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Paul camp cries fraud over Nevada Caucus results

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posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 10:34 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 




posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by eXia7
 



Can you show me proof of it NOT happening? You know with the whole secret ballot counting and what not? Do you have logs of these secret counts?


No, I can not prove a negative...sorry.

I am not the one making a claim here...Ron Paul supporters are claiming fraud...I'm just asking for the proof of this claim.

Do you understand that it isn't possible for one to show proof of something not happening? Because not being able to prove something didn't happen doesn't mean that it is in fact happening.


I don't think you understand what you just said.

But my question is, why so secret bro? Why do they need to go hide off in some cave and count ballots? Do you think they have some delightful candies they don't want to share with everybody else..?



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 10:41 AM
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I have brought this up in a few other threads claiming voter fraud but have yet to really receive any kind of response. In fact the threads completely died after I posted. Just because Ron Paul has a strong presence on the internet doesn't mean it translates into the real world. There are many people on this site alone who are Ron Paul supporters, but are not from the US. We must also remember that the internet is still mainly the playground of the young. This means that Paul's strong base will most likely be composed of the youth vote. If you check the demographic data Paul's supporters are decidedly in the 18-24 age range. By contrast Romney pulls pretty much equally from everywhere, except the 18-24 demographic where he has almost no support. Now if we check the numbers of from Nevada we find that only 8% of the voters were from the 17-29 age range.

This is the problem every politician whose base is the youth vote faces. They don't vote. Every election the candidates spend tons of money on trying to convince the youth to vote and every time it fails. If a politician could actually get their younger voters out voting it would be a complete game changer, but it looks like not even Ron Paul is capable of doing that. There is no evidence of voter fraud. There is however evidence of Ron Paul's campaign relying on a demographic that has a long history of being apathetic when it comes to voting.


+2 more 
posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


I hate the way you generalize everyone. It really is offensive. Your sitting here saying "Paul supporters are all crying fraud blah blah blah" when in fact not ALL are claiming fraud. I have actually been one supporter who in various threads have stated repeatedly that I would not be so quick to claim fraud. We should wait and see what reports come out.

I am still not claiming fraud, but I have to admit something sure does seem fishy. There are reports of actual reporters who have a history of covering events being removed and kicked out and refused the opportunity to witness the process. That is suspicious. Voters being turned away. That is suspicious. Observers being denied access because they voted earlier in the day, when that has not happened before, is suspicious. Anything being done behind closed doors with no oversight is suspicious.

As with any case of any type, evidence is not always readily available. It takes time to investigate and gather evidence. I am not crying fraud, but there are enough red flags to suggest this should be looked at closely. Let us remove Ron Paul from this situation completely. Are you suggesting that elections should have no oversight? That ballots should be allowed to be counted in private and have the results reported to the public?

This is really the issue here, not Ron Paul, and we can be talking about the 2068 election for all I care. At no point in time should ballots be counted in private. This process should be open to the public freely.



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by Xcalibur254
I have brought this up in a few other threads claiming voter fraud but have yet to really receive any kind of response. In fact the threads completely died after I posted. Just because Ron Paul has a strong presence on the internet doesn't mean it translates into the real world. There are many people on this site alone who are Ron Paul supporters, but are not from the US. We must also remember that the internet is still mainly the playground of the young. This means that Paul's strong base will most likely be composed of the youth vote. If you check the demographic data Paul's supporters are decidedly in the 18-24 age range. By contrast Romney pulls pretty much equally from everywhere, except the 18-24 demographic where he has almost no support. Now if we check the numbers of from Nevada we find that only 8% of the voters were from the 17-29 age range.

This is the problem every politician whose base is the youth vote faces. They don't vote. Every election the candidates spend tons of money on trying to convince the youth to vote and every time it fails. If a politician could actually get their younger voters out voting it would be a complete game changer, but it looks like not even Ron Paul is capable of doing that. There is no evidence of voter fraud. There is however evidence of Ron Paul's campaign relying on a demographic that has a long history of being apathetic when it comes to voting.


Ummm correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the youth vote one of the reasons accredited to Obama's election victory?



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 11:08 AM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 


I'm not saying all Ron Paul supporters...I don't believe I have ever said that...I don't know ALL Ron Paul supporters.

But the fact is that the only ones I see crying about voter fraud/election fraud/grand conspiracy are Ron Paul supporters. I'm not seeing Newt Gingrich voters crying on how he was robbed.

When the results match every poll out there and every entrance/exit poll out there....I don't see any reason to think something seems fishy.

If Ron Paul was leading in the polls at 50% and he ended up getting 20%...sure...I would say something is off...but that isn't the case.



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 11:11 AM
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reply to post by Xcalibur254
 


The major difference that you're not taking into account, is that for the first time ever in this nation's history, the 18-26 age group is energized, and keenly interested in both understanding and engaging in politics, economics, and the general affairs of the state.

There is no precedent for this kind of generational shift. So predictions based on old models are inadequate. I personally think that the youth WILL vote this season and in record numbers. We've already seen massive turnouts at previous caucuses. The only question is whether their votes will be counted fairly.



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 



Ummm correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the youth vote one of the reasons accredited to Obama's election victory?


Not really...Obama did dominate the youth vote...but he didn't rely on the youth vote. He also won the 30-44 age group and the 45-65 age group. He only lost the 65+ age group.

www.ropercenter.uconn.edu...



