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Chemtrail Believer Since 2011

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posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 11:48 PM
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And the typical peeing match ensues here on ATS in another thread about geo-engineering.

What a surprise to see the same people involved (yet again)

I'm going to post these two links over and over and over again.
The MOST skeptical person would at the very LEAST have to raise an eyebrow here:



www.scribd.com...

Page 4 : The Summary of the Invention

"....such materials can include the class of materials known as Welsback materials. the OXIDES OF METAL (emphasis mine) eg., ALUMINUM OXIDE (again) are also suitable for the purpose..."

I always like to point out the date on that paper as well...

MARCH 1991.

Fast forward to SEPTEMBER 1 2009:

patft.uspto.gov... .&OS=PN/7582809&RS=PN/7582809

Monsanto granted patent for ALUMINUM RESISTANT SEED

Nothing to see here!!! Lets all move along! It's just vapour!!!

LIES




posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 11:54 PM
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Originally posted by HIWATT

"....such materials can include the class of materials known as Welsback materials. the OXIDES OF METAL (emphasis mine) eg., ALUMINUM OXIDE (again) are also suitable for the purpose..."

I always like to point out the date on that paper as well...

MARCH 1991.

Fast forward to SEPTEMBER 1 2009:

patft.uspto.gov... .&OS=PN/7582809&RS=PN/7582809

Monsanto granted patent for ALUMINUM RESISTANT SEED

Nothing to see here!!! Lets all move along! It's just vapour!!!

LIES


All soils are chock full of aluminum. Soil is anything from 2% to 30% aluminum, but is usually around 7%

Aluminum resistent crops are not needed because soil has too much aluminum, they are needed only in soils that are too acidic (the acid dissolves the aluminum,making it available for the plants). Adding more aluminum does nothing to change this.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Sirconspire
 


Links do not get tired - and the information in them is still current - why is it you have a problem with factual information??

I'm genuinely curious as to why people believe hucksters over facts and verifiable science.

BECAUSE GOUL, within those strange lingering vapors there very well could be something more than what science can explain away. You guys come up with the most strangest reasons for "persistent contrails". Like high bypass turbofans, NEWSFLASH that just means there's more air going into the large front fan and thus should help dissipate these so called "persistant contrails" originating from the exhaust; and higher efficiency cooler jet engines. Talk about grasping for straws. THEN contradictory to those explanations you manage to dig up what looks more like doctored up pages from 1970 miraculously covering the issues of persistent contrails. I don't believe passenger airliners are the culprits laying out the patterns. So there goes your preconceived notion of us believing the airline industry is in on it. Look I hope there isn't anything going on, I really do. But my instincts are telling me otherwise, I have always been a sky watcher, and observed planes flying high and low. When I was a kid in the 80's the skies were always blue here in So.Ca. These "persistent contrails" didn't exist.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 01:14 AM
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Originally posted by Sirconspire

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Sirconspire
 


Links do not get tired - and the information in them is still current - why is it you have a problem with factual information??

I'm genuinely curious as to why people believe hucksters over facts and verifiable science.

BECAUSE GOUL, within those strange lingering vapors there very well could be something more than what science can explain away.


Like what - ghosts??


If there is some nefarious real substance in them then it is science that will find it - through air sampling for example.

For the $50k that was spent producing a movie full of disinformatoin and false "science" they could have actually done some real testing!


You guys come up with the most strangest reasons for "persistent contrails". Like high bypass turbofans, NEWSFLASH that just means there's more air going into the large front fan and thus should help dissipate these so called "persistant contrails" originating from the exhaust; and higher efficiency cooler jet engines. Talk about grasping for straws.


Congratulations on recognising the basic facts of what constitutes a high bypass ratio - shame you didn't think it through.

With less air "being burned" and more cooling air around the outside it seems perfectly reasonable to me that the resulting central hot and moist engine exhaust gets mixed faster with the slower bypass air, so cools faster, so there is a sharper temperature drop into a smaller surrounding air volume to quickly form ice crystals. In contrast the much faster moving exhaust from a LBR or turbojet engine takes longer to cool, so the water in it gets longer to dissolve into the surrounding air.

That plus someone actually did study propulsive efficiency and found out that the HBR engines DO form contrails more readily than older ones.

So let's see - we have some guy (or girl?) stating something s/he believes to be true with no actual evidence at all.....or some people who went to a massive amount of trouble getting 3 jets into the air to study the phenomena.



Yeah - I think I'll go with the evidence rather than your rumour thanks.


THEN contradictory to those explanations you manage to dig up what looks more like doctored up pages from 1970 miraculously covering the issues of persistent contrails.


Got any actual evidence of anything being doctored...or is it just hat you don't want to believe the actual evidence??

I can show you evidence that supposedly proves that contrails exist that is doctored if you like - the hazmat/barrels picture is the most famous one - do you want to see it again??


I don't believe passenger airliners are the culprits laying out the patterns. So there goes your preconceived notion of us believing the airline industry is in on it.


