Originally posted by NuminousCosmos
I live in Washington state...which is at the top of this list. I got $8.00 back from Uncle Sam. I make less than $30,000 a year in taxable income. My next door neighbor owns a chain of health/fitness centers. He just bought a new car and a boat.

WTF?

Why are you puzzled? I also live in Washington, where there is no state income tax and where property taxes are low (not that anyone here understands that.) So you get $8.00 back. What did you pay in and what did you actually pay? Is the $30,000 your AGI (Adjusted Gross Income)? So after the AGI you got a standard deduction, right? And then you got a personal exemption, right? So the actual amount you paid taxes on is far less than $30,000. So do the math for us. Figure out the percentage you paid in taxes based on your gross income.

I'm guessing maybe 3-4%.

Now, I'm guessing your next door neighbor (Your next door neighbor! So you like live in similar housing, right? It's not like you live in the 'hood and he lives in a luxurious mansion.) has worked pretty hard for a number of years and INVESTED in his chain of stores while employing people to work in them, thus creating jobs and expanding the economy and paying a whole boatload more taxes than you do. He wasn't satisfied with just working for $30K a year, so he got a job, got a better job, and now he owns the job. So he put a ton of his own money into this chain of stores, maybe leveraged himself, and now, after a lot of work, he gets to buy a car and a boat. THAT'S KIND OF THE IDEA! If you work both hard and smart and have a goal to NOT work for The Man any longer, you can succeed and "pursue happiness" (on Puget Sound) or whatever you want to do.

Look: You can work for McDonalds or you can own a McDonalds. 50% of the franchisees started out just working for McDonalds. They worked themselves up. You could, too, if you wanted, but don't blame someone for having the energy and brains to be successful. You can emulate them or envy them: Your choice, but take some personal responsibility here for what happens to you.

You can emulate them or envy them: Your choice, but take some personal responsibility here for what happens to you

The system is almost entirely rigged against most people, but all you can do is blame the victims. Nice.

The unspoken problem is that our corporate society has a minimum living cost of about $20,000 a year. Anyone who makes less than that is already in the hole, and cannot be expected to pay taxes on top of high living expenses.

Originally posted by v1rtu0s0

Originally posted by Rockpuck

I have no sympathy for the poor

Is that you, Mitt?

Aw, thanks for taking words out of context. I love displays of inept ignorance.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
The rich pay low taxes because they are the business owners and producers.

Let me clue you in on something, you can't tax the rich.

Crap rolls down hill, and the working man is at the bottom.

Any tax on business will immediately be passed through in the form of higher prices.

Any tax on investors will immediately be passed on to the back of working people in the form of fewer PRODUCTIVE jobs. The State will simply spend the money on cronyism or adding more useless bureaucrats to its payrolls.

Fewer productive jobs means less people making washing machines and more people issuing parking tickets. Parking tickets do not improve people's lives. The washing machine on the other hand does.

edit on 5-2-2012 by mnemeth1 because: (no reason given)

I usually find great insight into your responses and your science stuff is a great read, but...



Sorta nicely sums it up.

Derek

I have had boom and bust times in my life -- the thing I learned -- when I was making wages it was really hard work - when I have made salary -- not so hard work. People I know who are really really coupon clipping rich -- even less work. I don't feel sorrow for the rich. I empathize with the poor.

The whole idea that if we tax the rich it will be passed to the middle class is bogus -- if we don't tax them fairly -- the slack is taken up by the middle class, also nobody doesn't exercise a profit making venture because of the taxes they have to pay. If we don't level the playing field the wealth will stick at the top -- the rest of the population will be fighting over fewer and fewer dollars and the whole country will just be circling the drain. I have heard every right wing argument against taxes -- facts prove them wrong.