What is the best form of interstellar communication?

Quantum entanglement will solve this problem,

two electrons linked and then seperated great distances, spin left = 0 spin right = 1,

Quantum entanglement is a form of quantum superposition. When a measurement is made and it causes one member of such a pair to take on a definite value (e.g., clockwise spin), the other member of this entangled pair will at any subsequent time[7] be found to have taken the appropriately correlated value (e.g., counterclockwise spin). Thus, there is a correlation between the results of measurements performed on entangled pairs, and this correlation is observed even though the entangled pair may have been separated by arbitrarily large distances.

if we can send 1's and 0's over great distances faster than the speed of light.. well you have your phone to E.T

Originally posted by artistpoet
reply to post by flexy123

 

I know it does not sound scientific but I think you are on the right track.
The body limits us when viewed in a soul or spirit or other dimension.
Though science has not yet proved the existence of the soul does not mean it is not real.

........Waits for the flack

Science is bound not be able to "prove" such things a this time since we get into different realms where THOSE laws of science are not applicable. UNLESS science would transform some day in the future and those things would make it into science and get accepted and become part of science.

Science cannot explain things like precognition, astral travel, "prophecies", dreams which become true, credible ghost stories or stories of reincarnation etc..and there is simply more than what science currently covers. And other civilizations might know about such things already, their "science" can be totally different from ours and they might be already able to master such things which are still "too far out" for us.

Originally posted by Sachyriel
reply to post by cloudyday

 

Colonizing another planet would probably be the best way to get new materials here on Earth to start repairing hundreds of generations of environmental mismanagement. We would not be able to lift ourselves up without tugging on our bootstraps; giving high-tech materials to the colony in return for the colonies larger amount of easily accessed raw materials would help Earth send the Colony more high-tech materials and stave off ecological and economic collapse.

Dune had a reason for Spice, but Earth doesn't need spice, we need raw materials to make Earth work as it used to once we start to leave it; leave it as we found it, so to speak.

Hopefully our civilization will start recycling more so there is less trash, less mining, etc. Government might need to start taxing trash and subsidizing recycling to make it happen. Even if the Earth became a huge garbage dump with contaminated water and air, it would probably be cheaper to mine the garbage piles and clean up the environment than it would be to go elsewhere for resources - even going to the moon for resources is probably more expensive than the most ridiculous superfund-style environment clean-up.

Of course getting resources from another star is even more costly. According to this link, the Daedalus Project interstellar probe was estimated to cost $100 trillion - yes, 10^14 in 1970s dollars. Who knows what it will really cost, but it's probably too expensive for sending raw resources.
Costs of an interstellar probe

Originally posted by Quantum_Squirrel
Quantum entanglement will solve this problem,

two electrons linked and then seperated great distances, spin left = 0 spin right = 1,

Quantum entanglement is a form of quantum superposition. When a measurement is made and it causes one member of such a pair to take on a definite value (e.g., clockwise spin), the other member of this entangled pair will at any subsequent time[7] be found to have taken the appropriately correlated value (e.g., counterclockwise spin). Thus, there is a correlation between the results of measurements performed on entangled pairs, and this correlation is observed even though the entangled pair may have been separated by arbitrarily large distances.

if we can send 1's and 0's over great distances faster than the speed of light.. well you have your phone to E.T

How would that work in detail? For each bit of communication do you need to entangle a particle and deliver it to a distant star so that you would need to send trillions of these particles? (Sorry I'm sure this is a dumb question.)

reply to post by cloudyday


It's hard to speculate on tech we have not yet achieved.

Perhaps the quantum states of entangled particles.

The higher the frequency of the carrier,the more data can be encoded, so perhaps using more conventional systems, gamma ray beams? (Gamma lasers anyone?).

Originally posted by chr0naut
reply to post by cloudyday

 

It's hard to speculate on tech we have not yet achieved.

Perhaps the quantum states of entangled particles.

The higher the frequency of the carrier,the more data can be encoded, so perhaps using more conventional systems, gamma ray beams? (Gamma lasers anyone?).

