Venezuela threatens Britain over Falklands as its president vows to side with Argentina

Originally posted by H1ght3chHippie
reply to post by michael1983l

 

The thing is .. Englands military strenght is and has always been insignificant.

The only people you dare to mess with are 3rd world countries.

Why don't you have a big mouth threatening the russians or Chinese ?

Oh right .. you couldn't even fend off the Germans in WW2 without the help of ten other countries.

Has always been insignificant, since when? Since 1066? Since it was an established Empire? Since the dawn of man? Be specific, because as a country, there is plenty of history to blast that first line straight out of the water....pardon the pun.

Of course and victorious wars against pretty much every European power as well conquests spanning from the Far East to America itself is testament to your second line! The only reason America was lost was thanks to Britain fighting France at the same time.

Why should we threaten the Russians or Chinese when they have done nothing to indicate that they are going to invade a British territory?

By 1940 to the end of 1941 it was basically Germany and Britain as Germany had taken most of Europe, so as the German army failed to invade Britain at any point, I would say we fended them off pretty well.

It's silly to make sweeping statements, much like I'm sure you say people shouldn't be oppressed but then support Argentinan occupation of the Falklands against the wishes of the inhabitants, wouldn't you agree?

The Falkland Islands are 1 of the 14 remaining British Overseas Territories. It's residents are British citizens the same as someone who lives in London. Of the appx. 3,400 Falkland Islanders about 98% are of British descent (or are from St. Helena & Ascension Island - another British Overseas Territory) with a few Chileans thrown in. They are BRITISH not Argentinian. Got it? BRITISH islands BRITISH people BRITISH laws BRITISH culture BRITISH EVERYTHING. They even have red telephone boxes and unarmed bobbies walking the beat. Much like Gibraltar the aggression of the annoying neighbors has led them to become so British that they are more British than the British themselves. The Spanish, like the Argies, just won't f--k off and let them be.

There are currently about 60 or so remaining "non-self governing territories" as defined by the United Nations. All of them are either British, French, Dutch, Danish, Spanish, Portuguese, or American. Practically none of them desire independence so just let them be. If they wanted to be independent or join some other country they would have done so a long time ago.

reply to post by ChrisF231


Ahhh but your addressing ATS here! There are people who are anti establishment for the sake of being, rather than for the sake of reason. These people are always against "The Man". Britain, both historically and at present, is part of the "Evil Empire", that evil colonial power that killed and destroyed, curse them! Curse them all! These people will not listen to reason, they will listen to Rage Against the Machine and then side with whichever side stands against Britain, could even be the Devil himself. They don't care what the people living on the Falklands want. How many who have posted have even mentioned about what those people want? None! They don't care! It says a lot about them and tells me that I'm glad people like them are not in power, I'd rather have the Devil I know what expect in the driving seat than these mad men!

As an American, who loves the U.K, I support you guys against Argentina. Argentina is obviously the aggressor here, and is stuck in the imperialist mindset that is outdated by a century. If Argentina attacks the Falklands, thats an act of war against a sovereign nation(U.K). If that happens, you guys have every right to beat them back, and then teach them a lesson on their soil. I hope America gets involved.

Originally posted by Tifozi

Originally posted by ThorsBrother
That would be like Romania joining in with Norway for possession of Shetland. Irrelevant and at best a futile gesture.

I still maintain this is just South American politicians trying to make themselves look like they are doing something instead of sorting their own economic mess out. Give the population a distraction, "Hey, look over there!".

I highly doubt the Venezuelan population would be in agreement if it did come to war, i doubt they want their armed forces eradicated too.

No offence to anyone from the nations mentioned above.

edit on 6/2/2012 by ThorsBrother because: Corrections

If that was the case, then why is the UK sending nuclear submarines, carriers and their own prince to the area?

You need 2 to dance the tango.

We do not currently have any operational carriers so that isn't possible. The Destroyer and Sub are going down there as scheduled Rotation as a deterant that has been present since 82. As for our Prince, I am not sure what damage he can do from his RESCUE helicopter.

Originally posted by BRITWARRIOR

To kick some Argie arse if need be

Nah i'm joking, we have been over this since page 1

They're replacing/reliving assets currently on duty there, every 6 months ships switch, its routine the only difference is the ship sent to relive the old 70s Type42 destroyers is one of the brand new Type45 destroyers which pretty much grounds any aircraft in the Argentine air force

edit on 7-2-2012 by BRITWARRIOR because: (no reason given)

Yes, I know that is routine.

But the thing is, the UK isn't all that healthy at the moment, nor wealthy. You guys are experiencing one of the roughest moments in your history, and the only reason people seem unable to notice it, is because you endured so much crap in the past (ww2 bombings).

