reply to post by WWu777
Who ever said, that I or anyone else on the "conspiracy" side, have ever claimed to be a good guy?
The thing that I, and I think a lot of others are pointing out ... is that the NWO is a pack of lies. They are liars, who lie their way through ...
from GW. Bush the older, to his son, to Obama. From the United States, to Europe and China. Each and everyone of them, is lying ... and as such,
their agenda, cannot be anything but something that no one would accept ... unless lied to.
Applying Common Sense to NWO Conspiracy Theories, page 1
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Topic started on 5-2-2012 @ 01:00 PM by WWu777
Much of all this info regarding conspiracies is ambiguous. One can only speculate regarding the agenda behind conspiracies because it's all a secret
of course. However, let's try to apply some common sense here.
All this conspiracy stuff is too black and white, almost like a religion. The elite can't be all "evil forces of darkness" vs. us the "innocent good guys". That is too black and white, with an "us vs. them" mentality, and more like what religions preach. In reality, the world is very complex and is not that black and white. There must be some good people among the elite. They can't all be "the bad guys" like characters in some movie, can they? People in real life are not all good or all bad (like in the movies); they are a mixture of the two.
It's also hard to believe that so many people could be in on something and agree to it. In reality, it's very hard to get a lot of people to all agree without dissent to being in on the same agenda, especially people in power and high places since these types are used to getting their way, not being told what to do. The elite have very big egos, so imagine how much harder it would be to get them to all agree on some secret agenda.
Humans tend to fight and disagree, especially since they are governed by an innate moral conscience which is both in their DNA and in the "morphic resonance" energy field (coined by Rupert Sheldrake) that all living things share. It's too far fetched to believe that these "shadow elite" are all some collective hive mind that is plotting sinister things against the world, as though they were all "minions of the dark side of the Force".
Nevertheless, conspiracies do exist. The only question is: What kind of conspiracies exist? Are we talking about a secret Illuminati NWO one world government agenda? Or just corrupt politicians seeking power and wealth? Is there a fantastic conspiracy involving UFO's, Aliens and secret technology? Or just politicians with mundane dirty secrets involving money laundering scams, under the table deals, arms deals, sex scandals, and other mundane types of unethical behavior, lies and cover ups?
Also, is every country in on this? Or just the US elite? It's too far fetched to believe that the governments of all 200 countries of the world would all agree to be in on something.
All we know for sure are:
- The media and government often lie and fabricate things.
- There is definitely a shadow government that works outside of the democratic process and public scrutiny, to implement big changes that the elite think tanks want that would take too long if the public were involved. The Iran Contra Scandal revealed that shadow governments do exist. This shadow government is involved in a lot of sinister operations, but for what purpose, we don't know.
- The US military industrial complex and elite class, or whoever runs the USA (it's certainly not the common people), are definitely war mongerers who have a history and pattern of starting ridiculous unnecessary wars that don't make sense. (e.g. Vietnam, Iraq, etc.)They do not tell the public the truth about why they start them, but only give BS copout excuses that don't add up. So we can only speculate and guess on their true motives. All we know for sure is that they love getting involved with wars for some reason. Whatever their true reasons are, they are likely to be very disturbing.
- Too many important figures who would have changed the world for the better had they lived, have been murdered by too many lone nut cases (e.g. JFK, RFK, MLK, John Lennon). Had JFK and RFK lived, the Vietnam War would probably have never happened, millions of lives would have been saved, people would trust their government more, and the CIA/Federal Reserve/Military Industrial Complex (which Eisenhower warned about) may not have hijacked the USA as it has today. So two lone nuts changed the tide of world history for the worse? Yeah right.
Also, if Ralph Nader didn't cost Al Gore the election in 2000, the War on Terror may have never happened, since Al Gore is not a war monger type. (assuming of course, that the election was real and that Gore really wanted to win)
- The formation of the European Union and attempt to create a North American Union as well, are indicators of a NWO plan, since the formation of these unions would be a logical step they would take in order to consolidate power into an eventual one world government.