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by Son of Will
reply to post by Xcalibur254
 


The major difference that you're not taking into account, is that for the first time ever in this nation's history, the 18-26 age group is energized, and keenly interested in both understanding and engaging in politics, economics, and the general affairs of the state.

There is no precedent for this kind of generational shift. So predictions based on old models are inadequate. I personally think that the youth WILL vote this season and in record numbers. We've already seen massive turnouts at previous caucuses. The only question is whether their votes will be counted fairly.


This is just simply not true.

Please show me any numbers that prove that the youth is turning out in record numbers.

From the numbers I see, the youth vote has been the smallest group in each state so far.



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 11:18 AM
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Ron Paul and his fans are TERRIBLE LOSERS!

Can't you lose with grace??? Instead of crying cheat at EVERY turn?



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by MrWendal
 


I'm not saying all Ron Paul supporters...I don't believe I have ever said that...I don't know ALL Ron Paul supporters.


Yeah you did generalize all Paul supporters. The post was removed, but you did.


But the fact is that the only ones I see crying about voter fraud/election fraud/grand conspiracy are Ron Paul supporters. I'm not seeing Newt Gingrich voters crying on how he was robbed.


What do you think is happening in Florida? It is Gingrich who is calling for delegates to be split up instead of a "winner take all" scenario. Besides that, you wont find the Gingrich camp claiming fraud when they are the ones committing fraud. There is a reason that the Virgina Attorney General is now investigating Newt Gingrich for petition ballot fraud.



When the results match every poll out there and every entrance/exit poll out there....I don't see any reason to think something seems fishy.


Outkast..come on man. Polls are not voters. Not every single poll will reach every single voter. If you can not understand how counting ballots in secret is a fishy practice, than I am literally speechless. Again, let us forget about Ron Paul. Are you saying that counting ballots in secret is a good thing?


If Ron Paul was leading in the polls at 50% and he ended up getting 20%...sure...I would say something is off...but that isn't the case.


But the evidence already exist that Ron Paul's polling numbers are marginalized. This was proven in 2008. How many polls did we see that had Paul with 2% and he would get much higher? Nevada in 2008 was one of those States, do I really have to dig up the old polling numbers for you? I find it very baffling how you would even attempt to use such a weak argument. We know that polling numbers are manipulated. So if the vote count matches what we know to be manipulated numbers anyway, that means the vote was not manipulated? I don't get that logic.


+5 more 
posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 11:27 AM
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When counted out loud in public Ron wins by a landslide.

When counted behind closed doors he loses terribly.....



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by MrWendal
 



Ummm correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the youth vote one of the reasons accredited to Obama's election victory?


Not really...Obama did dominate the youth vote...but he didn't rely on the youth vote. He also won the 30-44 age group and the 45-65 age group. He only lost the 65+ age group.

www.ropercenter.uconn.edu...


Fair enough. Are you able to find a demographic for Ron Paul that we can use in a comparison? I was only able to find this one, but it's a mess and I can't really make a fair comparison using it.

Demographic data



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 11:28 AM
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i would like to see a vote that has a receipt attached w/ a unique number.
then after the votes have been tallied for each precinct all votes would be published on the web w/ the unique number as to keep the vote privat but still enable to make it public - so every voter may verify their vote.
this would end the hocus-pocus of the billionaire club.


ex: 123987654 - cast votes for - xxx/yyy/zzz - the holder of the number would be able to check for decrepenies at the publication site.
edit on 6-2-2012 by jibajaba because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 


While youth voter turnout was higher than most years last year you were still only getting about 50% of the youth vote. In contrast the older demographics had about 70% vote. It was enough to sway a close race but not enough to give Ron Paul the numbers he needs to start winning. Experts are already predicting that we're going to see fewer voters this year and that fewer youth voters will be a major cause of this. Regardless Ron Paul is not losing because of voter fraud. He's losing because his core demographic is not voting. Let's look at the numbers. There are around 300,000 - 400,000 registered Republicans in Nevada. Of these, 90,000 are from the 18 - 34 demographic. There were approximately 35,000 people who voted in Nevada. That means that out of the 90,000 people who could be considered the youth vote, only 2,800 voted. If your campaign is riding on the youth vote, those are not the kinds of numbers you want to see.



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by Xcalibur254
 


Although I can certainly agree with your assessment, do you have a source for the numbers?



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 11:34 AM
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Regardless of youth vote or not. Ron has people's attention in these little caucus communities. I won't say fraud but something doesn't sit well.


***** Still haven't met a Romney supporter just people who say "he will win" *****



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 


Here's the results of a poll from the Daily Paul. I can't guarantee its how accurate it is though. I did however run across a few articles discussing how Paul tends to draw from the youth and Independent demographics.

Demographics of Ron Paul Supporters



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 


The percentage of 8% comes from CNN's exit poll. The number of voters who participated in the caucus is estimated because the only numbers I could find were how many votes had been counted and what percentage of votes had been counted. The demographics in regards to the Nevada Republican party come from Nevada's Secretary of State website. Although I was off in one of my numbers. The total number of registered voters in Nevada is 470,000. However, there are 400,000 active voters in Nevada, but only 60,000 active youth voters.



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by Screwed
 


What?

They're not allowed to have an opinion on Ron Paul? Especially if it's an unpopular opinion?

This isn't the Ron Paul campaign website.

This is ABOVETOPSECRET.

Deal with it.



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