Well congratulations on going against the flow - sadly for you lots of people do still believe it - KAL "caught in the act", airlines targeting Australian cities -
,

and a bunch more YT videos of airlines making chemtrails

So if it isn't airliners what is it you think is making them?


Look I hope there isn't anything going on, I really do. But my instincts are telling me otherwise,


I do not believe any human being has actual instincts regarding any trails in the sky!

And if you do not want to believe in chemtrails then don't - it is simple - there is no evidence saying they exist, and every observed behaviour of trails in the sky identified as chemtrails is consistent with the known phenomena of contrails.

If there were chemtrails then there should be a vast amount of evidence - starting with the actual material being sprayed - where is it??

It is not in the atmosphere, nothing has ever been seen being pumped into aircraft, no doctored fuel samples, no people coming forward with believable explanations of what is going on. Where are the alternative weight and balance figures for aircraft, or the different fuel supplies for those aircraft that spray vs those that do not?

If it isn't airliners then where is the massive fleet of other aircraft that is spraying it and why does almost everyone else except you think it IS airliners??

In 15 or so years - nothing.


I have always been a sky watcher, and observed planes flying high and low. When I was a kid in the 80's the skies were always blue here in So.Ca. These "persistent contrails" didn't exist.


Or you just didn't see them - I saw them in New Zealand in the 1960's when jet airliners started flying domestically there in 1968!


edit on 7-2-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 01:19 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 01:26 AM
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Originally posted by dw31243
[

You decide whether you want to be a tool & a puppet in the System. Or, if you want to be independent, fighting for the Truth about Chemtrails, Liberty & Freedom.


Glad you are finally deciding to come out on the side of truth instead of hucksters, puppeteers and disinfo - well done!




posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 01:27 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 01:35 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 01:39 AM
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reply to post by Sirconspire
 


So dropping to your level and re-pasting said documents would be a moot point because you guys think the government is your friend.

Speaking for my self I consider the government no friend of mine. I place a lot more stock in logic, reason, and evidence than the government, ignorance, fear, or speculation.

Logic, reason, evidence (and some science) tells me that the idea that there is a massive secret program to spray the atmosphere in order to do...something...is silly.
edit on 2/7/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 03:27 AM
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Originally posted by Sirconspire
reply to post by tsurfer2000h
 




There are enough of you that it shouldn't be hard to get the funds up,so get going and get that evidence.


You know darn well any such attempt in truth discovery is forbidden. By the way, I don't see you fellows posting your doctorate degrees in aeronautical engineering, meteorology, atmospheric sciences etc. to back your claims.


The links to the research contain the qualifications of the people doing the research.

I don't claim to have done the research - however I do claim to be intelligent enough to look at it and make a reasonably informed decision that it is credible, as against some guy telling me it isn't true.


That would lend a little credence to your argument.


Only if I was saying I had done actual research - and even then saying hat my qualifications were what was important is an appeal to authority - it is not the qualifications of the person that makes something true or false - it is the quality of the actual information.


People like you are in no position to bag on other members using YOUR tactics like finding videos on you tube and copy/pasting publications.


I don't bag people for posting - I bag them for telling me that what they are posting tells me something when it doesn't, or, worse, for saying that it tells me one thing when it actually says something else.

There's nothing wrong with pointing out the truth about what is being shown or written about.

Or do you prefer disinformation and inaccuracy?



There is an equal amount of evidence for your arguments as well as the chemtrailer's.


That's just ignorant.

The evidence for contrails persisting for long periods of times is in scientific studies.

The "evidence" for them not doing so and anything that does so being a chemtrail is because some guy says so.

If you think that is an equal amount of evidence then you are certainly not as open minded as you claim to be.



At any rate, you still haven't proven that there isn't anything fishy going


There is a reason this "logic" is called argument from ignorance - perhaps you should look up why it is a fallacy?



edit on 7-2-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 03:33 AM
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Originally posted by Sirconspire
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


WOW!!!
You're insistent breakdown of posts are impressive. A true artist of peddling propaganda with still no proof what you're trying to sell. You see, I have no motivation to wring out your posts and replies because it will only turn into a pissing match.


I don't believe you - I think it is because you know the facts and there's no arguing them - in fact you've studiously avoided discussing anything factual at all every post this thread - all you have done is ad hominem attacks on anyone who says that there's no evidence chemtrails exist - in every single post.

Troll much??


I know you are thoroughly versed in the chemtrail evidence dept. and all the military and gov't documents to prove it.


Really? So you know more about what I know that I actually know?

And you say that I peddle propaganda??
"@@"


So dropping to your level and re-pasting said documents would be a moot point because you guys think the government is your friend.


Again apparently you know more about what I know that I know - how is that?

I think you might be making assumptions about me just a little here - which is a bit hypocritical of you since you got all toey about me assuming something about you just a few posts ago....which I didn't actually do but never mind that.....