Here is a link to an article about laser communication. Apparently the beam is easy to keep focused into one solar system - even over 1000 light years distance. (So the signal would hit the target solar system with the colony and would not hit anything else until it is too weak to measure above the noise.) The article also says the library of congress could be transmitted in a few minutes, so that would be plenty of capacity to keep the two civilizations linked culturally.
Lighting the way – optical SETI

Paper cups and strings. Seriously man, those things are flawless.

I've heard of theories that since at a quantum mechanical level, some particles can be detected in two places at once, that this could possibly be used to transmit information faster than the speed of light. I don't know how it could be fine tuned to reach from solar system to solar system or whatever, but it's an interesting thought.

reply to post by cloudyday

I know you didn't ask me but.
The idea would be to send a bunch of particles or whatever (diamond is latest they are using), and have it retain entanglement forever or at least a few hundred years, currently it only retains it for 7000 femtoseconds.

Then we would be able to communicate with that planet once the batch arrives.

Also I read something about remote entanglement (entangling 2 things while they are still apart) if that can be done, then a few minutes (or even seconds) of entanglement retainment could work. As they could be repeatedly entangled.

Quantum entanglement would probably be more efficient than lasers or some kind of radio waves. Just a thought.

reply to post by cloudyday

^^ yeah what that guy said
quantum entangled communication. Dont Darpa have that already?

reply to post by Phage


Could you not use quantaum Entalgment combined with the Quataum computing being worked on just no, to essentiallhave two computers that are one? shared across the universe.

reply to post by GonzoSinister

In a word; no.

You can start with the problem that entangled particles are created at the same time and place. You'd have to physically transport one of the pair to its destination (at something less than the speed of light). But even then you have the same problem, read the state of a particle and you will change it so you have a problem at both the transmitting end and the receiving end.

There is also that annoying problem with causality. Instantaneous communication would violate it.

reply to post by cloudyday


With their MINDS!

WE are the best form of communication to anywhere, at any time

reply to post by Phage


i suppose the resolution would be counter productive if we had to transport one of the two machine there anyway...


and if we bending our views on physics....

lets just bend space.... stargate stylee...

been up all night fixing computers in malaysia, brain is now fried and wasnt thinking about things like... physics correctly... as ever phage well done!

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by GonzoSinister

 

In a word; no.

You can start with the problem that entangled particles are created at the same time and place. You'd have to physically transport one of the pair to its destination (at something less than the speed of light). But even then you have the same problem, read the state of a particle and you will change it so you have a problem at both the transmitting end and the receiving end.

There is also that annoying problem with causality. Instantaneous communication would violate it.

edit on 2/6/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Phage usually you give very good responses, but this was not it.
the receiving/transmitting station would be taken along on the first trip there, the problem is communication on the way there, and communication once they have reached there.

and no you don't have to take the particle there, not anymore that is.
www.sciencedaily.com...

The team of Professor Rempe has now taken this hurdle by preparing two atomic quantum systems located in two different laboratories in an entangled state: on the one hand a single rubidium atom trapped inside an optical resonator formed by two highly reflective mirrors, on the other hand an ensemble of hundreds of thousands of ultracold rubidium atoms which form a Bose Einstein condensate (BEC). In a BEC, all particles have the same quantum properties so that they all act as a single "superatom."

so they have been entangled while in different laboratories, not transported there after the fact.
Granted they needed the fibre optic cable which one wont find in space, but once again, when one particle is on the way offplanet with one particle (or a set of particles) communication could be used to entange even more particles.

instead of using a fibre optic cable, the photon's state (of a new particle) could be read at transmitter and transmitted to the receiver, where a new photon of exactly the same configuration could be used to entange the other particle.

Also they are now using diamonds.
www.newscientist.com... ngled-diamonds-blur-quantumclassical-divide.html

They only last for 7000 femtoseconds but they are working on improving that. and getting it correct every single time in 200 trillion trials is well a feat in itself.
also the problem of changing the state when reading, well you end up changing the state but then you already have the data, sure it could lead to some problems but nothing that cannot be solved.

The technology is very long way away, but no longer in the science fiction area, now its real science.

Also I have no idea how FTL communication or even FTL travel would violate casuality. As far as I know they will not, unless you start moving backwards in time after hitting FTL, but that has never been shown to happen, also we haven't gone FTL yet, I suppose we will get to that problem when we come to it.