However, the key unanswered questions are:
- What is the true agenda of the elite? Are they really seeking to establish a NWO and one world government and have the population microchipped? Or do they just enjoy mind-#ing everyone and reveling in the chaos they create and set up, which they derive a form of "dark ecstasy" from? (a theory proposed by conspiracy researcher and podcast host Jeff Grupp)
- What do they want? Is it just about power, control and profit? Don't they have enough of that? What more do they need? Do they have a more sinister and hidden motive?
- Are the elite of all countries involved in the NWO? Or is it just the US and UK?
- Could the whole NWO thing just be a diversion? Why else would they allow millions of videos about it on YouTube and millions of websites/forums about it to stay up? Is it all part of their plan to incite us into a revolution?
- Even if a NWO or one world government succeeded, how long would it last? History has shown that Empires don't last long without public support. Not even Alexander the Great or Napoleon could hold an Empire together long term. Empires are easily toppled by a combination of many market forces. No elite group can stop that. The elite must know this. Any NWO would be short lived. So I gotta wonder what their real agenda is.
All of this is inconclusive and ambiguous. It's hard to say if there is a NWO plot or not, and if there is, what the plot is really about. The motives don't seem to make any sense.
Any thoughts or comments?
PS - Here is an interesting article someone shared with me:
www.infowars.com...
All this conspiracy stuff is too black and white, almost like a religion. The elite can't be all "evil forces of darkness" vs. us the "innocent good guys". That is too black and white, with an "us vs. them" mentality, and more like what religions preach. In reality, the world is very complex and is not that black and white. There must be some good people among the elite. They can't all be "the bad guys" like characters in some movie, can they? People in real life are not all good or all bad (like in the movies); they are a mixture of the two.
It's also hard to believe that so many people could be in on something and agree to it. In reality, it's very hard to get a lot of people to all agree without dissent to being in on the same agenda, especially people in power and high places since these types are used to getting their way, not being told what to do. The elite have very big egos, so imagine how much harder it would be to get them to all agree on some secret agenda.
Humans tend to fight and disagree, especially since they are governed by an innate moral conscience which is both in their DNA and in the "morphic resonance" energy field (coined by Rupert Sheldrake) that all living things share. It's too far fetched to believe that these "shadow elite" are all some collective hive mind that is plotting sinister things against the world, as though they were all "minions of the dark side of the Force".
Nevertheless, conspiracies do exist. The only question is: What kind of conspiracies exist? Are we talking about a secret Illuminati NWO one world government agenda? Or just corrupt politicians seeking power and wealth? Is there a fantastic conspiracy involving UFO's, Aliens and secret technology? Or just politicians with mundane dirty secrets involving money laundering scams, under the table deals, arms deals, sex scandals, and other mundane types of unethical behavior, lies and cover ups?
Also, is every country in on this? Or just the US elite? It's too far fetched to believe that the governments of all 200 countries of the world would all agree to be in on something.
All we know for sure are:
- The media and government often lie and fabricate things.
- There is definitely a shadow government that works outside of the democratic process and public scrutiny, to implement big changes that the elite think tanks want that would take too long if the public were involved. The Iran Contra Scandal revealed that shadow governments do exist. This shadow government is involved in a lot of sinister operations, but for what purpose, we don't know.
- The US military industrial complex and elite class, or whoever runs the USA (it's certainly not the common people), are definitely war mongerers who have a history and pattern of starting ridiculous unnecessary wars that don't make sense. (e.g. Vietnam, Iraq, etc.)They do not tell the public the truth about why they start them, but only give BS copout excuses that don't add up. So we can only speculate and guess on their true motives. All we know for sure is that they love getting involved with wars for some reason. Whatever their true reasons are, they are likely to be very disturbing.
- Too many important figures who would have changed the world for the better had they lived, have been murdered by too many lone nut cases (e.g. JFK, RFK, MLK, John Lennon). Had JFK and RFK lived, the Vietnam War would probably have never happened, millions of lives would have been saved, people would trust their government more, and the CIA/Federal Reserve/Military Industrial Complex (which Eisenhower warned about) may not have hijacked the USA as it has today. So two lone nuts changed the tide of world history for the worse? Yeah right.