A country with an unemployment rate as high as the UK's, with a near future so fragile, can't really afford to be playing around the world with their ships and troops. If you consider the distance from homeland, Argentina is a "bit" of a stretch, even without considering logistics. Even the "all-mighty" US is retreating at the moment from that attitude.

So, after considering that this movements are expensive and don't really pay back that much, why is the UK sending those ships there?

They wouldn't be there unless there was a purpose. Wether that purpose has turned into a routine or not.

Thanks for the pleasant reply by the way, nice change of air from members in these types of discussions.

reply to post by michael1983l

We do not currently have any operational carriers so that isn't possible.

I didn't mention aircraft carriers. If I wanted to mention aircraft carriers, I would say... "aircraft carriers".

The Destroyer and Sub are going down there as scheduled Rotation as a deterant that has been present since 82.

Already answered that in my earlier post.

As for our Prince, I am not sure what damage he can do from his RESCUE helicopter.

More damage than he would do if he actually fired any weapon. It's called diplomacy. Sending one of your most precious characters in the country with a military force, to a place that is in constant dispute, is either very intentional, or just plain stupid.

I'm not saying this because it bothers me. I couldn't care less where princes and princesses go for a trip.

I'm referring this fact because it bothers them.

Originally posted by SecretFace
reply to post by ChrisF231

 

Ahhh but your addressing ATS here! There are people who are anti establishment for the sake of being, rather than for the sake of reason. These people are always against "The Man". Britain, both historically and at present, is part of the "Evil Empire", that evil colonial power that killed and destroyed, curse them! Curse them all! These people will not listen to reason, they will listen to Rage Against the Machine and then side with whichever side stands against Britain, could even be the Devil himself. They don't care what the people living on the Falklands want. How many who have posted have even mentioned about what those people want? None! They don't care! It says a lot about them and tells me that I'm glad people like them are not in power, I'd rather have the Devil I know what expect in the driving seat than these mad men!

edit on 7-2-2012 by SecretFace because: (no reason given)

Couldn't of put it better myself

Not one Argentine could give any proof facts NADA, just wild claims accusations & conspiracy's, they will just rant on how we killed the Argentinian people living there before they was even a nation, even then we have archaeological proof to disprove there lies, with many other nations corroborative history records of the islands, i mean really... what's it going to take? the loss of more good men defending the peoples right in the Falklands?

Its just so sad, really is sad and pathetic when there's not even a legal case, these are the guys who shout from the roof tops religiously the British are evil the west is evil, as the OP said, funny how all there dictators & imbeciles dictators go around patting each other on the backs, Ahmadinejad, Chavez, i thought id have more but realised quite a few are 6ft under now

This thread is ridiculous. Mods need to close it and remove the garbage. This might give some of you chance to brush up on your history before rejoining the conversation

Originally posted by Tifozi
So, after considering that this movements are expensive and don't really pay back that much, why is the UK sending those ships there?

Without having to consider the fact that we are currently drilling for oil there, it is a British territory populated by British citizens and this makes it more than worth the 0.5% of our defence budget allocated to protect it.

Hello guys!
I never post here, but i think its time. Im from Argentina, Im 31 years old. I live in Buenos Aires, now im on vacation 500km away at a beach town. Ive got my own bussines with 50 employes. I also sell US products, im an oficcial retailer of Hawaiian Tropic US here in Argentina. So I have a good life.
For the last 14 years i been studie a lot of history and politics from all the world. I went to university and i graduated from international bussines school...
To start talking about Malvinas, lets do some history

1806 - First UK invation of Argentina. They loose, so they get back to UK.
1807 -Second UK invation of Argentina. After invaded Monte Video, Uruguay, yhey also try to invade Argentina again. And they loose again.
These two invasions were under the napolionic wars beetwen England and France.
(you think the english asked the argentinean ppl if they want to be invaded???? hehehe... my god...

1824 - England reconized the sobering of Argentina and signed the Monroe doctrin from USA saying they not would invaded the country anymore...

1832 - The britain PM Lord Palmeston order the invation of the island. Captain Pinedo was in charge of the island with only one ship and a few mens...

1833 - UK invaded the islands. Pinedo with their mens surrender under the power of the britain ships.

Are you still thinking that those island were empty?
Are you sure Argentina is the agressor?

1982 - Argetina was under a dictatorial goverment, like all south american countries at that time. All these goverment were powered by the CFR of the USA. This goverment kill at least 30.000 ppl. all university students, not guerrilla or something like that...
Videla was our president, a drunk man who only respond to the council of foreing relationships... not the ppl...
Cause the regime was going down, they start a war against UK for the islands. Nobody here wanted to go to war against UK , everybody here knows that the UK army is one of the biggest arround the world.