Also I must say this, most people here seem to be missing this, I'll admit I did too.

quantum entanglement is not FTL communication.

It is instantaneous communication, but not FTL, even if it takes 0 seconds over 10 light years, the reason is that the data never passes through the space in between the transmitter and the receiver, it disappears from transmitter and appears at receiver, thus distance is 0m, even if the stations are 10 light years away.

I would think ,if possible to put information within a subatomic particle / neutrinos , one could send information faster then the speed of light?

Originally posted by dannotz
reply to post by cloudyday

 

With their MINDS!

WE are the best form of communication to anywhere, at any time

I could not agree more
Unleash Human potential

Originally posted by kaleshchand

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by GonzoSinister

 

In a word; no.

You can start with the problem that entangled particles are created at the same time and place. You'd have to physically transport one of the pair to its destination (at something less than the speed of light). But even then you have the same problem, read the state of a particle and you will change it so you have a problem at both the transmitting end and the receiving end.

There is also that annoying problem with causality. Instantaneous communication would violate it.

edit on 2/6/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Phage usually you give very good responses, but this was not it.
the receiving/transmitting station would be taken along on the first trip there, the problem is communication on the way there, and communication once they have reached there.

and no you don't have to take the particle there, not anymore that is.
www.sciencedaily.com...

The team of Professor Rempe has now taken this hurdle by preparing two atomic quantum systems located in two different laboratories in an entangled state: on the one hand a single rubidium atom trapped inside an optical resonator formed by two highly reflective mirrors, on the other hand an ensemble of hundreds of thousands of ultracold rubidium atoms which form a Bose Einstein condensate (BEC). In a BEC, all particles have the same quantum properties so that they all act as a single "superatom."

so they have been entangled while in different laboratories, not transported there after the fact.
Granted they needed the fibre optic cable which one wont find in space, but once again, when one particle is on the way offplanet with one particle (or a set of particles) communication could be used to entange even more particles.

instead of using a fibre optic cable, the photon's state (of a new particle) could be read at transmitter and transmitted to the receiver, where a new photon of exactly the same configuration could be used to entange the other particle.

Also they are now using diamonds.
www.newscientist.com... ngled-diamonds-blur-quantumclassical-divide.html

They only last for 7000 femtoseconds but they are working on improving that. and getting it correct every single time in 200 trillion trials is well a feat in itself.
also the problem of changing the state when reading, well you end up changing the state but then you already have the data, sure it could lead to some problems but nothing that cannot be solved.

The technology is very long way away, but no longer in the science fiction area, now its real science.

Also I have no idea how FTL communication or even FTL travel would violate casuality. As far as I know they will not, unless you start moving backwards in time after hitting FTL, but that has never been shown to happen, also we haven't gone FTL yet, I suppose we will get to that problem when we come to it.

Does each bit of communication require a freshly entangled pair of particles?

Also if light through fibre optic cable is necessary to entangle the separated particles, how would that work when the pair is separated by 20 light years?

I don't think a 20 year time lag on communication is a big deal. As long as the new ideas get there eventually then the two civilizations can pool their creative potential.

On the other hand, if human civilization spreads to hundreds of planets in a sphere with diameter of 1000 light years, then the time lag would be more serious.

Originally posted by artistpoet

Originally posted by dannotz
reply to post by cloudyday

 

With their MINDS!

WE are the best form of communication to anywhere, at any time

I could not agree more
Unleash Human potential

I don't know about ESP. Personally, I think everything in the universe obeys physical laws; there is nothing metaphysical. So if ESP exists in any meaningful way then it obeys physical laws just like everything else. In other words it is simply a force of nature like light or sound or smell. Over billions of years humans may have evolved some sensitivity to this force just like we have evolved ears and eyes.

The other idea I have considered. I think quantum mechanics uncertainty means that a creator God outside our universe can "play the sims" with everything in the universe without breaking any physical laws or leaving any clues that he exists. So ESP and similar things could just be a result of the will of God acting through quantum mechanics to steer fate in the desired direction. All us humans are just slaves to fate with no free will or actual metaphysical existence.