Also, if Ralph Nader didn't cost Al Gore the election in 2000, the War on Terror may have never happened, since Al Gore is not a war monger type. (assuming of course, that the election was real and that Gore really wanted to win)
- The formation of the European Union and attempt to create a North American Union as well, are indicators of a NWO plan, since the formation of these unions would be a logical step they would take in order to consolidate power into an eventual one world government.
However, the key unanswered questions are:
- What is the true agenda of the elite? Are they really seeking to establish a NWO and one world government and have the population microchipped? Or do they just enjoy mind-#ing everyone and reveling in the chaos they create and set up, which they derive a form of "dark ecstasy" from? (a theory proposed by conspiracy researcher and podcast host Jeff Grupp)
- What do they want? Is it just about power, control and profit? Don't they have enough of that? What more do they need? Do they have a more sinister and hidden motive?
- Are the elite of all countries involved in the NWO? Or is it just the US and UK?
- Could the whole NWO thing just be a diversion? Why else would they allow millions of videos about it on YouTube and millions of websites/forums about it to stay up? Is it all part of their plan to incite us into a revolution?
- Even if a NWO or one world government succeeded, how long would it last? History has shown that Empires don't last long without public support. Not even Alexander the Great or Napoleon could hold an Empire together long term. Empires are easily toppled by a combination of many market forces. No elite group can stop that. The elite must know this. Any NWO would be short lived. So I gotta wonder what their real agenda is.
All of this is inconclusive and ambiguous. It's hard to say if there is a NWO plot or not, and if there is, what the plot is really about. The motives don't seem to make any sense.
Any thoughts or comments?
PS - Here is an interesting article someone shared with me:
www.infowars.com...
reply posted on 5-2-2012 @ 02:00 PM by Ittabena
reply to post by WWu777
You do bring up some good points. Although I must take issue with your "lone nut" assassin idea. Indeed, it was the assassination of JFK that drew me into this "conspiratorial" journey.
Someone once said - I think it was Webster Tarpley, or Max Kaiser - that if this whole class warfare thing were accidental they would occasionally make a mistake in our favor.
Something else to think about. Have you ever played a Sid Meier game such as Alpa Centauri or Civilization? You build your cities and your workers and your armies. Then something horrible happens, peace breaks out in the game. I am a Taoist/Buddhist in my beliefs, however when you have the war machine completed and there is no one really deserving to turn it loose on you feel like you have a new toy that you cannot use. You are itching to though! Isn't this proof then of the old adage "absolute power corrupts, absolutely"? Of course it is only a game, and no one is really hurt when you attack a country for it's resources. But wouldn't access to that much unbridled power and the ability to use it and spin public opinion be a great temptation? And if that temptation is given into, and you as the one in control were successfully insulated from seeing the results first hand, would you not begin to see that as a game as well?
BTW, I like the article you linked, even if it was picked up by Infowars.
You do bring up some good points. Although I must take issue with your "lone nut" assassin idea. Indeed, it was the assassination of JFK that drew me into this "conspiratorial" journey.
Someone once said - I think it was Webster Tarpley, or Max Kaiser - that if this whole class warfare thing were accidental they would occasionally make a mistake in our favor.
Something else to think about. Have you ever played a Sid Meier game such as Alpa Centauri or Civilization? You build your cities and your workers and your armies. Then something horrible happens, peace breaks out in the game. I am a Taoist/Buddhist in my beliefs, however when you have the war machine completed and there is no one really deserving to turn it loose on you feel like you have a new toy that you cannot use. You are itching to though! Isn't this proof then of the old adage "absolute power corrupts, absolutely"? Of course it is only a game, and no one is really hurt when you attack a country for it's resources. But wouldn't access to that much unbridled power and the ability to use it and spin public opinion be a great temptation? And if that temptation is given into, and you as the one in control were successfully insulated from seeing the results first hand, would you not begin to see that as a game as well?
