seems the jewish community is angry with the mormons. i saw a snipit on cnn. they are calling romney out. they want him to denounce this practice. I bet he ignores it, hoping it will just go away.
usnews.msnbc.msn.com...

I was hoping someone would make a thread on this. I suck at it, but I think it is relevant. especially to rick santorum.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 07:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by Wetpaint72
reply to post by Flatfish
 


seems the jewish community is angry with the mormons. i saw a snipit on cnn. they are calling romney out. they want him to denounce this practice. I bet he ignores it, hoping it will just go away.
usnews.msnbc.msn.com...

I was hoping someone would make a thread on this. I suck at it, but I think it is relevant. especially to rick santorum.


I remember reading that the Jews had protested this practice in the past and I agree that the subject is probably worthy of it's own thread. Here's a little bit of history on previous objections lodged by the Jewish community;

en.wikipedia.org...

Despite the guidelines, some members of the Church have submitted the names of Holocaust victims, and prominent Nazis, such as Heinrich Himmler, for vicarious baptism without adequate permission. In December 2002, independent researcher Helen Radkey published a report showing that, following a 1995 promise from the church to remove Jewish Nazi victims from its International Genealogical Index, the Church's database included the names of about 19,000 who had a 40 to 50 percent chance "to be Holocaust victims ... in Russia, Poland, France, and Austria."[42][43] Genealogist Bernard Kouchel conducted a search of the International Genealogical Index, and discovered that many well known Jews had been vicariously baptized, including Maimonides, Albert Einstein, and Irving Berlin, without family permission.



Jewish groups such as the Simon Wiesenthal Center spoke out against the vicarious baptism of Holocaust perpetrators and victims in the mid-1990s and again in the 2000s when they discovered the practice, which they consider insensitive to the living and the dead, was continuing.[45][46] The associate dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, Abraham Cooper, complained that infamous figures such as Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun appeared on LDS genealogical records: "Whether official or not, the fact remains that this is exactly the kind of activity that enraged and hurt, really, so many victims of the Holocaust and caused alarm in the Jewish community."[47][48]


If you ask me, the practice of baptizing dead people, (much less actually believing that you've converted an Atheist to Mormonism in the process) sounds pretty damn nutty.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:08 PM
link   
The baptism is offered.

It does not have to be accepted by the person on the other side.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:11 PM
link   
reply to post by Flatfish
 


i actually just saw the story ,today, of them calling out romney by name. depending on who is funding the "call out" it could be big. i was thinking as compared to the contraceptive/religious freedom b/s going on. This would trump that by leaps and bounds ...if the story takes root. a plus for santorum i imagine.




top topics



 
5

log in

join