Originally posted by RedParrotHead
I think the idea of this thread was missed by a lot of people.
The point of the thread wasn't missed by me. I just disagree.
Yes, humans are animals in the physical sense. Yes, humans have animal instincts ... some serve us well and others do not.
All of our behavior is based on those instincts. Breeding to survival to gaining social value..etc. Everything.
But I am not merely an animal, and neither are you.
How are we so special? Our touted moral/intelligence attributes? Our intelligence seems to be leading to our downfall and may not have the
survivability we thought. There is no moral absolutism, empathy isn't unique to our species, and frankly because morality is so subjective, I believe
it's root lies in our very nature as social creatures and is just another phenomena of our natural instincts. I believe thousands of years of
recorded history have shown our 'ethical sense' has never stood the 'actions speak louder than words' test, but we still do go on about it, don't
If we were then we would still be living in caves or trees.
Is it better to live in a cave or wipe out entire coastlines (without much forethought) to lay down our ant-like large population centers? I don't
see any other animal on earth that is destroying the environment and even capable of destroying the planet like we are? Is this what you mean when you
say we aren't merely animal? If so, then I agree with you. Are we really so much 'higher' or in reality did our mutated brains created an
out-of-control evolutionary monster? Are we the most dangerous 'invasive' species on the planet by our own definition of what an invasive species
is? I think we might be! Isn't it interesting that we put so much value on ourselves. So inclusive we are as a species.. just like ants building
their anthills, just trying to survive, without much of a care of what they do or how they do it. Perhaps it's natural for an intelligent predator,
an apex predator, to feel like it's 'higher' than everything else.
Collectively we can and have accomplish the seemingly impossible.
When did we ever collectively come together and do anything? ALL of us? Never. As groups, we do accomplish things, you are correct, but why? Once
again, driven by some natural instinct. Common enemy? Band together...etc..
Is it so far fetched an idea that we come up with a new way living once the slate has been essentially cleared?
The slate has been cleared many times, in a sense, by many humans that went off on their own or were all that were left, but there's never been a
utopian society. Why? We've done it many, many times before, back thousands of years ago, and we are still very much ruled by our natural instincts
of breeding/survival/social value... just like every other social animal
. It goes against our very nature. Even the peaceful societies always
had their leadership clashes, their revolutions...etc, Again, you have to ask yourself why, and the answer is pretty obvious when we taken off our
higher-than-animals blindfold. Sadly, as a collective, I'm not sure it's possible for us to do this...yet.
Are we so mentally weak that we will say "Well, that didn't work so let's do the same thing all over again and pass it on to our children"
It has nothing to do with being mentally weak. You're asking people to fight against their very natures, especially in a SHTF scenario where many
people are not going to have utopian thoughts (unless they are desperate for help).. most people are going to be in fight-or-flight mode. It's
Probably this mindset could only exist when nobody is afraid of dying from lack of resources...
That would never happen, in my
opinion... gaining/seeking social value is an integral part of life of human life, thus we create things of value (we literally just make them up in
many cases.. like credit) and people will seek what other humans tell them is valuable. Even if, we would still be fighting over who gets to lead or
who gets to own what.
I understand your frustration. I felt much the first way when I first came to my conclusions. But I believe we are what we are, a highly social
mammal, a predator; those survival instincts that rule us are always going to trump those utopian ideals, and this isn't going to change unless we
eventually evolve into a gentler breed or we somehow figure out a way to genetically alter ourselves. I know many people disagree with me about the
'higher animal' thing, it's an extremely unpopular opinion, and we love to put ourselves on a pedestal, and especially champion those
moral/intelligent attributes again and again, but I think a brief study of history shows that our actions have never spoken as loud as our words.
After that, take a long, thoughtful, objective, honest look at our species and tell me how we benefit the world around us?