BTW, I like the article you linked, even if it was picked up by Infowars.
edit on 5-2-2012 by Ittabena because: (no reason given)
edit on 5-2-2012 by Ittabena because: (no reason
given)
edit on 5-2-2012 by Ittabena because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 5-2-2012 @ 02:13 PM by Drezden
reply to post by WWu777
You are confused I think. When people use the term "elite" they aren't talking about every politician and millionaire. They are referring to the extremely tiny amount of very influential and wealthy people who use their influences on government policies to push for illegal wars, the elimination of borders, central banks in countries that don't have nor want them..etc. Then those central banks they instal can join the majority of the world in the bank of international settlements.. a central bank for the central banks of the world. For example, the 200 or so people who attend the Bilderberg meeting each year.
These people do not have your best interest at heart. They believe it is their right to shape the world and make choices that affect all of us. They don't care about the death/destruction/poverty that results from their secret club house meetings. Let's not forget the little discussion that took place at Bohemian Grove a few decades ago about something called the atomic bomb. It's shocking that the highest in media, business, and government all come together to discuss plans for the future. They should NEVER be meeting together to discuss things in secret.
Obviously they are up to know good or they would not go to such great lengths to conceal their discussions and use tax payer money for the highest security for their illegal secret meetings with foreign politicians. This is black and white. Media should be the watchdog of government and corporations instead of being their tool and mouth piece. Government should not be used as a tool by corporations to boost their profits. It's disgusting and abhorrent.
This is pretty black and white.
You are confused I think. When people use the term "elite" they aren't talking about every politician and millionaire. They are referring to the extremely tiny amount of very influential and wealthy people who use their influences on government policies to push for illegal wars, the elimination of borders, central banks in countries that don't have nor want them..etc. Then those central banks they instal can join the majority of the world in the bank of international settlements.. a central bank for the central banks of the world. For example, the 200 or so people who attend the Bilderberg meeting each year.
These people do not have your best interest at heart. They believe it is their right to shape the world and make choices that affect all of us. They don't care about the death/destruction/poverty that results from their secret club house meetings. Let's not forget the little discussion that took place at Bohemian Grove a few decades ago about something called the atomic bomb. It's shocking that the highest in media, business, and government all come together to discuss plans for the future. They should NEVER be meeting together to discuss things in secret.
Obviously they are up to know good or they would not go to such great lengths to conceal their discussions and use tax payer money for the highest security for their illegal secret meetings with foreign politicians. This is black and white. Media should be the watchdog of government and corporations instead of being their tool and mouth piece. Government should not be used as a tool by corporations to boost their profits. It's disgusting and abhorrent.
This is pretty black and white.
edit on 2/5/2012 by Drezden because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 6-2-2012 @ 01:03 PM by The GUT
reply to post by WWu777
Yes, I think that is how it is basically played out. The "shaping forces" if you will, these other-dimensional beings we are inextricably tied to, effect and affect us in subtle ways most of the time.
In other cases, folk willingly open themselves up to these so-called 'higher-intelligences' and then their communication and ability to control mankind becomes a little more coherent.
More of a communication and collusion back and forth between man & spirit beings at that level. If there is a NWO it's run by what I can only refer to as Mages.
After all, I believe the following quote about magic(k) is the very best there is even if from a scoundrel.
Crowley's definition of Magick as "the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will."
Requires no supernatural component, but only psychology and willpower...but that's not to negate it's supernatural side either.
Serious Occultists--and I think the halls of power are full of them--absolutely believe they can communicate with--and command--higher-intelligences if you will, demons to others yuk-yuk.
Yes, Virginia, if there is an NWO it's being stage-managed by the light-bringer.
Great discussion here regardless of personal beliefs/differences about who is behind it all.
Edit to Add:
A Classic to Consider This Overshadowed Planetwww.conspiracyarchive.com...
Yes, I think that is how it is basically played out. The "shaping forces" if you will, these other-dimensional beings we are inextricably tied to, effect and affect us in subtle ways most of the time.
In other cases, folk willingly open themselves up to these so-called 'higher-intelligences' and then their communication and ability to control mankind becomes a little more coherent.