2003 - Argentina economy start growing above 8% after the 2001 default. Since that year our economy grows over a 5% a year.
An example: in 1999 before the crisis Argentina sold 90.000 cars per year. From 2010 Argentina is selling more than a millon year.
All latin America it's growing at that level, less Chile, that got a lot of comerce with the USA so they are falling like USA...

2012 - 30 years conmemorating the war. Argentina want the islands back but in a diplomatic way (Monroe doctrin, the island are on our national sea, the depth of the waters make the islands parth of Argentina, no mather they are more than 200 miles away...) but the UK send ships and subs.... and u still thinking we are the agresor???
come on!!!

Facts:
The island was occupied at 1833 when the UK invaded them
The UK try to invaded the continent too in two times...
3000 ppl live at those island. The half of that ppl. are latin americans who work for the UK ships. The half of the other half are military personal. So you ve got only 700 ppl who you can call kelpers, and they live there cause they are poor ppl. from other parts of the UK that goes there cause the British empire gave them a lot of money to stay there.

So, you want to nuke a country cause 700 ppl wants to live with out a job?

hehehehe....

Im sure you never been out of your country.... Last july i went to london on vacations for a month. I watched the riots there, i was on brick lane and the riots were a few blocks away... I think that there is the answer to all this... UK is about to default like all Europe and the USA.... And they need to keep the ppl entretained with all these wars.... We are gorwing like never mate, we dont want war... we dont need it. Our country is one of the 5 biggest countries in the world. We dont need those island. But stop saying that they belong to the UK , cause that is a lie...
So if you ask me, take the island and put them in your ass...

I leave you cause it's beach time and ive got my BMW X3 and my Yamaha Banshee waiting for me at my front yard.

Cheers mate!

reply to post by gabrielxxx


What a load of bull #, for a start the British have been around there since the late 1500s

In 1594, they were visited by English commander Richard Hawkins, who, combining his own name with that of Queen Elizabeth I, the "Virgin Queen", gave the islands the name of "Hawkins' Maidenland."

Were your history books written by your Military Junta?

www.falklands.info...

Here's a good timeline:

1592 - First confirmed sighting of the Islands by English navigator John Davis of Desire

and so forth

1594 English navigator Richard Hawkins of Dainty maps the northern coastline and names the Islands 'Hawkins Maydenlande' after himself and Queen Elizabeth
1598 Dutch navigator Sebald van Weerdt of Geloof names the Jason Islands 'The Sebaldines'
Seventeenth Century
1675 London merchant Anthony de la Roche sights South Georgia
1684 British explorers William Dampier, John Cook and Ambrose Cowley of Bachelor's Delight sight the Islands
1690 First landing at Bold Cove, Port Howard by British captain John Strong of Welfare whilst sailing to Chile who names Falkland Sound after Lord Falkland, Treasurer to the Navy;
Captain Strong discovers a large fox-like animal which is named the warrah
1696 British navigator William Dampier returns and circumnavigates the Islands

Hope this pacifies some of the British haters.

Originally posted by Soshh

Originally posted by Tifozi
So, after considering that this movements are expensive and don't really pay back that much, why is the UK sending those ships there?

Without having to consider the fact that we are currently drilling for oil there, it is a British territory populated by British citizens and this makes it more than worth the 0.5% of our defence budget allocated to protect it.

edit on 7/2/12 by Soshh because: (no reason given)

The UK isn't the only country with energy contracts in South America, but as far as I know, it's the only one sending destroyers and nuclear submarines to a territory that is sensitive to that sort of thing.

I'm not saying that the UK doesn't have the right to be there, or that they are making an offensive move. I just believe it's utterly unnecessary. And if people are going to argue that if the UK retreats it's military presence from the Falklands, then problems will start to arise.... then maybe people should start to consider why those issues even exist. Or are we forgetting we are talking about a territory that is across the Atlantic?

There were several countries, especially in Europe, that were forced to give their colonies away, mainly during the 70 and 80's. Others gave them up freely, with independence declarations and the sorts. Why is the UK allowed to occupy an external territory and not expect opposition from the countries who consider those territories their own? It's not the first time it has happened, and it won't be the last. Apparently the UK is just too stubborn to understand what the real issue is. And it's not because History hasn't made the effort to teach that lesson, UK itself was a victim of such teachings, from the US example to Hong Kong.

Why isn't a solution similar to Hong Kong being pursued?

The only word that comes to mind is hypocrisy, when you see all sorts of conflicts flaming up around the world due to the same kind of disputes, and yet, everyone puts their shoulders up and say "meh" when it comes to western countries messing things up.

And 0,5% looks really tiny. But you should use more often the real numbers that are represented by the 0,5%.