I'm not in the business of changing your mind or educating you


That's sure true - so far you haven't actually offered up anything at all except a refusal to accept that there is any validity to anything to do with atmospheric science and a bunch of ad hominim attacks on anyone who dares to suggest that chemtrails don't exist.

And apparently you consider yourself hopeful that there is nothing going on and think that actually discovering the truth is forbidden?? Yeah....right........better put your gas mask back on shill!




edit on 7-2-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 05:50 AM
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Originally posted by Sirconspire
contradictory to those explanations you manage to dig up what looks more like doctored up pages from 1970 miraculously covering the issues of persistent contrails. I don't believe passenger airliners are the culprits laying out the patterns. So there goes your preconceived notion of us believing the airline industry is in on it. Look I hope there isn't anything going on, I really do. But my instincts are telling me otherwise, I have always been a sky watcher, and observed planes flying high and low. When I was a kid in the 80's the skies were always blue here in So.Ca. These "persistent contrails" didn't exist.


Persistent contrails did exist. Was I seeing things during the 1970s when I was a kid growing up in Scotland? Did I not see persistent contrails when I served in the Royal Observer Corps during the 1980s and then in the Royal Air Force? Did the following people in the Timeline links not witness persistent contrails? You claim faked up reports from the 1970s. Can you explain why people still have copies of Flight Magazine dating back for example 1939 and discuss the trails? Take a look at the letters in the links from people observing persistent contrails from WW2 onwards.

Flight Magazine, Pathe News footage are a threat to those peddling the chemtrail conspiracy for money. Go over to Tanker Enemy You Tube Channel and see the laughable way that he tries to discredit the footage.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 10:55 AM
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Iv'e been reading more and more about both Chem trails and Fluoridation, and from what I understand they both seem to be forms of population control. For the first time today I noticed several planes creating what appeared to be a definitive Chem trail weave pattern over my COLLEGE CAMPUS in High Point, NC.

QUESTION: If they TPTB are subsequently exposed to the Chem trails (and Fluoride for that matter), how are they protecting themselves?



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by AdaptationNation
 


Fluoridation was introduced to the United States water supply, in many municipalities, many decades ago. Have you seen any decrease on population in the USA??

"chemtrails" do not exist....they are a myth and hoax.

Airplanes DO exist, of course....and fly in many different directions, and when they produce contrails, those lingering contrails show where the airplanes have flown, and where they have crossed paths.

Not hard to understand, and certainly not "rocket science".....



posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by AdaptationNation
 


"chemtrails" do not exist....they are a myth and hoax.



So there are no grounds to the theory that chem trails are being used to alter the atmosphere, potentially for the better?

www.guardian.co.uk...

Thoughts on this...?



posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by AdaptationNation
 

There is nothing there which, in spite of the sensationalistic tone of the op ed, indicates that geoengineering is being done.
There is a whole thread on that topic here;
www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 2/8/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by AdaptationNation
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So there are no grounds to the theory that chem trails are being used to alter the atmosphere, potentially for the better?


depends - if by "chemtrails" you mean the visible contrails given off by aircraft these days and long known as contrails, then no - or at least not much more than any other pollution.

If you mean some future programme either currently being discussed and/or researched, or at least envisioned, then probably yes.


www.guardian.co.uk...

Thoughts on this...?


It is exactly what the headline and subtitle say it is:


Bill Gates backs climate scientists lobbying for large-scale geoengineering

Other wealthy individuals have also funded a series of reports into the future use of technologies to geoengineer the climate


Lobbying, reports into future technology - advocating research and increasing of knowledge in the area.
edit on 8-2-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 06:44 PM
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This is my first post on ATS. Today I saw a chemtrail spraying operation that made me a believer. The sky was perfectly blue here in central Michigan and this morning I saw several jets heading west towards Chicago which had normal contrails that disappeared quickly. This afternoon while splitting wood I looked up and saw 2 jets heading north and flying side by side leaving dense parallel contrails. Within minutes I was amazed to see 4 jets side by side following the first two and also leaving very dense contrails. Six jets heading north in formation is interesting around here because there are no airports north of here except little Traverse City or Marquette in our Upper Penisula which have very little jet traffic. Most of our jet traffic is east/west between Detroit and Chicago. But the wind was blowing east and these chemtrails were expanding and drifting in unison towards metro Detroit.

I ran to my house to grab my camera but by the time I got back outside the jets had moved to the horizon. Believe me, they were flying in a very tight formation. I have posted the results on Flickr. No one can tell me this was normal jet traffic! By 5 p.m. the blue sky was a total white haze.

Here is a Flickr photostream of the shots I took today and some earlier ones:




posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 07:03 PM
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reply to post by VirtualAnomaly
 


Be prepared for the barrage you are about to get. I also live near Ann Arbor. Were those jets headed to or from Detroit Metro by any chance because I see alot of closer flying when they are lining up to and from there. Could explain the close flying though.



posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by VirtualAnomaly
 


A lot of air routes to/from Europe go over Michigan - looking on Flightaware right now, UAL928 from Chicago to London passed over the eastern section within the last 30 minutes or so.




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