More of a communication and collusion back and forth between man & spirit beings at that level. If there is a NWO it's run by what I can only refer to as Mages.
After all, I believe the following quote about magic(k) is the very best there is even if from a scoundrel.
Crowley's definition of Magick as "the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will."
Requires no supernatural component, but only psychology and willpower...but that's not to negate it's supernatural side either.
Serious Occultists--and I think the halls of power are full of them--absolutely believe they can communicate with--and command--higher-intelligences if you will, demons to others yuk-yuk.
Yes, Virginia, if there is an NWO it's being stage-managed by the light-bringer.
Great discussion here regardless of personal beliefs/differences about who is behind it all.
Edit to Add:
“The name of the game is 'Find Your Adversary'. Your adversary's game plan is to convince you that he does not exist.” - William S. Burroughs
A Classic to Consider This Overshadowed Planetwww.conspiracyarchive.com...
edit on 6-2-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 12-2-2012 @ 07:52 AM by rottensociety
reply to post by WWu777
Perhaps it is more difficult to understand them, if you are not from Europe. Over here you can get a real sense of their secretive and mysterious lives from their old buildings, as well as the huge difference between "us" and "them". For example, Portugal is full of history of the Knights. One of their former houses in Sintra, Portugal, called "Quinta de Regaleira" is particularly unnerving:
static.panoramio.com...
thepinkertones.files.wordpress.com...
It really is surreal. It has underground caves, hidden pathways and entrances, hidden symbols, secret doors, strange statues, creepy gargoyles and this initiation well:
www.portugalvirtual.pt...
"Palace de Pena" is nearby on the same Ley-line:
www.travelblog.org...
There's a good photo on this site that shows the buildings on the Ley-line very clearly:
www.ask.com...
It is actually like being in a horror film and you can get a real sense of the mentality of these people - of their seriousness and of how downright formidable and intimidating they are. It's very clear that this acts as an effective control of its members. However, I doubt it is often necessary as every member is chosen carefully and is only aware of certain information depending on where they are in the hierarchy.
You said that it must be hard to get people in high power to agree but one has to be a member to get in high power in the first place. They destroy all competition eventually when it suits them - just look at what they did to Barings Bank.
Then there are other ways they make people "agree". They keep "dirt" on their members, recordings of sexual deviances, drug addictions, etc. Or they just invent it - mud sticks, and high powered people don't want all that coming out in public, just ask Strauss-Kahn. He got too big for his boots in France and look how they controlled him - arrested and humiliated. He won't be President of France now, will he?!
Perhaps there are "some good people amongst the elite" as you say, but expressing that could cost them their careers, families or even their lives.
Is every country involved? I think the situation now is dire and every country has been infiltrated and is controlled in some way, otherwise they wouldn't feel so confident about coming out with the truth now. They've had control in Scotland/England and the USA for centuries, then they used the First World War to destroy all the powerful German families and caused a "revolution" to take Germany, which failed, then they lost Russia to Stalin. One of "Them" was interrogated by Stalin's police and confessed a lot of important information. His name was Rakovsky and the interrogation is in "Red Symphony":
www.bibliotecapleyades.net...
I think it's invaluable reading and explains everything about Marx and how Communism and Capitalism are being used very clearly.
Also, you can learn a lot about these people knowing that they are atheists but follow the teachings of Spinoza:
www.philosophypages.com...
To answer your key questions:
Yes, they have a very clear agenda - to "streamline" the world's population, mix the races, reduce the differences between men and women, reduce the age of puberty, reduce the age of "old age", have intelligent "Alphas" at the top and stupid "Deltas" to do all the mundane work. The higher in the hierarchy will psychologically not want to mix with the lower levels. The New World Order is all about psychological control so people are "happy" being slaves. It's diabolical but really very clever. It has potential to last forever as people will be too separate to organise themselves (hell, we can't even organise ourselves now!) and it is certainly conducive to a more progressive society where all the wealth and resources saved, will mean that we can start investigating and populating space much, much sooner than we ever would otherwise. For some reason, they are obsessed with going into space. This reason may be that they are the keepers of the information that Earth was visited thousands of years ago, I can only speculate, but I certainly don't believe in modern UFO stories.