I doubt they are paying 60 bucks of gas and some lunches as their only expense by going there.

one last thing....
Argentina is never going to attack the islands again...
My uncle is Comodoro Ureta, biggest war hero from Malvinas. He was the one who shot the missiles agianst HSM Invicible and one of two who came back from that suicidal mission. He was the first to get up when the navy ask to all the pilots who want to go in tis suicidal mission. So I know that Argentina don't have the strenght to sink a fisher ship from UK... So imagine a war...
I think that our goverment its try to know what China will do if any country try to attack us. From 2005 Argentina it's making a lot of bussines with China. We sell soybeam to them, the same soybeam we sell to the USA, with the different that the States buy us that soybeam to feed animals and china to feed their own ppl... hehehe...

I've got a lot of friends from the States and a lot of friends from England, and I know they dont have nothing to do with the decissions that they goverment take... like me here... if you ask to any argentiean if they want go to war for the islands they will say NO.
Maybe we should stop watching TV and start asking to real ppl what is happening.... you will find that we are all the same and the TV lies everywhere!
Here none is talking about the islands, only two channels on TV, and we all know who are the owners of those channels... 20% of one and more from the other are property of Lehman Brothers....

I hope to be back in england for olimpics in july, so try not to start a war! hehehe!

reply to post by michael1983l


I took all from wikipedia mate...
Nothing to say about the two invasions of the continent?

The first ones to settle on the islands were the Spanish....

reply to post by gabrielxxx


You do realise that wikipedia can be written by anyone right?

And are you saying that the Spanish have a higher right to claim than Argentia, do you know what I think you might be right.

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by gabrielxxx

 

You do realise that wikipedia can be written by anyone right?

Yes. And it can also be corrected by anyone too.

Originally posted by Tifozi

Originally posted by BRITWARRIOR

To kick some Argie arse if need be

Nah i'm joking, we have been over this since page 1

They're replacing/reliving assets currently on duty there, every 6 months ships switch, its routine the only difference is the ship sent to relive the old 70s Type42 destroyers is one of the brand new Type45 destroyers which pretty much grounds any aircraft in the Argentine air force

edit on 7-2-2012 by BRITWARRIOR because: (no reason given)

Yes, I know that is routine.

But the thing is, the UK isn't all that healthy at the moment, nor wealthy. You guys are experiencing one of the roughest moments in your history, and the only reason people seem unable to notice it, is because you endured so much crap in the past (ww2 bombings).

A country with an unemployment rate as high as the UK's, with a near future so fragile, can't really afford to be playing around the world with their ships and troops. If you consider the distance from homeland, Argentina is a "bit" of a stretch, even without considering logistics. Even the "all-mighty" US is retreating at the moment from that attitude.

So, after considering that this movements are expensive and don't really pay back that much, why is the UK sending those ships there?

They wouldn't be there unless there was a purpose. Wether that purpose has turned into a routine or not.

Thanks for the pleasant reply by the way, nice change of air from members in these types of discussions.

Were doing a fair bit better then most, certainly the EU/US, healthy? who is healthy in this "global" recession right now?

Of course we had every major city levelled in WWII, nothing hopefully will ever be as bad as that, times are hard but after that nothings really that bad any more lol, and were all in this together its a global problem not a UK one, sure some country's worst then others, but we're certainly not one of those, nore in nearly as much of the brown stuff as a large percentage of the global economy's, we are one of the very few still with a triple AAA Credit rating right?

So, after considering that this movements are expensive and don't really pay back that much, why is the UK sending those ships there?

Its at no extra cost to protect the people in the Falklands its routeen based on the MOD's budget and has been for many years, cuts have been made elsewhere to adjust in these economically hard times, its only at a cost when we have to send another task force down there and start firing off the rounds at invaders, as i said, its a global recession, so what makes you think Argentina has war funds but not the UK? they're 100x worst of, not to mention they'd need to buy/make a hell of ALOT of obsolete hardware to even consider an attack & overwhelm our forces, the new Type45s are world class, with state of the art weapons systems on-board, more then enough fire power for there 40s-60s hardware,

They'd need to spam out hundreds of amphibious assault crafts while Astute & Trafalgar class nuclear subs stalk, because lets face it, they would certainly not be getting anything on the island by air that's for sure, at least not in numbers that would be considered an effective fighting force, i wish they would just shut up tbh and respect the wishes of the Falklands islanders to remain British, simple

Its international law... they have every right to determine there own future, if it costs a couple of billion and more blood to make sure they have that wish so then so be it, i have no doubt the public will back it whole heartedly

reply to post by michael1983l


yes, i know it. But if I put info from an Argentinean site or something like that i will have this kind of answer: "the juntas wrote your book?" Thats why i used wikipedia.
And let me tell you that here everyone hates the "juntas" i allready told you that they killed a lot of university students. And if something that they didn't do, was write books, hehehe!
I got a lot of history books at home. From differents writers, i love to have a cognitive conclusion of the events, so i read a lot of books from a same episode but writen but differents guys with different thinks...
How many books have you read about this michael?