I think your observation that the internet is flooded with NWO videos as a "diversion" to cause a revolution is correct. The internet itself is a means to an end. They will need a revolution to take full control just as they did famously in Russia. Firstly the people take over, mess it up and in all the confusion, "They" take power in the second revolution. They rely on the stupidity of the "homo-stultum" which they themselves have created through television, films and school-books. How they must be laughing at us...
Perhaps it is more difficult to understand them, if you are not from Europe. Over here you can get a real sense of their secretive and mysterious lives from their old buildings, as well as the huge difference between "us" and "them". For example, Portugal is full of history of the Knights. One of their former houses in Sintra, Portugal, called "Quinta de Regaleira" is particularly unnerving:
static.panoramio.com...
thepinkertones.files.wordpress.com...
It really is surreal. It has underground caves, hidden pathways and entrances, hidden symbols, secret doors, strange statues, creepy gargoyles and this initiation well:
www.portugalvirtual.pt...
"Palace de Pena" is nearby on the same Ley-line:
www.travelblog.org...
There's a good photo on this site that shows the buildings on the Ley-line very clearly:
www.ask.com...
It is actually like being in a horror film and you can get a real sense of the mentality of these people - of their seriousness and of how downright formidable and intimidating they are. It's very clear that this acts as an effective control of its members. However, I doubt it is often necessary as every member is chosen carefully and is only aware of certain information depending on where they are in the hierarchy.
You said that it must be hard to get people in high power to agree but one has to be a member to get in high power in the first place. They destroy all competition eventually when it suits them - just look at what they did to Barings Bank.
Then there are other ways they make people "agree". They keep "dirt" on their members, recordings of sexual deviances, drug addictions, etc. Or they just invent it - mud sticks, and high powered people don't want all that coming out in public, just ask Strauss-Kahn. He got too big for his boots in France and look how they controlled him - arrested and humiliated. He won't be President of France now, will he?!
Perhaps there are "some good people amongst the elite" as you say, but expressing that could cost them their careers, families or even their lives.
Is every country involved? I think the situation now is dire and every country has been infiltrated and is controlled in some way, otherwise they wouldn't feel so confident about coming out with the truth now. They've had control in Scotland/England and the USA for centuries, then they used the First World War to destroy all the powerful German families and caused a "revolution" to take Germany, which failed, then they lost Russia to Stalin. One of "Them" was interrogated by Stalin's police and confessed a lot of important information. His name was Rakovsky and the interrogation is in "Red Symphony":
www.bibliotecapleyades.net...
I think it's invaluable reading and explains everything about Marx and how Communism and Capitalism are being used very clearly.
Also, you can learn a lot about these people knowing that they are atheists but follow the teachings of Spinoza:
www.philosophypages.com...
To answer your key questions:
Yes, they have a very clear agenda - to "streamline" the world's population, mix the races, reduce the differences between men and women, reduce the age of puberty, reduce the age of "old age", have intelligent "Alphas" at the top and stupid "Deltas" to do all the mundane work. The higher in the hierarchy will psychologically not want to mix with the lower levels. The New World Order is all about psychological control so people are "happy" being slaves. It's diabolical but really very clever. It has potential to last forever as people will be too separate to organise themselves (hell, we can't even organise ourselves now!) and it is certainly conducive to a more progressive society where all the wealth and resources saved, will mean that we can start investigating and populating space much, much sooner than we ever would otherwise. For some reason, they are obsessed with going into space. This reason may be that they are the keepers of the information that Earth was visited thousands of years ago, I can only speculate, but I certainly don't believe in modern UFO stories.
I think your observation that the internet is flooded with NWO videos as a "diversion" to cause a revolution is correct. The internet itself is a means to an end. They will need a revolution to take full control just as they did famously in Russia. Firstly the people take over, mess it up and in all the confusion, "They" take power in the second revolution. They rely on the stupidity of the "homo-stultum" which they themselves have created through television, films and school-books. How they must be laughing at us...
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